Timber garden furniture

cozzie55

Hey

I'm looking to buy some good quality garden furniture soon, before the start of the summer if possible. Looking at spending a good few quid on it to ensure that I get good quality that lasts as long as possible.

I've looked at the stuff in places like B&Q and its not the quality i'm looking for.

I know I've seen Teak garden furniture in places like Cunninghams in Limerick but they closed down recently. That's the quality i'm looking for.

Can anyone tell me where in Ireland is good for this good quality furniture. Particularly in the Munster area, but will travel if I have too.

Thanks

recipio

Well, don't buy the junk offered in most of the big DIY barns. The timber is some far eastern hardwood which splits when the wind blows them over.
If you can source some good real teak ( don't let some salesman tell you its teak when he means iroko ) furniture go for it and then coat it with a perservative.

cozzie55

recipio wrote: »

Well, don't buy the junk offered in most of the big DIY barns. The timber is some far eastern hardwood which splits when the wind blows them over.
If you can source some good real teak ( don't let some salesman tell you its teak when he means iroko ) furniture go for it and then coat it with a perservative.

This is the problem I'm having a very hard time finding an teak furniture in ireland thats not miles away from me.

Reader1937

Teak - Tectona grandis is somewhat hard to find in any form in the Irish market atm. Iroko is the current commercial "Teak" in the market and works well. The public focus on the two exotics when buying - Teak or Mahogany. The mahogany originally referred to died out 200 years ago. Sapele is used for Mahogany nowadays in this country.
Gleesons History of Irish Forestry states the first "Iroco" was brought in in 1955 for the deck of the asguard being built in Wicklow at a cost of £29 per ft3. Compared to that, its a bargin now. Durable when cared for, but when looking at a timbers ability to withstand elements, remember this is Ireland.

JoeB-

Reader1937 wrote: »

.... The mahogany originally referred to died out 200 years ago. Sapele is used for Mahogany nowadays in this country. ...

And so I also thought. But I was speaking to a funeral director recently, (about a kitchen) and he wanted Mahogany. I said it was commerically unavailable, and that Sapele was the alternative, (as Iroko is an alternative to Teak),.. but he disagreed, and said he still purchases coffins made from the 'original' mahogany.


Cat amonst the pigeons eh?



Formality Gardens (or similar) import Teak furniture from the far east.. I think it's proper teak, and pretty expensive. I'm not sure where they operate from but around the Glengeary area, Dun Laoighre area etc, in Dublin I think. They might be in the phone book.

Not sure if this is them, phone number on site.
http://www.formalityonline.com/

Reader1937

Spain had an local tree it used for top quality joinery which died out. An antique dealer told me it was important to be able to identify the different mahoganys as it helped with dating. When Spain took the Americas in the 1600s one of the resources it needed was timber. Various mahoganys were found and made use of but even these are now listed as threatened. The US has state acts passed to protect it, but the West Indes and some of the central Americas may still ship a trickle of whats left. I have also seen Khaya called the original mahogany as it was pretty much replaced by Sapele. The Americas mahogany has gone the same way Black Walnut is going. The first time BW arrived the boards were as broad as you liked and represented logging from fully adult trees. Now the bales are far more narrow as younger trees are logged to meet the market. Hope this helps. Don't tell the funeral director. The hardwoods business needs prestige when selling.

richiek67

I agree with the whole Teak V Iroko. I used to use a bit of Teak long ago but now its replaced with Iroko which is practically the same, but then the weather hasn't changed !!

Anyway, Morgans timber on the Dublin docks might still sell Teak, but its a long shot, don't think they import it any more.

Avoca might do decent Teak furniture.

I would have thought that if the Iroko is properly treated that it would stand up to the job. It certainly would not get lifted by the wind as its quite a heavy dense wood. I guess its not as naturally oily as the proper Teak !

JoeB-

richiek67 wrote: »

...

... Morgans timber on the Dublin docks....

Morgans have moved... to a new place on the N7, near the M50.

richiek67

Interesting re: the move Morgans have made, will have to go and have a look. The place on the Docks was huge, wonder what the new place is like....?:rolleyes:

recipio

JoeBallantine wrote: »

And so I also thought. But I was speaking to a funeral director recently, (about a kitchen) and he wanted Mahogany. I said it was commerically unavailable, and that Sapele was the alternative, (as Iroko is an alternative to Teak),.. but he disagreed, and said he still purchases coffins made from the 'original' mahogany.


Cat amonst the pigeons eh?



Formality Gardens (or similar) import Teak furniture from the far east.. I think it's proper teak, and pretty expensive. I'm not sure where they operate from but around the Glengeary area, Dun Laoighre area etc, in Dublin I think. They might be in the phone book.

Not sure if this is them, phone number on site.
http://www.formalityonline.com/

Guys,
firstly no 'Spanish ' mahogany exists - they ravaged Cuba for its mahogany and the trade ended sometime after WW2.
Secondly no garden furniture is made from 'Teak'. True Burmese teak is available for boatbuilders but the cost is ungodly - up there with rosewood.
Now the confusing part is that you will find garden furniture made with a heavy durable wood called 'teak' Its actually one of the many varieties sourced from Indonesia and Malaysia.
If you find it its worth buying ( you will know it by its weight )
Lastly you may find garden furniture made from Iroko which comes from Africa but I havn't seen any recently I don't think its a good wood as its brittle and will break eventually.

zebrano.96

facinated by your post reader1937

my idea for irish garden table is legs of 316 stainless and removeable top of good quality harwood,that breaks down to small sections. take top off in autumn and replace in spring chairs to match of coarse:rolleyes:leave the frame out in the wind snow
yes and i wood class myself as a wood lover

iPhone.

Sounds like a great idea to me!

Build it and they will come!

Reader1937

Zebrano 96 - wonderful idea. The breakdown for storage makes care and cleaning easy and less frequent - yet the table top will still look cared for and well. Same thing happened to bbqs some years back - people stopped building them and bought the small yoke on wheels.

Yunjie Teak

Burmese Teak wood is best now.
Got it?
visit : www.yunjiewood.com

nydave

Hi all,im new on here ,im Irish but have lived in Usa for 30 years,i also realize this is a very old post,however as its still showing online I thought I would share my experiences of teak furniture with you and perhaps it might be useful to someone out there,,

Most of the replies on here are correct,however some seem to be a little misleading,honestly I have no idea about teak coming from Africa,i have never dealt with it, teak comes from many different countrys and its quality depends on its country of origin,there are several good breakdowns about the quality of teak available online, the different grades and so on,

I have worked in the wood business for 45 years but I wouldn't consider myself as an expert in all species of wood,i was always interested in teak and why it seemed to dominate the garden furniture business,then about 10 years ago while I was spending some time in Asia I desided to investigate further,and in fact I ended up buying a small factory in Indonesia which was already producing a good quality line of furniture,and since then I have been importing it into the Usa,so since then I live the summer months in Usa and the rest of the year in Indonesia preparing the furniture for the following year,its also good because this way I don't get winters,

Please don't think I joined here to try to sell anyone furniture,its not my goal,i just want to share what I know,

There are a couple of grades of teak wood,if you take for instance a tree that is say 20 to 30 yrs old obviously the quality of the wood will not be as good as a tree which is 50-70 yrs old,in the younger trees only the middle of the tree is what is called grade A,the outer parts of the tree is whats known as grade C or B,It all depends on the colour of the wood,Grade A is a richer darker and more consistent colour than the outer wood,Grades C and B are like someone who has say brown hair and who puts blonde highlights in it,so with grades C and B you end up with a wood that can be like 40% - 60% a dirty blonde colour and the remainder being somewhat darker,and the closer you get to the center of the tree the more consistent and darker the colout gets,

Having said all that it doesn't mean that furniture made from the gradec C and B is bad furniture,it simply means you will have furniture that is not consistent in colour,actually many people prefer the inconsistency in colour,unfortunatey not here in the Usa,the majority only want the top grade A,so we don't manufacture any grade C or B at all,

And another thing to be aware of is that some stores who buy furniture from manufacturers specifically ask for the lower grades but want it to look like its all the same colour,this is very common amongst European buyers,there is a chemical process which can be applied to the lower grades that makes it all look the same colour,if properly done the average person would have no idea that they are buying a lower grade at the price of the higher grade ,to notice the difference you would have to have a sample piece of grade A with you while comparing the look of the furniture,to guys like me who are in the business I know immediately what im looking at because the process changes the true colour slightly and to the trained eye its very easy to spot,another problem with the chemical process is that say after a while you deside to put a coat of varnish/polyurethane or even a teak oil on the furniture to preserve its colour the chemicam reactls against the finish and you end up with a sticky mess,many sellers advertice their furniture as having being treated for the elements ,,weather and insects,so if you see this don't touch it,teak has a natural oil in it and that protects it from weather and insects,teak will turn a grey colour after some time and that is why some people like to varnish it to keep the original colour,however a light coat of teak oil is recommended rather than a varnish,

As for the reply about having stainless legs and a removable top so as to store the top during the winter,its a great idea however all of our tables come flat packed in a box,and have to be assembled by the buyer,its a really simple process,in fact only 6 male/female type fastners holds the whole thing together,majority of chairs come in the same way,,so now everything can be broken down after summer and stored,all the fastners are brass so no danger of them rusting and not being able to open them,only chairs that can be stacked on top of each other come already assembled,this system was developed several years ago so that we can get a bigger quantity into a container because shipping costs are quite expensive these days,


I had considered shipping furniture to Ireland but I cant quite figure out the import duties,and taxes involved,but from what I see online they have a different price depending on which country the furniture is coming from,from Indonesia the online chart shows 2 taxes of 10% each and then another tax of 7.5%,that adds way too much to the price of the furniture,,we are lucky here because there is a trade agreement between Us and Indonesia so there is absolutely no import duties at all,

Also beware of stores selling what looks like teak furniture but in fact its ucalyptus wood,looks somewhat similar just a bit darker in colour but significantly much lighter weight,maybe that scam hasn`t hit Ireland yet,been going on here for years,

Hopefully this will be of some benefit to some of you,,

recipio

Great post nydave and I would acknowledge your expertise.
I don't know of any source for real Burmese teak in Ireland but then I am not building boats and haven't looked very hard. I have worked with teak and iroko and they are completely different woods. I would be happy to build high end furniture out of teak but not iroko which is simply not very attractive and tends to be brittle.If anybody knows of a source of real teak please let us all know but the last time I checked the stuff was at least 100 euro per cub/ft - black walnut sells for about 50 euro.
Good luck with your business - it is hard to find any quality wooden furniture in Ireland.

nydave

Thank you or the good luck wish,appreciate that very much,

Yes I have been scouring the garden furniture websites in Ireland and without sounding dicrecpectful I wasn't impressed,i see some selling furniture made from pine which we all know is not an outdoor wood,maybe beause teak is so expensive its part of the reason they make the furniture from species of lesser quality,and any quality of wood looks beter than the plastic furniture so many people buy these days,i go to someones BBq here and sit on a plastic chair and eat off a plastic table,with plastic knives and forks as well as a plastic plate,i feel like in in Mc Donalds,then I look around and what do you know the garden is surrounded by plastic fencing,man I hate plastic

Like I said before I have no experience with wood coming from Africa,but from research I see that some Burmese teak does come from there,maybe its just the way I am and how I think but to me the further it is grown away from its original homeland there has to be some differences,maybe im wrong,its native to Burma/Myanmar and is also grown in other Asian countrys so at least those species should be somewhat similar,but then again there is teak from the Philippines,its rated very low quality,but from where I live in Indonesia I can be in the Philippines in a couple of hours by plane which contradicts my theory of all Asian produced teak being of the same quality but yet supports my theory of the further away it is grown for its original country actually makes sence,im basing some of my thoughts on gardening,and believe me im no gardner,wish I was but im not,my wife on the other hand can put seens from an orange into the ground and couple of weeks later there is a small orange plant growing,i sometimes bring vegetable seeds from usa to Indonesia,its amazing cause in less than a week some of them are a couple of inches high,some others are so scared of the sun I think they die in the package before I even open it,indonesia has a very volcanis type of soil so maybe that's why,its good for some plants and not for others,so im not able to grow cabbage there,,Dam,,

if I could find out what the import taxes and duties are for wood products going into Ireland then perhaps I could I could send just random planks of teak there and maybe even furniture,obviously on here I cant say exactly what profit margins can be made on teak furniture,but I can say that here in usa some sell it for as much as 5-6 times what it cost them,others are content with a smaller margin of profit,but again we don't have import duties here which makes a big difference,,and the difference between Ireland and here is that here you can sell furniture all year round,because certain parts of Usa don't really have winter,sure during the winter months sales drop from summer months but we can still sell,in Ireland you can probably only sell for a couple of months a year,

Im new on here and finding it hard to navigate the site,many other sites in registered on have a private message section where anyone who is a member can message a another member with information which they don't want all site members to see,because I might have some ideas to share but don't want to make them public on here,maybe its possible for me to send teak wood of furniture to Ireland I really don't know at this point,i would need to have a contact there and would need to send at least a 20' container load at a time,but first I need to know how the import thing works and how much it costs,then I can very quickly work out if its worth doing or not,i have a feeling and just a feeling that there is no real need for it to be so expensive other than greed and high profits by the suppliers,because if I told you what teak costs in Indonesia you would be shocked,

recipio

I would think there is plenty of info available about bringing goods into this country- try the Dept of Trade and Industry.
I used to deal with an Indonesian company who made wonderful gunstocks ( I think just for airguns ) called GINB but they ceased trading. They stuck to two beautiful woods Teak Doreng and Sono Kembang Do you ever stock thes woods ? I would certainly consider buying some if you did.

nydave

Actually im dealing with the office in Nenagh that handles importing,yeah we are emailing each other,as it turns out the duty on the furniture in talking about is 0%,thats a good thing,and they say that Vat is usually charged on the cost of the goods plus the shipping and insurance cost knows as (cif) only problem is they don't say how much the Vat is,like what percentage it is charged at,they say that I have to contact my local tax office,see for me not having lived for so long and never lived there since it became part of the euro its a bit difficult to understand,,,the information they give me is great ,I will give you an example,if the information they say that Vat is dealt with by the different state,by saying state im assuming they mean country,or is it possible they mean county,i doubt that,i know here each state has different tax rates,Ny is just under 9% on everything,so now im trying to establish what percentage Vat is charged at,when I get that then im set,,then I can figure out if it would be viable to ship there,,as for the species you are interested in give me a bit of time ,I will check into it,as a matter of instance what quantity would you be looking for,and do you need it cut to any particular sizes,i don't know anything about guns so when you say gun stocks is that the part that goes agains the shoulder when firing ,cause seems to me if it is it wouldn't take a lot of wood to make one,so the amounts you would be looking for would be quite small,but I will check it for you,keep in mind im in Ny now so I have to communicate with my guys back in Indo by email too,and sometimes they are not too fast replying,but I would need a quantity before I send the request,its the first thing they will ask,

recipio

Thanks for the fast reply !
When the Revenue say 'State' they mean the Government. Standard VAT here is 23% ( criminal I know ) .
I'm not actually making gunstocks but often wondered why nobody was importing Indonesian wood here. I make furniture as a hobby only but would be interested in those two woods if they could be exported at a reasonable price. I'm going to guess however that shipping small quantities from Indonesia to Ireland is simply not economical.?

nydave

Hello again,,
Im actually working from home today,you know the dreaded paperwork,so its a pleasant break to get away from it and converse with you,,its quite amazing you have actually answered my question,can you believe I asked 4 times to the office I was emailing with clearly asked,,,what percentage is charged when paying Vat,,,,and each time they either avoided giving an answer or told me I have to contact my local tax office,,there is no local tax office here in nyc hahaha,,so thank you now I can start putting some numbers together,you have helped me a lot,,as for shipping small lots im like you,however just yesterday while doing research on what shipping companies ship from Indonesia to Ireland,,( the company I use here don't ship to Ireland at all,)I came across several comments from people giving advise to others ,and some were from guys who have brought in small amounts of things,and the prices they mentioned seemed quite reasonable,however some of what I read was a couple of years old,im sure the Vat is still the same so only thing that might have changed is the shipping cost,so my advice check it out yourself,simply type sea freight companies who ship from Asia to Ireland and amongst the ones you find you will also find enquiries from individuals asking advice from others who have already doneso,its quite interesting,at this point without actually doing a thorough numbers thing im like you im beginning to wonder why nobody is importing teak into Ireland,because the numbers in my head add up but not to as much as what I was thinking,so hey maybe this could be the start of something really interesting,i have requests in to a couple of shipping companies in Ireland who do ship from Asia to Ireland,and waiting on quotes from them to finalise my numbers,to here a 20" container including insurances,truck from factory in Indonesia to port and truck from usa port to my place is around $5,500,depending on what time of year,did you know they jack up shipping prices around july of the year cause at that stage they are shipping Christmas products,so winter months is best for shipping,,gived that Ireland is much closer to Indonesia tha usa I think the shipping cost should be quite a lot cheaper,but who knows I will wait and see,i sorta practice the Ben Dunne theory,selling more at a lower mark up is better than trying to sell less at a higher mark up,and for me it works,but not everyone thinks the same right,to each his own I guess,