Dublin bus incident

robertxxx

Evening all,

What would you do,

I was crossing a T junction on foot, about 50mtrs to my left there is a bus coming, i am about 70% across the road when this guy/gal just keeps on trucking toward me, i basically had to quick step out of its way but it brushed off my trailing leg. not hurt.

This bus nearly killed me twice, once with the front of the bus and the other with the mirror!!!

I reacted by turning around and punching and kicking the windows and body of the bus.

I managed to get the number plate.

So IMO i have the right of way as I'm more than 50% across the road and the bus is coming up to a stop sign (and don't we all know what to do at a stop sign) and the whole junction is one big raised speed ramp.
This bus was going about 15 mph straight through a stop sign turning a corner while going over speed island.


Im so annoyed by this pr1ck with his/her's reckless driving.

If the coward stopped and it was a man then i would of made the 6.01 news..........for murder!

Losty Dublin

I'd suck it up and forget about it. If we did that about every car, van, bus or lorry that did the same to us then we'd report a dozen a day. Besides, kicking out at large vehicles is not a good idea, even if it came close to hitting you.

coylemj

You managed to turn around and thump a window and kick the side of the bus, he can't have been going very fast!

And you saw the bus from 50m away yet hadn't completed crossing the road by the time he reached you!

In Ireland you have to kill someone to be found guilty of dangerous driving, it will be your word against his so frankly I wouldn't bother pursuing it.

robertxxx

coylemj wrote: »

You managed to turn around and thump a window and kick the side of the bus, he can't have been going very fast!

And you saw the bus from 50m away yet hadn't completed crossing the road by the time he reached you!

In Ireland you have to kill someone to be found guilty of dangerous driving, it will be your word against his so frankly I wouldn't bother pursuing it.

Its a Bus.
About 15mph.
I was 70% across.
Bus didnt stop at stop sign.
Camera on bus.

gsxr1

complain. simples.

Killing people with buses is frowned upon

Was it a stop sign junction or a give way?

foggy_lad

Firstly you should report it to the Gardai them make an official complaint to Dublin bus and let them know that you have reported the incident to the Gardai.

Green Diesel

Assuming you are crossing from right-to-left, the stop line is before the walk lines, so you had right of way. I'd complain, on the off chance the driver on the route is notified of it if nothing else.

Also, Internet Explorer? lol

cooranig23

could be a made-up story

Hilly Bill

If you saw a bus coming about 50 metres away and you was nearly across the road then why didnt you move out of the way a bit quicker or wait until the road was safe to cross before crossing it?

markpb

cooranig23 wrote: »

could be a made-up story

If it is, the OP will have to explain to the Gardai why there's no evidence of it happening on the bus CCTV.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If you saw a bus coming about 50 metres away and you was nearly across the road then why didnt you move out of the way a bit quicker or wait until the road was safe to cross before crossing it?

Why would they stop if they reach that junction before the bus -if they're already crossing, they have right of way. If they're crossing, why would they run out of the way if a bus which must come to a complete stop anyway.

corktina

if it brushed your leg, it was a hairs bredth from being a serious accident.report it to the gards.

AlekSmart

robertxxx wrote: »

Evening all,

What would you do,

I was crossing a T junction on foot, about 50mtrs to my left there is a bus coming, i am about 70% across the road when this guy/gal just keeps on trucking toward me, i basically had to quick step out of its way but it brushed off my trailing leg. not hurt.

This bus nearly killed me twice, once with the front of the bus and the other with the mirror!!!

I reacted by turning around and punching and kicking the windows and body of the bus.

I managed to get the number plate.

So IMO i have the right of way as I'm more than 50% across the road and the bus is coming up to a stop sign (and don't we all know what to do at a stop sign) and the whole junction is one big raised speed ramp.
This bus was going about 15 mph straight through a stop sign turning a corner while going over speed island.

Im so annoyed by this pr1ck with his/her's reckless driving.

If the coward stopped and it was a man then i would of made the 6.01 news..........for murder!

A very comprehensive and well supported account of what,on the face of it,appears to be a serious incident.

Some aspects of the alleged incident merit clarification and perhaps the first is that Pedestrians have right-of-way at ALL times under our current interpretation of the Road Traffic Laws.

This means that 25%/50%/75% across the junction is irrelevant as motor vehicles must give way to pedestrians at all times.

Secondly,is this a Dublin Bus vehicle and Driver ?

The location as depicted is a 2009 Google Maps image,so has there been any alterations to thge junction in the meantime ?

As it stands the observation of the STOP sign is a secondary occurence to the alleged failure to give way to the pedestrian.

As an irrelevant aside,there is,on the North American continent in particular,a manouvere called a "Rolling Stop" which is widely discussed on motoring forums worldwide,one very good Irish location to observe this is the slip road junction between Templeogue Road and Springfield Avenue,where the STOP sign is observed far more in the ignorance than any other mode.

However,and not for the first time,I have some reservations concerning the need for somebody,who,from their account,has had a serious incident with a Vehicle Driver,to first seek some form of assent or approval from the on-line community before proceeding further with the issue...why would this be ?

Both of the immediate avenues (Gardai and Bus Company) have already been outlined and it is worth noting that any time-lag between the alleged incident and the subsequent reporting of it does not bode well for the individual making the accusation.

I seem to recall that the Courts regard material submitted within 24 hours of an occurrence,ie;written or photographic evidence,as being contemporaneous and therefore of greater merit than subsequently garhered material.

If this incident had involved myself,I suspect I would have been on to 112 Immediately,if not sooner.

antoinolachtnai

Could submit a data protection request at the same time as reporting the incident to get the tape from the front camera of the bus. This would need to be done with all speed, because the tape might get overwritten. This could form the basis for a complaint to the Garda.

There was an interesting case in the Circuit Court where Dublin Bus wasted a load of fare payers money trying to avoid giving out information under data protection

http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2011/08/data-protection-subject-access-rights.html

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

If it is, the OP will have to explain to the Gardai why there's no evidence of it happening on the bus CCTV.



Why would they stop if they reach that junction before the bus -if they're already crossing, they have right of way. If they're crossing, why would they run out of the way if a bus which must come to a complete stop anyway.

Best to get out of the way than get knocked down and killed or wait until it is safe to cross. Its basic common sense regardless of right of way especially that it wasnt at a pedestrian crossing.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Best to get out of the way than get knocked down and killed or wait until it is safe to cross. Its basic common sense regardless of right of way especially that it wasnt at a pedestrian crossing.

Wouldn't it be better if the bus driver was competent and intended coming to a complete stop at the stop line/sign.

mathepac

Hilly Bill wrote: »

... Its basic common sense regardless of right of way especially that it wasnt at a pedestrian crossing.

But there was a STOP sign at a junction. If the driver ignored the STOP sign as alleged in the OP, then s/he is unlikely to have stopped for a pedestrian at/on a crossing.

Report the driver ASAP; the delay was caused by the shock of the incident and banging on the bus was your way of trying to alert the driver to the narrow miss and to get him/her to stop to get particulars.

Hilly Bill

Regardless if the driver was in the right or not , you still dont assume that bus will be stopping and amble across the road.
The OP said that they were 75% across the road when they saw the bus was 50 meters away, which means that the OP was only a few strides from the other side bearing in mind that it wasnt a very wide road ( going by pic posted ) and would have crossed safely and without incident unless the 0P was on a zimmerframe etc and the bus was speeding above the norm.

AlekSmart

Mathepac:But there was a STOP sign at a junction. If the driver ignored the STOP sign as alleged in the OP, then s/he is unlikely to have stopped for a pedestrian at/on a crossing.

The nub of the issue....A STOP sign and an allegation that a specific driver failed to observe it.

Cut & Dried IF the OP can prove it and has evidence,other than anecdotal to support the accusation.

Any reading-on from a specific incident drags the issue into whataboutery and deflects attention from the case at hand,quite simply one can not say with any degree of certainty what another person is likely to do "if they etc etc etc"

However,the OP's case weakens considerably when the interval between the alleged incident and the reporting of same lengthens.

At this remove,it is becoming increasingly unlikely that the Gardai or Dublin Bus could or would do any more than note the OP's complaint.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better if the bus driver was competent and intended coming to a complete stop at the stop line/sign.

How do you know that the driver wasnt competent or intended to stop at the junction?
Either way, you wouldnt hang around on the road to see if the bus stopped or not would you?
Personally IF this story is true then im sure there is more to it than what the OP is telling us. He says the bus was approaching about 50 meters away and he was nearly across and still didnt make it across in time. How come?
Next he says the bus turned the corner at around 15mph, i doubt very much if a bus turns a corner at a junction like that at 15mph.

markpb

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Regardless if the driver was in the right or not , you still dont assume that bus will be stopping and amble across the road.

Pedestrians should stop at junctions until the road is completely clear because drivers cannot be expected to obey the RTAs?

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Regardless if the driver was in the right or not , you still dont assume that bus will be stopping and amble across the road.
The OP said that they were 75% across the road when they saw the bus was 50 meters away, which means that the OP was only a few strides from the other side bearing in mind that it wasnt a very wide road ( going by pic posted ) and would have crossed safely and without incident unless the 0P was on a zimmerframe etc and the bus was speeding above the norm.

Someone crossing the road has the right of way over all other traffic even if they sit down on the road! How do you know what speed the op was capable of walking at and also how do you know they were not nervous of large vehicles and panicked when confronted by a bus bearing down on them?

AlekSmart wrote: »

The nub of the issue....A STOP sign and an allegation that a specific driver failed to observe it.

Cut & Dried IF the OP can prove it and has evidence,other than anecdotal to support the accusation.

The op had right of way and the driver of the bus disregarded that and continued as if they did not see the op crossing the road. Some people should not be allowed drive on the roads!

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

The op had right of way and the driver of the bus :eek: allegedly :eek: disregarded that and continued as if they did not see the op crossing the road.Some people should not be allowed drive on the roads!

There ye go Foggy.....fixed that for ya

AlekSmart

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Could submit a data protection request at the same time as reporting the incident to get the tape from the front camera of the bus. This would need to be done with all speed, because the tape might get overwritten. This could form the basis for a complaint to the Garda.

There was an interesting case in the Circuit Court where Dublin Bus wasted a load of fare payers money trying to avoid giving out information under data protection

http://www.tjmcintyre.com/2011/08/data-protection-subject-access-rights.html

Antoin speaks some truth here,as in the OP's case speed is of the essence if there is to be any hope of investigating the matter....waiting around for some form of group-approval before proceeding only serves to reduce the veracity of the complaint in official eyes.

I would however take strenuous issue with Antoins follier-upper allegation that Dublin Bus "wasted farepayers money trying to avoid disclosing information" to a claimant.

Without referring to the specific case mentioned in the link,how is it possible that Dublin Bus following Legal Advice given to it by it's Legal Advisers is seen to be wasting Farepayers money ?

I would be somewhat surprised if,at this juncture,anybody involved in a commercial or public service role is not fully aware of the significant (if not overriding) role played by Public Liability legislation and the ability of a company to provide for its requirements.

It is why,for example,most Insurance companies will advise against a policyholder making any statements at the scene of an accident,as from that moment on,it's the Insurance Company which is in charge of indemnity including the right to reduce or eliminate any payment made on foot of the policy.

If the Claims Investigation Dept,having reviewed the evidence before it,felt there was a chance of this course of action succeeding then they had good reason for recommending it.

I'm unsure if Antoin is suggesting that Dublin Bus revert to the dei-facto claims procedure of the 1980's and 90's whereby the Company was viewed,with some justification,as an easy mark for a "compo" claim ?

The totally mercenary and hugely unpredictable nature of Irish Courts Judgements and resultant awards left defending such claims an option only for the very brave,or stupid.

It was easier to simply roll-over and settle out-of-court,thus avoiding the virtual certainty of an unfavourable judgement plus costs covering both sides.

For sure,this period (some two decades) saw Dublin Bus and the CIE group generally being tapped-into by an ever increasing retinue of litigious customers and their equally litigious minded legal advisers.

This was a period when some Legal firms saw fit to devote entire departments to litigation against Dublin Bus,on the now ubiquitous "No Foal-No Fee" basis.

To suggest that Dublin Bus,or any body corporate,should disregard it's own legal advisers,appears to me a somewhat bizzarre way of saving money,be it farepayers or shareholders.

Indeed it was the increasing plethora of Personal Injury claims and the ever upward spiral of Legal Fees and costs which prompted the setting up of the Personal Injuries Assessment Board (PIAB) in an attempt to restore some form of order on a situation which was (and still is) threatening the existence of commercial business itself.

I suggest that an unbiased observer would see the companys actions as an entirely justified and desirable attempt to minimize its exposure to loss,given the existence of a personal injury claim to which the video footage referred.

It looking ever more like a case of "Damned if they do-Damned if they don't"...?

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Someone crossing the road has the right of way over all other traffic even if they sit down on the road! How do you know what speed the op was capable of walking at and also how do you know they were not nervous of large vehicles and panicked when confronted by a bus bearing down on them?



The op had right of way and the driver of the bus disregarded that and continued as if they did not see the op crossing the road. Some people should not be allowed drive on the roads!

I know because the OP was quick enough to turn round and manage to kick and punch a bus that was supposed to be doing 15mph.
Im not disputing the right of way but the common sense approach of moving out the way when a bus is coming towards you bearing in mind it was not at a zebra or pedestrian crossing. The Bus here would have had to have stopped before turning that corner as the angle is too tight. The OP in my opinion is not teling us the full story here .

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

Pedestrians should stop at junctions until the road is completely clear because drivers cannot be expected to obey the RTAs?

That would be the sensible approach meaning that you dont assume that a vehicle will stop for you. They are expected to obey the rules of the road but this is Ireland remember. Traffic lights and zebra crossings means nothing to a lot out there.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

That would be the sensible approach meaning that you dont assume that a vehicle will stop for you. They are expected to obey the rules of the road but this is Ireland remember. Traffic lights and zebra crossings means nothing to a lot out there.

including bus drivers!

amen

Wast of time complaining. I've done it twice once with Bus Eireann and once with Dublin Bus. Both instances I had the bus number, time, bus registration, exact time and location.

Complained/Report by several letters. Finally got answers that the bus driver could not be identified due to insufficient information. In the first case the driver narrowly missed a group of school children crossing at a zebra crossing with flashing amber lights. Bus actually went across the other side of the road and continued.

Second case on a roundabout driver caused several cars to stop and swerve.

No accountability in CIE.

Hilly Bill

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foggy_lad wrote: »

including bus drivers!

Read the part where i say "A lot out there" .

Hilly Bill

amen wrote: »

Wast of time complaining. I've done it twice once with Bus Eireann and once with Dublin Bus. Both instances I had the bus number, time, bus registration, exact time and location.

Complained/Report by several letters. Finally got answers that the bus driver could not be identified due to insufficient information. In the first case the driver narrowly missed a group of school children crossing at a zebra crossing with flashing amber lights. Bus actually went across the other side of the road and continued.

Second case on a roundabout driver caused several cars to stop and swerve.

No accountability in CIE.

When they mentioned insufficent information , did you persue it further?

AlekSmart

Hilly Bill wrote: »

When they mentioned insufficent information , did you pursue it further?

Unfortunately,it appears that many people regard posting such allegations on Boards.ie as "pursuing it further",something which is becoming a problem across the spectrum,as it turns the forum into an allegation board rather than one where discussion is facilitated.