Use Classes and mixed use

mercuryfrost

Hi all,

I'm looking to set up a shop that sells speciality coffee and related beans and equipment.

The landlord attempted to secure planning for a restaurant a few years ago and failed. I have consulted Cork City council and am confident a change of use would be successful in my case.

The landlord however does not want any change of use on the premises. (not sure why)


In a nutshell...

The premises is currently classed as retail.
Our venture could be defined as both retail and coffeeshop in nature.

Is there a (albeit) fine line I can tread with sale of coffee to keep it classed as retail, and keep the landlord and council happy?

I am awaiting a response from Cork City Council as regards class and primary use issues.

Any ideas or input welcome!

rayjdav

Would your proposal fall under the below Part 2 Exempted Dev. Art.5.(1)(d)? If so, no Planning is actually required if as you say the existing use is Retail. There was even an additional SI added to this Article whereby one could now sell wine products...
Any works to signage external will most probably require planning.


5. (1) In this Part—
"shop" means a structure used for any or all of the following purposes, where the sale, display or service is principally to visiting members of the public—
(a) for the retail sale of goods,
(b) as a post office,
(c) for the sale of tickets or as a travel agency,
(d) for the sale of sandwiches or other food for consumption off the premises, where the sale of such food is subsidiary to the main retail use,
(e) for hairdressing,
(f) for the display of goods for sale,
(g) for the hiring out of domestic or personal goods or articles,
(h) as a launderette or dry cleaners,
(i) for the reception of goods to be washed, cleaned or repaired,
but does not include any use associated with the provision of funeral services or as a funeral home, or as a hotel, a restaurant or a public house, or for the sale of hot food for consumption off the premises, except under paragraph (d) above, or any use to which class 2 or 3 of Part 4 of Schedule 2 applies;

mercuryfrost

Thanks for the reply


I read that. It seems to disagree with fire regulations classes, and I wasn't sure which set the council use. If you're saying the one you quoted from:
S.I. No. 600/2001 — Planning and Development Regulations, 2001

Is the one then that's potentially great news.



I guess the main thrust of my question (with that information) is how far can I push this theory.

How do I define the 'primary use' of the business.

The original plan was to have coffee sales for eat-in and take out, with a sales counter on the ground floor and seating upstairs. Food was going to be pre-made sandwiches/pastries etc.

Planning permission for signage would be fine, because as a legit tenant, I wouldn't need to landlords permission to apply (right?).

rayjdav

The Planning Department use the Planning Regs.

Any works to the unit must obviously comply with Building Regs which is where the Fire Classes etc come into play but for planning, it's this one.

Re the signage, Yes you will still need the permission of the unit owner in writing. You are just a tennant so he must give permision to works to his unit.

As you said before, Cork City Council will give you "their" definitive re uses so no point someone not from Cork, tf:D, giving you an alternative interpretation (opinion).

mercuryfrost

Thanks for all the advice!

BryanF

mercuryfrost wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm looking to set up a shop that sells speciality coffee and related beans and equipment.

The landlord attempted to secure planning for a restaurant a few years ago and failed. I have consulted Cork City council and am confident a change of use would be successful in my case.

The landlord however does not want any change of use on the premises. (not sure why)


In a nutshell...

The premises is currently classed as retail.
Our venture could be defined as both retail and coffeeshop in nature.

Is there a (albeit) fine line I can tread with sale of coffee to keep it classed as retail, and keep the landlord and council happy?

I am awaiting a response from Cork City Council as regards class and primary use issues.

Any ideas or input welcome!

imo go back to the landlord and work out what his/her issue is with your proposed change of use. you really need the landlord on-side. best of luck

mercuryfrost

Unfortunately it's through a (very apathetic) agent

cargo

If you were going for planning you would need a letter from the owner of the premises to give the ok for your application. Change of Use may be similar.

Download the form and read through it. I've never seen one so cant be sure. Same if there's a form you need to submit to declare "exempted development" make sure there's no "owner" letter required.

mercuryfrost

Hi Cargo,


Thanks for the reply. Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post.

I am looking to open a coffee shop in a retail only premises without applying for change of use. (This is due to the restrictions of the temporary (3 years) landlord and not anything else.)
I can establish the premises as a coffee equipment and ancillary supplies shop which also sells coffee it seems no problem.

I'm wondering at what point I would be pushing this into the territory of a cafe and not a shop, (ie, while I can seemingly happily sell food and drink to take away, at what point does take away become eat in, seating etc) or if in a mixed use premises, the declaration of intended business is up to me.

BryanF

mercuryfrost wrote: »

I am looking to open a coffee shop in a retail only premises without applying for change of use.

I appreciate what your asking but you can see the contradiction, prehaps an informal chat with the planners would be worth your while - they will at least offer you an opinion on where they draw the line..

(This is due to the restrictions of the temporary (3 years) landlord and not anything else.)
I can establish the premises as a coffee equipment and ancillary supplies shop which also sells coffee it seems no problem.

I'm wondering at what point I would be pushing this into the territory of a cafe and not a shop, (ie, while I can seemingly happily sell food and drink to take away, at what point does take away become eat in, seating etc) or if in a mixed use premises, the declaration of intended business is up to me.

with the introduction of seating...

my to cents - its not unheard of to have a business complain about incorrect use/zoning/rates of competitors. So In the past what I've done on behalf of clients is speak to the planners/ council without giving an exact location of formal submission, to get their steer on what's deemed expectable. You really dont want to be caught with a fit-out & stock bill and at the same time finding yourself fined and dealing with a retention application..

mercuryfrost

Yes, I see the contradiction, but I suppose the contradiction is the point

As I said, the City Council have been contacted and a planner is going to get back to me.

I agree with the seating and the competitors, good observations. Food for thought.