postgraduate diploma in management/leadership

carolzoo

I am considering doing a part time postgraduate diploma and perhaps a masters later in the area of school leadership/management in education etc.

I am interested in moving into school management - A or B post or deputy principal. I am not interested in becomming a principal (although I realise deputy may have to stand in for the principal from time to time - i am ok with this!)

I realise that no A or B posts are currently available in schools but am hoping this will change.

What are my chances of obtaining Deputy Princiapl position eventually with this qualificiation. I have twelve years teaching experience - science teacher.

Wouldn't mind moving schools eventually for such a position. Just trying to weigh up the pros and cons of doing the postgrad/masters as it will involve considerable time and expense and I would like to think I'd have some chance of promotion after doing it - otherwise I might be better off staying as I am!

No such position will become available in my school for a long time. Do they generally go to someone in the existing staff - that is what I have heard.

Do you know of colleagues who have done these courses and ended up getting deputy principal or an A / B post? or are they all based on who you know etc.

Are there any other jobs I could apply for with such a qualification?

Just looking for opinions!

bdoo

hi,

I did dip in ed. mgt a few years back. I got an assistant principal post this year.

Im only teaching 8 years, I couldnt say how much weight the qualification carried at interview but the experience of it opens your eyes to a lot of issues and allows you to speak on issues with a degree of comfort and authority.

it wont give you all the answers but it will make you think about issues and come up with your own answers

rainbowtrout

Marks are split into different categories in interviews for A and B posts. I think they have changed a bit but it used to be 30 marks (out of 100 total) for years experience, and the other two categories were relevant experience and suitability for the post. It was weighted heavily in favour of years seniority.

There's a lot of politics in schools surrounding A and B posts. In some schools it is openly decided that the person who is there the longest without a post should get it next and god help anyone who applies. It's not right but it does happen.

A masters might give you a few marks in the interview but I don't think they have any great bearing on A and B posts. B posts which haven't been replaced since the moratorium tend to involve things like organising school tours, green schools, maintaining the school website, school PRO, etc etc. It depends from school to school. A posts tend to be year heads and exam secretary so more leadership and disciplinary duties needed there. It won't harm you to have the qualification but it would be more beneficial for DP positions than A/B post only.

None of the B post holders in my school have a management qualification and I don't think any of the A post holders do either.

TheDriver

I am doing the Open University MEd in leadership and Development. Grand out to do, takes time but nothing major unless you want 100%.
App for DP and P do state management quals are desirable however not essential. but it will do nothing towards getting the DP job, rigorous knowledge of NEWB, Acts, NEPS, etc will get you the job and also a good track record of leadership somewhere else.

The main problem I have is your adament that you want DP but not P. I have an issue with this because one is a stepping stone to another and the issue facing schools at the moment is people are taking DP jobs and won't budge upwards which creates newbies getting the P jobs without any experience. VECs in particular are very conscious of this at the moment because they want people to step up to the mark.

And DP and P has nothing to do with who you know anymore except is a very small number of cases

carolzoo

That's great guys, thanks for all the feedback. Well done bdoo on your A post after only 8 years in the school - also for completing the ed management course!

Thanks also Rainbowbrout for your insights - yes i think very few A or B postholders have such qualifications but just wondering if this will be expected for such posts in the future? or will such posts be wiped out completely with cutbacks? - difficult to see how schools will cope if this happens. -

The Driver - thanks for the info on the openuniversity couse you are doing. Is it Med in leadership and management?
I came across that course as one of the potential courses I might consider doing sometime - or I might never do one.

Just wondering if you have to be in a leadership position in the school to complete the assignments i.e. are they action research based? If you are a normal school teacher would it be difficult to complete the assignments? Do you have to let the school know you are doing the course?

Also do they provide the materials - hard copies or do you have to download everything from their website? Is there much extra reading from books/journals required for references when doing the assignments or is their core material sufficient to use ? - just want to pass. How many hours a week on average does it take do you mind my asking or is it sporadic?

Also are there many teachers in Ireland doing this course do you know? or many from the uk?

yes, i know it doesnt sound great my not being interested in principal but just being honest. I am a mother of one and feel deputy would be my limit!

Just wondering where you would advise I could get leadership experience? even outside of school, what sort of things would they classify as leadership experience - I hope I don't sound too thick!

In your opinion would the Med in leadership and management offer any other possible career paths to me in the future?

Many thanks in advance

TheDriver

a PHd in education leadership of a worm would do well, it doesn't matter except what it sounds like to be honest. I don't think it gives me a massive benefit except on paper.
They provide everything and its all online, tutorials and all. never have to leave the house.
it is the MEd leadership and Management
You can be the caretaker to do it, once you have some access to school stuff.
It can take3 hours a week, 30 hours a week, some weeks more than others and also depends on how much you know the stuff. I only did my dip less than 10 years ago so a lot is still fresh

carolzoo

That's great the driver, thanks for all your help

just to clarify, do they send out hard copies of the materials or do you have to down load the course materials?

also do you need extra stuff/book references journals for assignments or are course notes sufficient to pass


Do you need to alert your school you're doing it? i.e. in order to do some of the assigments etc? What type of access to school stuff would you need?

TheDriver

http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/course/e891.htm will tell you all about your questions on the course. everything else is on the net.
You don't need to tell school anything and you don't need to involve anything, its your own experiences as opposed to doing a project with them.

carolzoo

ok, that's great, thank a mill for confirming that!

carolzoo

Hi the driver,

Just one more query!

it says on the link that they recommend you do the module educational equiry first. that module seems to be very boring imo! I would prefer to start with one of the other modules and then do that one last - i would be more motivated to do it once i knew it was my last module.

Would you say there is any disadvantage not doing this module first? or does this module help you with the other modules - is that why they recommend you do it first?
Did you start with this module?



Many thanks

TheDriver

other people have done modules the other way around but it is meant to be the starter module and isn't as easy as it looks, can be tough going and recommended to get out of the way. It does set you up for academic writing, referencing etc

carolzoo

thanks the driver,

yea that module looks boring and difficult!

I'd be afraid if I started with that one first I may not finish it where as if I did a more interesting one first would be motivated to do the educational enquiry one in order to finish and get the qualification

but as you say it is probably better to start with this one to help refresh with referencing and academic writing.

many thanks for all your help