Valentia is now fully automatic

Su Campu

I am devastated. Valentia has become the latest victim of automation, becoming fully automatic on April 2nd. Whatever about some of the others, Valentia should surely have been kept immune to the epidemic of automation that is spreading through the Met services of the world.

Not only have we lost manned weather observations, including sunshine recordings and sea state and visibility, but the number of weather ballons sent up daily has been slashed from 4 to 2. This can only have a negative impact on the quality of model performance and forecasting.

I hate to see our stations fall victim to cuts like this. Malin Head was the last one, and I wonder will we see Belmullet and Casement go the same way? I know TUCSON stations are well advanced, but imo no technology can ever replace the art of human observing.

RIP

patneve2

Very bad news. Automatic weather stations are less reliable than manned ones for sure (Not temperature wise, but with the reporting of weather conditions)

Mothman

My sentiments exactly Su and I'm sure Belmullet will follow.

tphase

They'll put cameras in to replace eyes on the ground but a camera won't clear birdsh1t out of a rain gauge or clean the optics on the ceilometer or PWS....

Su Campu

tphase wrote: »

They'll put cameras in to replace eyes on the ground but a camera won't clear birdsh1t out of a rain gauge or clean the optics on the ceilometer or PWS....

.....or record and change the sunshine card, or make cloud quantity and type observations, or simultaneous-occuring weather reports, or snow measurements, or ground state, or frost, or directional visibilities, or...........

And I don't think they even install cameras.

tphase

Su Campu wrote: »

And I don't think they even install cameras.

they do, currently in testing phase at a couple of stations but I think it likely they will eventually be installed at all TUCSON stations

Deep Easterly

tphase wrote: »

They'll put cameras in to replace eyes on the ground but a camera won't clear birdsh1t out of a rain gauge

Or even off it's own lens..
Agree with all the sentiments above. Only a matter of time now when we have Valentia reporting snow or snow grains from late summer onwards under certain (non snowy) conditions. Gone also will be the visual reports of thunderstorms in the area.

Su Campu

Just for oul times' sake, here are the last manned observation and the first automatic report back on April 2nd.

Last manned report- 11 UTC, 2nd April

AAXX 02111 03953 41465 73402 10103 20069 30107 40143 57007 76062 875//
333 82716 87640 92417=

First Automated report - 12 UTC, 2nd April

AAXX 02121 03953 37677 /3303 10103 20070 30108 40138 58007 6//// 78185 87///
333 87/41=

The red digits mean Manned with weather type included (1) and Automated with weather type included (7).

The green digits 7 and 5 (and 6) in the manned report mean 7/8 total cloud cover and Stratocumulus as main low cloud type, respectively. Note that this info is missing in the automatic report, shown by the /.

There is also no rainfall total shown in the automated report (the 6//// group), although this looks like a teething problem and was rectified by the midnight report.

The weather-type groups are still included (76062 and 78182, respectively), though as Deep has said, these optical weather-type sensors can return curious weather in certain conditions (such as reporting Snow when thick fog is present). In this case, the manned report stated current weather as intermittent light rain, with past showers, and the automatic one gives rain showers both current and past. And as Deep also pointed out, Valentia is Ireland's thunderiest place, so there will now be no more such reports (as well as no more sunshine hours).

And also missing in the automatic report is the "sea state and visibility seawards" group (the 92417 group in the manned one).

There had been manned observations from Valentia since 1865, so it's a real chapter in history to see this come to an end. We still have 5 fully manned (Dublin, Shannon, Cork and Casement airports and Belmullet) and one part-time (Knock Airport), although Knock does not report weather-type or cloud data when automatic (at night time). I suppose we could see Belmullet be the next for the knife as the airports are more likely to remain manned for METAR purposes. At least we haven't reached the low of say New Zealand, which has a 100% automated network with NO weather-type reporting capability. Maybe they have cameras installed but weather-type is not given in any reports, so it really is a step backwards in my opinion.

Sponge Bob

Because of its history and its relatively high importance in Global Climate Modelling ( along with Armagh ) it should have been parallel run for the year and if the differences were significant it should have gone back to manual. Just to show that Met E have standards. But no.

Belmullet is 60 years old where Valentia is over 140 years old.

John mac

[QUOTE=Sponge Bob;78149925 it should have been parallel run for the year .

Belmullet is 60 years old where Valentia is over 140 years old.[/QUOTE]

do they not do that as a matter of accuracy? to make sure the machines give an acceptable level of reports.

Su Campu

I'm sure they did do it alright, but they would continue to report the manned observations until the switch.

Nabber

Where the people who monitored the stations paid?

Mothman

Nabber wrote: »

Where the people who monitored the stations paid?

They're full time Met E staff and will remain within Met E in another capacity if they choose to do so.

Deep Easterly

Mothman wrote: »

They're full time Met E staff and will remain within Met E in another capacity if they choose to do so.

Am totally ignorant when it comes to the actual cost of running and maintaining synoptic weather stations, but I am just wondering going by this is the change over to the automated station at Valentia solely down to reducing expenditure? The fact that those who manned the station over the years are still being kept on in met eireann seems to suggest not. What I mean is, was the new Tuscan station cheaper to purchase, set up, and so on than to keep the older equipment used maintained and in working order (or even replaced ) over a set period?

Put simply, what I am trying to ask is what costs are being reduced by not having that station manned since those who did man the station are still being paid, even if it is in a different capacity?

DOCARCH

They can re-assign Met staff and costs will be saved (in the short to medium term) by nutural wasteage (i.e. not having to hire new staff once people have retired).

I don't know but I'd say it takes at least 4 personel to run a manned Met station, I presume there are 3 x 8 hour shifts each 24 hours (so 3 people) + then a.n. other for holidays, sick leave, etc.?

That sort of staffing cost (or saving on staffing costs) would pay for a Tuscan station in 1 year.

Maybe in the long term we may get more Tuscan stations?

lovelyhurler

Speaking of Belmullet, that's due to go fully automatic over the summer months (June or July, I think).

Sponge Bob

Joe Public queried a missing April High in Finner.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78577396&postcount=96

I emailed met.ie and queried Finner's 15.7C and below is the answer I received.

"Finner data is not used in the Weather Summary due to a few reasons.
Over a year ago, it was changed to a Tucson type station, in which we
are currently in the process of monitoring the quality of the data.

tphase

Su Campu wrote: »

And I don't think they even install cameras.

ME forecasts last night showed off images from cameras at Mace Head and Mullingar

Sponge Bob

Mace Cam is a good idea and the TG4 Cam in Dún Chaoin will have to do instead of Valentia I suppose.

tphase

doubt ME will make the Mace Head live feeds available any time soon but there is another camera on the same site

http://macehead-webcam.nuigalway.ie:8650/

CorkMetMan

lovelyhurler wrote: »

Speaking of Belmullet, that's due to go fully automatic over the summer months (June or July, I think).

Indeed; I've heard that it's due to go fully automatic the first week in August. That will be the end as regards manned observations from synoptic stations in Ireland; only the airports will be able to give an accurate report of elements then.

Deep Easterly

CorkMetMan wrote: »

Indeed; I've heard that it's due to go fully automatic the first week in August. That will be the end as regards manned observations from synoptic stations in Ireland; only the airports will be able to give an accurate report of elements then.

There is a new station up on the Daily Data page on met.ie going by the ID '1675'. Not reporting anything as of yet but I am guessing that it might be the new automated station at Belmullet.

tphase

Deep Easterly wrote: »

There is a new station up on the Daily Data page on met.ie going by the ID '1675'. Not reporting anything as of yet but I am guessing that it might be the new automated station at Belmullet.

they can't have 2 stations reporting as Belmullet so the new one gets an ID number while they test the reporting function. Same happened with Valentia

Sponge Bob

I have no problem with a 1950s era station like Belmullet going automatic but I still think Valentia should be a manned observatory given its historic importance in Climatology.

CorkMetMan

Belmullet is due to go fully automatic as of 11am local time today, August 8th. The end of an era, not just for that station, but for synoptic stations in Ireland.

Su Campu

CorkMetMan wrote: »

Belmullet is due to go fully automatic as of 11am local time today, August 8th. The end of an era, not just for that station, but for synoptic stations in Ireland.

Yes only 4 fully manned stations left at the main airports plus the part time Knock. Still a further step in the wrong direction if you ask me.

Mothman

Assuming Belmullet(A) is 1675, Which station is 2375?

Belmullet(A) reporting 25C at moment.