Gardaí to receive pursuit driving training

d3exile

http://www.joe.ie/motors/motors-news/gardai-to-get-schooled-in-high-speed-driving-0023261-1


I've done the CBD2 Response Driving Course and found it absolutely brilliant but was very surprised to find pursuit driving wasn't an aspect of it, hopefully this will be a shift in the right direction and future courses should hopefully have an aspect of it...

Random

i wonder will there be complaints about junior members coming out of future recruitment drives being fully qualified to drive at speed and longer serving members getting less driving time and not being happy etc.

its about time they trained the gardai properly anyway. maybe next they might give them a more practical uniform too.

kub

Random i agree with all you just said, also if they are serious about training then surely the equipment in which this training will be utilised should be fit for purpose.

Delancey

I must be naive , I had always presumed that pursuit driving was what the fabled Garda Driving Course was all about

d3exile

Delancey wrote: »

I must be naive , I had always presumed that pursuit driving was what the fabled Garda Driving Course was all about

The standard AGS car course now is the response driving course, basically responding to a specific scene as quickly and safely as possible, it's a different kettle of fish chasing a vehicle at high speed, would of made sense to include pursuit in the course but common sense sometimes doesn't prevail when HQ decisions are made...

tatumkelly

Has to be a positive step... safer for the gardai, as well as innocent citizens on the road.

WilcoOut

Random wrote: »

i wonder will there be complaints about junior members coming out of future recruitment drives being fully qualified to drive at speed and longer serving members getting less driving time and not being happy etc.

dont you know it!

The gra will get it revoked i bet, so that you wont have the veterans whinging,

rather than move forward, we'll be stifled and kept in the dark ages

d3exile

WilcoOut wrote: »

Random wrote: »

i wonder will there be complaints about junior members coming out of future recruitment drives being fully qualified to drive at speed and longer serving members getting less driving time and not being happy etc.

dont you know it!

The gra will get it revoked i bet, so that you wont have the veterans whinging,

rather than move forward, we'll be stifled and kept in the dark ages

With the new CBD courses there's no reason why all probationers shouldn't come out with CBD1 done, not response driving or high speed but it's something at least, then members could be selected for the pursuit/response training...

I could definitely see a lot of unrest if lads with 10years service get leap frogged by kids just outta the college

Mycroft H

Is there still lads driving about on the cheif supers permission? Its about time that stopped.

scholar007

Have AGS got any patrol cars left that can safely drive at high speed apart from the Volvos)?

d3exile

BX 19 wrote: »

Is there still lads driving about on the cheif supers permission? Its about time that stopped.

Chiefs still exists but it's on the way out being replaced division by division with the new CBD system, chiefs will now be CBD1, basically classroom theory and lectures followed by an assessment drive, no speeding or unusual driving, if you're deemed safe you are allowed drive official vehicles from a to b, no lights or sirens and no speeding, they have the same system in the UK I think but one of the UK lads will have to confirm that for me...

POGAN

scholar007 wrote: »

Have AGS got any patrol cars left that can safely drive at high speed apart from the Volvos)?

Volvos are getting old too

pah

d3exile wrote: »

if you're deemed safe you are allowed drive official vehicles from a to b, no lights or sirens and no speeding,

What's the point in having them behind the wheel then?

Eru

pah wrote: »

What's the point in having them behind the wheel then?

Exactly, a murder suspect fleeing the scene but you cant chase them. Logic in AGS

Zambia

pah wrote: »

What's the point in having them behind the wheel then?

At least they can drive a police car. Better a cop arrive late then never.

d3exile

Eru wrote: »

pah wrote: »

What's the point in having them behind the wheel then?

Exactly, a murder suspect fleeing the scene but you cant chase them. Logic in AGS

To be fair 90% of the job doesnt necessitate the use of lights and sirens, burglaries, thefts and criminal damage ie taking reports after the fact, material damage RTAs, Not to mention gathering evidence or arresting/ transporting, none of these require 999 response

WilcoOut

Zambia wrote: »

At least they can drive a police car. Better a cop arrive late then never.

not much of a service though is it?

all member of a police force should be trained to be behind teh wheel of official patrol cars and be abale to repsond to all situations safely and effectivly

could you imagine a child being snatched into a van and a patrol car being flagged down by the hysterical mother and the mule responding, sorry youll have to ring 999 and get someone qualified to persue him :rolleyes:

REXER

Great, lets make a bad situation worse with escalating the problem from the bad guys fleeing the scene to the bad guys fleeing the scene with the cops in pursuit, putting other road users and pedestrians in added danger!

What ever happened to radio's, roadblocks etc?

swiftblade

REXER wrote: »

Great, lets make a bad situation worse with escalating the problem from the bad guys fleeing the scene to the bad guys fleeing the scene with the cops in pursuit, putting other road users and pedestrians in added danger!

What ever happened to radio's, roadblocks etc?

They are left in Hollywood, along with shooting out the tyres. :P

Seriously though, Unless the fleet of cars is seriously upgraded I can't see the advantage of having pursuit training when you don't have the tools to carry it out correctly. I understand there are some decent TC unit cars, but no were near enough.

MagicSean

REXER wrote: »

Great, lets make a bad situation worse with escalating the problem from the bad guys fleeing the scene to the bad guys fleeing the scene with the cops in pursuit, putting other road users and pedestrians in added danger!

What ever happened to radio's, roadblocks etc?

They are quite useful in the city where you have loads of Gardaí minutes away. Not so useful in the country stations where the nearest support is not close and the number of roads far exceeds the number of Gardaí.

Zambia

WilcoOut wrote: »

not much of a service though is it?

all member of a police force should be trained to be behind teh wheel of official patrol cars and be abale to repsond to all situations safely and effectivly

could you imagine a child being snatched into a van and a patrol car being flagged down by the hysterical mother and the mule responding, sorry youll have to ring 999 and get someone qualified to persue him :rolleyes:

In fairness there are not that many times a patrol car is flagged down in front of a major crime like that.

However if it did happen the Mule using the common sense god gave him/her would follow as best he could while calling for the air wing , Traffic corp and other units.

In relation to pursuits here's one that does not end with a crash or adrenline filled moment. There are more ways to skin a cat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyyLtzgXzJ8

WilcoOut

Zambia wrote: »

In fairness there are not that many times a patrol car is flagged down in front of a major crime like that.

However if it did happen the Mule using the common sense god gave him/her would follow as best he could while calling for the air wing , Traffic corp and other units.

im sorry, thats not acceptable

every officer should be equiped and capable to tackle everything that crops up during his day

everything short of bomb disposal or counter terrorist manouvers

to think that an officer could not persue an assailant but would have to follow 'as best they could' while having to wait for someone else to do so would be hilarious if you wernt so serious

what is best they could?

would the be unable break a red light? over take on a continous white line? use a bus lane? 9all while safe to do so of course) all the while the getaway car is doing everything bar going airbourne to get away from the gardai...............

pa990

WilcoOut wrote: »

Zambia wrote: »

In fairness there are not that many times a patrol car is flagged down in front of a major crime like that.

However if it did happen the Mule using the common sense god gave him/her would follow as best he could while calling for the air wing , Traffic corp and other units.

im sorry, thats not acceptable

every officer should be equiped and capable to tackle everything that crops up during his day

everything short of bomb disposal or counter terrorist manouvers

to think that an officer could not persue an assailant but would have to follow 'as best they could' while having to wait for someone else to do so would be hilarious if you wernt so serious

what is best they could?

would the be unable break a red light? over take on a continous white line? use a bus lane? 9all while safe to do so of course) all the while the getaway car is doing everything bar going airbourne to get away from the gardai...............

If only you really knew

Zambia

WilcoOut wrote: »

im sorry, thats not acceptable

every officer should be equiped and capable to tackle everything that crops up during his day

No argument there but are you going to pay for that level of skill

Money no object sure, but lets face it money is an object.

TylerIE

pa990 wrote: »

If only you really knew

????

pa990

TylerIE wrote: »

????

The Code 'v' Reality

cursai

Driving course......if I could get a bike course I'd be happy.

Terrontress

WilcoOut wrote: »

Zambia wrote: »

In fairness there are not that many times a patrol car is flagged down in front of a major crime like that.

However if it did happen the Mule using the common sense god gave him/her would follow as best he could while calling for the air wing , Traffic corp and other units.

im sorry, thats not acceptable

every officer should be equiped and capable to tackle everything that crops up during his day

everything short of bomb disposal or counter terrorist manouvers

to think that an officer could not persue an assailant but would have to follow 'as best they could' while having to wait for someone else to do so would be hilarious if you wernt so serious

what is best they could?

would the be unable break a red light? over take on a continous white line? use a bus lane? 9all while safe to do so of course) all the while the getaway car is doing everything bar going airbourne to get away from the gardai...............

When dealing with a genuine emergency I am sure that any breaches of traffic law would be considered relative to the scale of the emergency.

If any private motorist had seen a child abducted or had to get an injured person to hospital quickly, I'd imagine they would not follow the act to the letter.

I can't see why a Garda without emergency driving training would be any different. As long as he knows his own limits and those of his car.

deadwood

Terrontress wrote: »

I can't see why a Garda without emergency driving training would be any different. As long as he knows his own limits and those of his car.

In, say, a collision of some sort?

Terrontress

deadwood wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

I can't see why a Garda without emergency driving training would be any different. As long as he knows his own limits and those of his car.

In, say, a collision of some sort?

Some sort of fish-run would you think?

Unforeseen circumstances?

Terrontress

deadwood wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

I can't see why a Garda without emergency driving training would be any different. As long as he knows his own limits and those of his car.

In, say, a collision of some sort?

Some sort of fish-run would you think?

Unforeseen circumstances?

cursai

I think this thread should be renamed 'Garda' recieves pursuit driving training.

WilcoOut

Terrontress wrote: »

I can't see why a Garda without emergency driving training would be any different. As long as he knows his own limits and those of his car.

you should reread the entire thread

WilcoOut

pa990 wrote: »

If only you really knew

oh but i do!

foggy_lad

Will there be any legal requirement for these pursuit trained drivers to possess a valid driving licence!

Mycroft H

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will there be any legal requirement for these pursuit trained drivers to possess a valid driving licence!

Why would there not be?

goldie fish

foggy_lad wrote: »

Will there be any legal requirement for these pursuit trained drivers to possess a valid driving licence!

No actually, A garda can drive any vehicle in the course of his duties, even if he/she does not have a licence for that class of vehicle.

quietsailor

goldie fish wrote: »

No actually, A garda can drive any vehicle in the course of his duties, even if he/she does not have a licence for that class of vehicle.

And that statement there is why a lot of us "civilians" get so pissed off about the Gardai, you get no training in how to drive a vehicle but you can drive it anyway.

If I try that I get arrested even though I have the same amount of training. Until ye get this changed there is always going to be suspicions and anger over the Gardai driving skills

mcgarrett

quietsailor wrote: »

And that statement there is why a lot of us "civilians" get so pissed off about the Gardai, you get no training in how to drive a vehicle but you can drive it anyway.

If I try that I get arrested even though I have the same amount of training. Until ye get this changed there is always going to be suspicions and anger over the Gardai driving skills

That requires a change in legislation quietsailor, and the Gardai are not the legislators.

quietsailor

mcgarrett wrote: »

That requires a change in legislation quietsailor, and the Gardai are not the legislators.

But that means nothing to me - all civilians ie non-judicial/non-garda people lump ye all in together, your the justice system/the government. All we know is that you - the Gardai - are allowed to drive unlicenced and we - the civilians - aren't. I now know, but what good is that, the vast majority of people are still pissed off.

To stop us being annoyed you need to do one of 2 things;
1. A massive advertising campaign to let all civilians know it's the Dail that is at fault as the legislation needs changing.
2. Stop the practice of unlicenced Gardai driving.

Which do you think will be easier to sell?

pah

goldie fish wrote: »

No actually, A garda can drive any vehicle in the course of his duties, even if he/she does not have a licence for that class of vehicle.

Really? I didnt know that.

While it may be legislated for it's not something that I have seen in nearly 7 years and 3 different stations.

Turner

They may be exempt in the law but I can guarantee you that In work they are only allowed drive a vehicle for which they themselves hold a license.

Absolutely No Gardai are out driving patrol cars / motorbikes / vans or hgv's without a license.

goldie fish

pah wrote: »

Really? I didnt know that.

While it may be legislated for it's not something that I have seen in nearly 7 years and 3 different stations.

Not surprised. Its for if you seize a vehicle, in theory you can drive it back to the station.
But thats what tow trucks are for...

shampon

WilcoOut wrote: »

dont you know it!

The gra will get it revoked i bet, so that you wont have the veterans whinging,

rather than move forward, we'll be stifled and kept in the dark ages

I'm so glad I joined a proper Police Service. o.O

d3exile

Turner wrote: »

They may be exempt in the law but I can guarantee you that In work they are only allowed drive a vehicle for which they themselves hold a license.

Absolutely No Gardai are out driving patrol cars / motorbikes / vans or hgv's without a license.

100%
The legislation exists for ease of duty ie if a vehicle is causing an obstruction following an accident, or simply has to be moved from a to b for whatever reason the Gardai are licenced by nature of the job to move it, you will not see a Garda driving any vehicle without a driving course of some description, except in the case of cars under 2L which is covered under chiefs authorisation, and you don't get that without a full clean irish driving licence, and even that is being brought up to speed now and chiefs auth will be phased out, so all Garda vehicles on the road will be trained drivers...

So all in all a rant for nothing quietsailor

Terrontress

I think the best way forward is to make a full driving license a prerequisite of the job although I suppose there might still need to be covered as a Garda might need to move a vehicle that their car license does not cover them to drive.

I think the anger comes in like in the case where a Garda who is unlicensed is driving to court in his own car and knocks down a pedestrian, killing her. Because he is on his way to court he is exempted from the requirement to have a license.

d3exile

Terrontress wrote: »

I think the best way forward is to make a full driving license a prerequisite of the job although I suppose there might still need to be covered as a Garda might need to move a vehicle that their car license does not cover them to drive.

I think the anger comes in like in the case where a Garda who is unlicensed is driving to court in his own car and knocks down a pedestrian, killing her. Because he is on his way to court he is exempted from the requirement to have a license.

Has never and will never happen, and it wouldn't be covered as using the vehicle for duty, he'd be prosecuted as any one else who had no licence...

I think people are really over reacting to the licencing issue... Categorically guards will not drive a vehicle unless they have a licence to drive a car under 2.0L or a pretty detailed driving course for anything bigger...

The legislation only exists for use when there is no other option for something that simply must be done, im only 7years in the job but I have never seen or heard of a member driving a vehicle when he wasn't licenced to for more than 3 or 4 meters ie moving it to the side of the road.... And I don't ever expect to