Buying a Bull

Fat Cant

Was going to be buying a lim bull in the next few days and I was thinking how do most of yous go about buy one .
Do you buy from farmers journal , done deal etc. ?
If you do go to look at a bull would you only go off star rating , alot of lads I ring say not to mind the star rating cause its not accurate ?
If he did have a good star rating but did not look like a great bull to you or if he had a bad star rating but looked good would you buy?

Indubitable

I take a trip to the sales regardless of whether or not I buy one there so I get a sense of price etc. If I don't find a bull there I try Donedeal etc.

blue5000

Donedeal for the last one and journal before that, try get his tag no so you can look him up on icbf before you go look at him. I don't think ANY good bulls have a bad star rating! I prefer to buy privately as I operate a closed herd, I only buy in a bull for breeding. Don't forget to test him when you bring him home.

redzerologhlen

If he did have a good star rating but did not look like a great bull to you or if he had a bad star rating but looked good would you buy?[/QUOTE]

Was at a breeding demo in ennis a few years ago and I remember the woman talking saying if you buy by paper you will have to sell by post. Its a bit of a guide as much as anything else, I wouldnt go for a bull if I didnt like them in the flesh.

1chippy

Bought one last week. wasnt in the market till next year. called to a breeder just to have a nose around. ended up coming home with a beaut.He was getting him along with a couple of others ready for roscrea. take a good look at him. His data will be a good help but if you dont like the look of him for what ever reason, i wouldnt buy him.

Arrow in the Knee

The seller mighten have good Eurostars for his bulls he was trying to sell.

But if he had he would be praising the Eurostars. Regardless of accuracy!

Buy bull with above average Eurostars for what your looking for and on visual appearance.

foundation10

On the eurostars its a bit pointless looking at the bull you are buying as more than likely there will be no offspring to assess his qualities. I have a number of sires idetified within the LM breed which I tend to follow but I always choose a bull on physical shape rather than paper. As the saying goes paper never refused ink! Eurostars should only be used for a secondary opinion if you doubt yourself and are not what pepole make them oout to be all you need to do is look at the movement between one evaluation and the next on ICBF and you will see the huge flucuations on some bulls without and big movements on the data reliability % does this not say something about them.

49801

try and get herd names of potiential sellers in your area.
then put the herd name into icbf with the letter for year of birth you are interested in. I think F is for 2010 born animals. So your search becomes 'Brooklands F' for example

I found with the lm herdbook you could not select more than 3/4 traits. So I used age, sex, calving and beef.... then go through the list and select docility.
Also the filter by county just does not work. Which I found infuriating.

If you are in the cork area pm me and I'll send you an email I sent to someone else who was looking for a lm with the herd names that I went looking at.

You still have to buy with your eye's.

pakalasa

I'd be inclined to buy a bull by a well known AI sire or even better, to have the dam by a well known sire aswell. I'd try to have a good feel for the value of a bull before hand too.
Hard to buy a bull that you didn't like the look of, regardless of how many stars he might have.

blue5000

redzerologhlen wrote: »

If he did have a good star rating but did not look like a great bull to you or if he had a bad star rating but looked good would you buy?

Was at a breeding demo in ennis a few years ago and I remember the woman talking saying if you buy by paper you will have to sell by post. Its a bit of a guide as much as anything else, I wouldnt go for a bull if I didnt like them in the flesh.[/QUOTE]

Very true, but I wouldn't buy a bull without looking at the star rating. If it is accurate it's great, but if it's a load of bull then it's useless. OP don't forget you could have an ugly bull that will throw fantastic calves, don't buy a bull because he has a lovely head, heads don't make much on the hook.

Try to get a bull that will correct a fault that you may have in your cows, eg low pins or foot angle. But you can only select for one or perhaps two of these traits at a time to make an improvement in your herd overall. The more traits you select for, the slower the progress will be. For me ease of calving is very important, if you want to keep daughters from a bull then you can sacrifice a few % on ease of calving so that his daughters will be wider and hopefully better able to calve by themselves. Are you buying him as a terminal sire?

Sorry I can't help you on Lim breeding, I stay away from them as I've been stuck to a wall and walked on too many times:eek:

singasong

how much would you pay for a good quailty 18 month old charolais bull on done deal

hugo29

im in the minefield of trying to buy a stock bull, the bb is getting the door and going pbr charalois route but its mind boggling

have seen a smashing 12 month bull out of pirate and dam out of 52 (great ratings on icbf)

have seen a smashing 15 month out of ada (ratings not so good but looks the part) and a 14 month out of 52 with dam out of indurian (great ratings on icbf)

but i cant make my mind up, any help on the above would be appreciated
also what is cottage devon like claving wise

would anyone buy now and feed the above yourself over the winter or hold out until march and buy a lad ready to hit the ground running

redzerologhlen

hugo29 wrote: »

im in the minefield of trying to buy a stock bull, the bb is getting the door and going pbr charalois route but its mind boggling

have seen a smashing 12 month bull out of pirate and dam out of 52 (great ratings on icbf)

have seen a smashing 15 month out of ada (ratings not so good but looks the part) and a 14 month out of 52 with dam out of indurian (great ratings on icbf)

but i cant make my mind up, any help on the above would be appreciated
also what is cottage devon like claving wise

would anyone buy now and feed the above yourself over the winter or hold out until march and buy a lad ready to hit the ground running

Id buy now and feed yourself if you have space for him, You would be able to feed him to be fit rather than for sale.

hugo29

thats what i thought too, by space though would one of the creep pins in the shed be sufficient, i have never fed a bull up before, what amount of meal would he eat

redzerologhlen

hugo29 wrote: »

thats what i thought too, by space though would one of the creep pins in the shed be sufficient, i have never fed a bull up before, what amount of meal would he eat

He would probably eat as much as you would give him The few times we bought a youg one we just fed them with the weanlings over the winter, No sheds here but Im sure someone will set you right, welcome to boards by the way.

Bizzum

hugo29 wrote: »

have seen a smashing 12 month bull out of pirate and dam out of 52 (great ratings on icbf)

have seen a smashing 15 month out of ada (ratings not so good but looks the part) and a 14 month out of 52 with dam out of indurian (great ratings on icbf)

would anyone buy now and feed the above yourself over the winter or hold out until march and buy a lad ready to hit the ground running

A few points I would make:

The right thing to do is buy well in advance of needing the bull, so he can be managed correctly, nutritionally and otherwise.

The Eurostars are a guide, buy a bull you like the look of firstly, the stars are a bonus.

There can be a massive difference between a 12mth old and a 15mth old CH bull. Make sure you are comparing like with like!

Buy a bull with length. Nothing weighs like lenght.

52 X Indurain might not breed much size.

Best of luck with him!

hugo29

Yes my thinking is buy now and prepare him for his duty, Ada bull has great length to him, but I have to say I like the look of pirate bull,

Bizzum

If it's a close call between 2 bulls, view the dams of both and this could swing it for ya. One could be out of a super cow and the other perhaps not just as good as you'd like!

hugo29

i seen the pirate dam, first calved heifer and nothing to write home about

ADA dam was gone (culled for 2200 euro) but seen her full sister, super cow and big frame,

guess that answers that, nothing like writing it down to help make up ones mind

pakalasa

Hugo,
Maybe late if you have made up your mind but, what kind of cows have you? Would you be worried about calving problems? Had you a charolais bull before. The pirate bull might be easier calving.
I find the only downside of charolais is they are bigboned and hard calving on cows.

hugo29

I keep thinking mind made up but keep going back wondering about pirate, cows are limox simx and shorthornx all have called bb some with jack,

ted16

if your anywhere around the northeast blakestown charolais wud be worth a look for a ch bull.have seen great calves from der bulls.

bogman_bass

are you planning on keeping replacements? if so 52 X Indurain wont have enough milk for a cup of tea!

hugo29

no the bull is for terminal purposes only, just want a lad that the cows can fart out the calf and that will give me a decent return in the ring

bb was a disaster this year, been a while since i used ai so not up to speed with the current charlaois, had used pirate, mogador and Limklin Bosco and 52 previously and found them great calves

Muckit

hugo29 wrote: »

no the bull is for terminal purposes only, just want a lad that the cows can fart out the calf and that will give me a decent return in the ring

bb was a disaster this year, been a while since i used ai so not up to speed with the current charlaois, had used pirate, mogador and Limklin Bosco and 52 previously and found them great calves

Nothing wrong with the bulls you've named out there

hugo29

wonder could ya mix them all up in one straw and away ya go, interesting to see what would come out

Bizzum

hugo29 wrote: »

wonder could ya mix them all up in one straw and away ya go, interesting to see what would come out

Not as strange as you may think! It has been done, with different breeds and I think from memory slightly improved conception rates!

bogman_bass

ABS in the uk do a lot of that. usually an angus, hereford and belgian blue in the one straw for using on dairy cows

blue5000

bogman_bass wrote: »

ABS in the uk do a lot of that. usually an angus, hereford and belgian blue in the one straw for using on dairy cows

Slops?:D:D:D

pakalasa

Bit of a Lucky Dip.
My AI guy started giving two straws of different breeds to our cows a couple of years back when a good lot would not hold in calf. Looking back, I think it was a mineral defieciency that caused it.

Black Smoke

bogman_bass wrote: »

are you planning on keeping replacements? if so 52 X Indurain wont have enough milk for a cup of tea!

That's always the natural assumption especially with cows whic have CF52 in the blood.
I have a few like that. 2 are 50% CF52 and a few are 25% CF52. All have a small dash of shorthorn from back in the day.
None of them have the appearance of milk, but they produce calves at a year old, as good or better than milkier cows around the place.
I reckon anything with 52 breeding will weigh well for age!! Could be talking rubbish however -:)