I'm pissed off at deeply religious people!

1ZRed

I got drawn into a thread about about a priest being investigated for his liberal views and so I gave my opinion. Granted it was from the perspective of an atheist but I wanted to make my views known for the sake of a more balanced argument.
I got called a "badly raised self obsessed little boy" because I defended my right to seek equality in the eyes of society without religion condemning me for it.
The thread got locked because it went off topic. Would you think I was justified in my argument though?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056598480&page=14

I admit I was very biased starting off but then I was more interested in defending my right to have sex and fall in love with a man or woman without being looked down on for doing so.

Conor30

Few things:

Firstly, I didn't follow that thread. However, in my opinion, Irish people generally can't discuss or debate religious topics very maturely. I'm not surprised the thread got locked. Everyone is entitled to convey their view in such a thread and even atheists have a valuable contribution to make to religious discourse. I'm sure what you said was perfectly fine!

Secondly, David Quinn thinks that allowing married and/or women priests won't help the Church. Perhaps not. But this is more a result of religion becoming increasingly irrelevant in western democratic, modern societies anyway, no matter what they do. At least by allowing married and women priests, an increasingly irrelevant Church will still better reflect, and serve, our modern, more mature society.

As for homosexuality being wrong in a Christian context, there is simply NO SUPPORT for this anti-gay stance in the Bible! Jesus never said anything against gay people. Jesus is the New Testament and He was 'improving' on the Old Testament of which Leviticus is a part. How could homosexuality be an abomination? An abomination? Based on what? The text of a predominantly historically inaccurate scripture which conveys the hilarious idea that our world is about 6,000 years old (if taken literally)? Instead of using logic and reason, some people would rather resort to following like a sheep a doctrine which glorifies the demoralisation of women and the abhorrent misrepresentation of the orgin of the entire cosmos! As for Leviticus, he also said the following:

"Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19), Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27), Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9), People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)."
In any case, Leviticus has been completely MISUNDERSTOOD!! Medicine333 quoted Leviticus in that locked thread. This has to be one of the most misunderstood quotes ever lifted from the Bible and routinely used to bash gays. Anyone who uses that against gays simply doesn't understand the complexity of the Bible and is basically ignorant. It's completely taken out of context. This youtube video explains it better than I ever could:

1ZRed

I tried to be logical in my argument by using scientific explanations to things and I made the point of the earth being 3+ billion years old as apposed to 6k but they demanded facts to prove it yet they wouldn't give me any in return.
They were incapable of seeing things from my point of view and even accused me of "using women and spreading STDs and depression" because I'm having sex and they are not until marriage. (I hope I'm not that bad in bed to spread depression!:D haha)

I said that all my friends and young people I know don't care for religion but amazingly again, I was in the minority. Eh how? These people need a reality check!
I had to laugh because apparently gay sex is both "sinful" and "unnatural" and my comment that homosexuality occurs in over 1500 species was over ruled. They even played the card that because two men can't reproduce, their love/relationship is not of the same importance and significance as a straight couple's relationship solely on the fact that they can procreate.
I was respectful of their views and beliefs but of course they did not reciprocate! I think you are right when you say you can't have a proper unbiased conversation about religion in this country and thats fairly sad considering it's in decline.
I won't ramble on because I'll just get angry but I would be interested to know if anyone else shares my views on religion. The biggest thing I would have against it is that in spite of what people say, the country's religion does condemn us for being gay/bi, spreads discrimination and keeps us from reaching equal rights. It is a breach of human rights and I think it's open racism.

checkcheek

To be honest i think the only thing you can do is kinda ignore them and really just laugh at them! That they have such a narrow view on life!! I bet they break alot of gods laws or doctrines or whatever they called them!! And i have to say you argue your point pretty well, to bad they couldnt have any logic to argus back

Dwn Wth Vwls

How do you argue with a mad man? If someone believes the old testament to be the literal truth then I just feel sorry for them really. We have six billion people on the planet from one man and one woman born 6000 years ago? Somehow inbreeding didn't apply and here we all are?

Good luck with that is all I can say.

CuAnnan

1ZRed wrote: »

I got drawn into a thread about about a priest being investigated for his liberal views and so I gave my opinion. Granted it was from the perspective of an atheist but I wanted to make my views known for the sake of a more balanced argument.
I got called a "badly raised self obsessed little boy" because I defended my right to seek equality in the eyes of society without religion condemning me for it.
The thread got locked because it went off topic. Would you think I was justified in my argument though?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056598480&page=14

I admit I was very biased starting off but then I was more interested in defending my right to have sex and fall in love with a man or woman without being looked down on for doing so.

I'm not sure that you're doing much better yourself there.
I am deeply religious. It just so happens that I'm not a Christian, but there are many non-Christian religions that are perfectly ok with any gender preference. The Dalai Lama himself said he would marry gay people and there are Hindi sects that view it as perfectly normal.

Even many Christians believe that homosexuality is fine and there was a near-schism because the Anglicans allow homosexual priests and perform marriages for homosexual people.

Hell, I know Catholics who feel that marriage is a Sacrament in Catholicism and that that particular form of marriage is not open to gay people but that there should be, for non-Catholics, an allowance made for them.

Irish Aris

Reading Conor30's post (very good one, mate), I remembered a documentary that was released a few years ago, called "For the Bible tells me so", which, in a way, was on the same spirit of the Bible being misinterpreted to justify a case.

I am from Greece and my experience tells me to avoid talking anything even remotely religious with deeply religious people. And I'm not talking about just homosexuality. We had a very big argument with a friend regarding church's role during the Greek occupacy by the Turks centuries back.
My opinion is that many religious people can't really distinguish between religion itself and what the church teaches. For them it's all one.
I am not a very religious person (I believe in God and say my prayers), but I am not antifanatical either. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs as long as they don't suppress mine. I have friends that are deeply religious and know that I'm gay and they don't mind. They don't interfere with my life/beliefs, I don't interfere with theirs and we are all very happy.

Azure_sky

I've found some Christians to be more tolerant of transsexuals than some gay people on this forum and IRL if I am to be honest. It's the people who use religion, especially the Old Testament, as an excuse to validate their irrational fears, misconceptions, prejudices and loathing of gays that is the issue. I've also seen plenty of non religious homophobes and transphobes.

The major issue is the right wing fundies in the U.S.A. People who come from the same stable of institutionisled bigotry as Ian Paisley.

BattleCorp

There are a lot of deeply religious people who believe in God, practice their religion and don't persecute gay people so I think your statement is a bit harsh, kind of tarring them all with the one brush.

Yes, many religious people don't approve of gay people. That's their belief (and they have every right to their own beliefs if we live in a free society) and there's no logical arguement you can make to change their minds. That's just the way they are.

Some religious people keep their views to themselves and some try to ram their religious beliefs down your throat. And to be perfectly honest, there are gay people who try and do the same.

My point is that there will always be opposing views on pretty much everything and it's not something that's worth getting upset over. I wouldn't let it worry me if some narrow minded person (I'm being nice here) called me a few names on the internet.

As has been said before, some people you just can't reason with.

1ZRed

Irish Aris wrote: »

Reading Conor30's post (very good one, mate), I remembered a documentary that was released a few years ago, called "For the Bible tells me so", which, in a way, was on the same spirit of the Bible being misinterpreted to justify a case.

I am from Greece and my experience tells me to avoid talking anything even remotely religious with deeply religious people. And I'm not talking about just homosexuality. We had a very big argument with a friend regarding church's role during the Greek occupacy by the Turks centuries back.
My opinion is that many religious people can't really distinguish between religion itself and what the church teaches. For them it's all one.
I am not a very religious person (I believe in God and say my prayers), but I am not antifanatical either. Everybody is entitled to their beliefs as long as they don't suppress mine. I have friends that are deeply religious and know that I'm gay and they don't mind. They don't interfere with my life/beliefs, I don't interfere with theirs and we are all very happy.

Thats just it. I get dragged under the regimes of the overruling religion here. I don't know why I should be labeled as "sinful" if I do something that conflicts with your religion. If I don't believe in your religion then how am I committing sin? The rules don't apply to me and so whatever you say is just falling on deaf ears. I made the point that hating me because of me choices and sexuality is like hating someone who eats a donut because you're on a diet. (BTW, this is not directed at you personally:D)

I don't have anything against religion (It brings people comfort,stability etc) its just that I want my entitlements to be free of any religious strings. I'm an atheist, so for example let me buy drink on good friday, let me partner with a man and have the same legal rights as a straight person's marriage.
Why can't the government give the option to do what I like? If you are religious you don't have to buy drink on good friday or eat meat but don't take my choices away from me. I think if the option is there, the ones who are religious can comply with what they believe and avoid these things and the ones who are not religious or if it doesn't affect their religion can do what they like.

I can cope with not drinking two days a year on christmas day and good friday. Its not about me wanting to get loaded 365 days of the year but I think its the principal of the matter that annoys me.

mikemac1

The Church doesn't have an issue with a person who is gay. However, when they act upon this, that's an act against God.

The answer to your question was given in the very next post

I read the rest of the thread but it's doesn't go anywhere and no wonder it got locked, right mess of a thread.

You asked a question and that one sentence sums it up
If you start a new thread in that forum you'll be told the exact same again

1ZRed wrote: »

I got called a "badly raised self obsessed little boy" because I defended my right to seek equality in the eyes of society without religion condemning me for it.

You came here to vent about being called "badly raised self obsessed little boy".
Ok, it's not very nice

But you went into Christianity forum and posted "some magical fairy in the sky "
The reaction you got back was fairly mild

You don't wander into a religion forum and we have them for others like Judaism and Islam and start posting about fairies in the sky and then complain when someone replies back.


You got called that in reply to the sky fairy post, not due to your debate about being bisexual
Your debate was going on a few pages and it was all fairly moderate but when you rile up the locals with sky fairy you are always going to get a reaction

Though you don't show that at all in the your OP

Leave out the names OP and keep the standard of debate high and this would not have happened

1ZRed

BattleCorp wrote: »

There are a lot of deeply religious people who believe in God, practice their religion and don't persecute gay people so I think your statement is a bit harsh, kind of tarring them all with the one brush.

Yes, many religious people don't approve of gay people. That's their belief (and they have every right to their own beliefs if we live in a free society) and there's no logical arguement you can make to change their minds. That's just the way they are.

Some religious people keep their views to themselves and some try to ram their religious beliefs down your throat. And to be perfectly honest, there are gay people who try and do the same.

My point is that there will always be opposing views on pretty much everything and it's not something that's worth getting upset over. I wouldn't let it worry me if some narrow minded person (I'm being nice here) called me a few names on the internet.

As has been said before, some people you just can't reason with.

I'm not getting upset or anything.It doesn't bother me in the slightest what they call me or how they view me.
They won't listen to logic or an opposing opinion yet they want you to listen to theirs.
Thats all well and good. But how is the country supposed to change for the better if the majority of religious people won't listen to a different way of thinking? I think social change will take longer here than in the UK for example. Its annoying but I'm not losing any sleep over it!;)

1ZRed

mikemac1 wrote: »

The answer to your question was given in the very next post

I read the rest of the thread but it's doesn't go anywhere and no wonder it got locked, right mess of a thread.

You asked a question and that one sentence sums it up
If you start a new thread in that forum you'll be told the exact same again





You came here to vent about being called "badly raised self obsessed little boy".
Ok, it's not very nice

But you went into Christianity forum and posted "some magical fairy in the sky "
The reaction you got back was fairly mild

You don't wander into a religion forum and we have them for others like Judaism and Islam and start posting about fairies in the sky and then complain when someone replies back.


You got called that in reply to the sky fairy post, not due to your debate about being bisexual
Your debate was going on a few pages and it was all fairly moderate but when you rile up the locals with sky fairy you are always going to get a reaction

Though you don't show that at all in the your OP

Leave out the names OP and keep the standard of debate high and this would not have happened

Thats true. I'm not saying I'm not at fault and I did neglect to mention that in my post. I poked the bear out of pure frustration.
And it wasn't my intention to go into a christianity forum, I just saw the thread on the main page and thought I would check it out.
Clearly I need to suppress my distain when people do not listen or respect my argument. I thought I was complying to their ideas for long enough and got pushed over the edge for spreading "STDs and depression" and being accused of using people for sex.
Point taken, I will steer clear of anything religious for a good while!:rolleyes:

baby and crumble

This is not the place to complain about another boards.ie forum, nor about other users of the site. If you have a problem with posters in other forums or indeed moderation there, then take it to helpdesk. Don't start new threads here.

Locked.