a new dog...

yak

Hi All,

All advice is appreciated - 8 years ago I bought my parents a (black and tan) king charles puppy as a present, unfortunately last week it died :-(

They are open to the idea of getting a new puppy but have reservations about getting too similar a dog so i'm looking for alternatives... They live in a 4 bed semi in a suburban housing estate but spend most weekends (and some weeks) in a country bungalow iwth about 1/4 of acre for a dog to run around...

I'd see the following as requirements buts reckon it most dogs would fit them!

*loyal
*friendly
*smart
*relatively small (it will be an indoors dog, with lots of walks!)
*good traveler

I bought our previous dog through the buy and sell but looking through it this week turned up nothing... From what I have looked at maybe a shetland sheep dog, cocker spaniel or tri colour king charles are the current front runners... but all thoughts on what breeds to investigate and tips on where to look are welcome...

I have considered rescuing puppy, but amn't interesting in progressing it any further due to the unknowns involved...

Thanks for all your help in advance

cruais

snip

Why pay a couple of hundred euro to a breeder to make them richer when you can rescue a dog or pup for €100.

Look at it two ways.

If you go down that root, you pay the €100 to the rescue, which they are in desperate need off. The dog will be spayed and injections given.

Or

Buy a dog, pay an extortionate amount. Head down to your vet and rack up big bills for all vacs, and spaying.

I rescued my little pup and it was the best thing I ever did. She has no behavioural problems. As far as I am aware, she was born in the rescue centre and is the most lovable thing.

Give a rescue dog a chance.

WolfgangWeisen

yak wrote: »

I bought our previous dog through the buy and sell but looking through it this week turned up nothing...

I have considered rescuing puppy, but amn't interesting in progressing it any further due to the unknowns involved...

Boy, talk about clashing statements! A cav bought through the buy and sell ... and you say there are unknowns associated with rescue dogs?!

I'd take a dog, completely unseen or met, from the DSPCA or similar quicker than any cav I found through the buy and sell, any day of the week. Let alone pay money for that cav.

I'll be honest, for you it would appear there are significantly more "unknowns" than just those confined to the background of a rescue dog you've seemingly written off. Cavaliers are riddled with health issues, particularly here and in the UK. Cross those issues with the potential issues surrounding the unscrupulous breeders you find in the buy and sell and well...again, hand me a dog from the DSPCA and I'll take it no questions asked before I took a cav you found me in the buy and sell.

Either:
A: Read up on breeds that you might think are suitable, learn the health issues associated with them, what to look for when viewing a pup of the breed and more. Then use the IKC to find reputable breeders of that breed, research those breeders and if you're happy, contact them to get on some waiting lists to source litters and be prepared to pay in the mid hundreds+ for a healthy dog

OR

B: Rescue a dog/pup, save a life and help out a very worthwhile cause.

There is no middle ground. Finding a breed you like the look of and then going and finding a litter on a classified site or paper leads to heart break and fuels puppy farms here in Ireland and the UK. If you're not prepared to put the work in for option A, then just go with B. You're almost guaranteed to be significantly better off with a rescue dog than taking a pup from the cheapest and quickest litter you find from a breeder that has to resort to advertising online.

Saying you won't rescue a dog because you're wary of "unknowns", and then saying you bought a cav, of all breeds, out of the buy and sell and are looking to do so again just screams ignorance though.

SingItOut

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

There is no middle ground. Finding a breed you like the look of and then going and finding a litter on a classified site or paper leads to heart break and fuels puppy farms here in Ireland and the UK. If you're not prepared to put the work in for option A, then just go with B. You're almost guaranteed to be significantly better off with a rescue dog than taking a pup from the cheapest and quickest litter you find from a breeder that has to resort to advertising online.

Saying you won't rescue a dog because you're wary of "unknowns", and then saying you bought a cav, of all breeds, out of the buy and sell and are looking to do so again just screams ignorance though.

First part is not true in all cases. Its bad breeders who give the rest of them a bad name, they are not all the same. I bought my dog off done deal & it was the best thing I've ever done, I would do it again. I didn't pay a ridiculous amount for her either. The breeders were not puppy farmers (before anyone jumps I was not stupid enough not to investigate her home, litter mates & living conditions before I bought her). She has NEVER been sick nor does she have behavioural issues, aside from laziness And for the record I got my Labrador for free, same story. He's a healthy 4 year old, never been sick.

As for the second part, I'm sure that by "unknowns" the OP means they wouldn't be sure of the dogs temperament, correct me if I am wrong OP

Would you consider rescuing a young puppy OP? that way you can raise him/her from the beginning and be sure of its temperament

star-pants

Guys - OP said they DON'T want a rescue dog - anyone else pushing this will be infracted. Also please re-read the charter - soapboxing and recommending rescues on thread are not allowed.

WolfgangWeisen

star-pants wrote: »

Guys - OP said they DON'T want a rescue dog - anyone else pushing this will be infracted. Also please re-read the charter - soapboxing and recommending rescues on thread are not allowed./B]

Do you even like animals? I rarely/never see you offering advice on this board, just appearing to wave your stick and then disappearing again. Now you're waving the stick and basically saying "advise the original poster on breeds only so they can go find one in the buy and sell and help fuel an already massive issue in this country".

If you're not going to push for ethical animal ownership I don't think you've any business administrating a board on animal ownership.

But hey, you want this thread to go in a certain direction so I'll play along

Yak, you should get one of them husky type dogs, they're bleedin deadly! Great with kids, great temperament and can be kept in the area you mentioned above. You can find some great deals on them on donedeal.ie, stick in husky and filter by price, some are going next to nothing! Best of luck with it!

tk123

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

If you're not going to push for ethical animal ownership

Are you implying that anyone who hasn't got a dog from a rescue is unethical then? The OP got the dog from b&s 8 years ago and is possibly not aware of the reputation it and other sites have these days?

BraveInca

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

Yak, you should get one of them husky type dogs, they're bleedin deadly! Great with kids, great temperament and can be kept in the area you mentioned above. You can find some great deals on them on donedeal.ie, stick in husky and filter by price, some are going next to nothing! Best of luck with it!

Some folks might read that without realising that you're being ironical...

star-pants

WolfgangWeisen - firstly please read the forum charter it clearly states soapboxing and pushing agendas is not allowed. It also states that recommendations of rescues on thread are not allowed.

I am a moderator of this forum, so yes I will pop into threads and moderate where it's seen fit. Also if someone reports a post we are obliged to check and take action if necessary.

Our rules are in place for a reason, so don't breeze into a site without reading the rules, disobeying them and then giving out when someone corrects you.

Do NOT reply to this post on thread - if you've any further issue you can PM me / my co-mods. Arguing on thread with a moderator decision is also not allowed.


On a personal note, don't dare make assumptions about me and what I care about.

WolfgangWeisen

tk123 wrote: »

Are you implying that anyone who hasn't got a dog from a rescue is unethical then? The OP got the dog from b&s 8 years ago and is possibly not aware of the reputation it and other sites have these days?

Nope, I didn't say that at all and I'm sorry if it came across that way. In a post above I mentioned how I thought one could source a dog ethically (option A or B that I posted above). You can buy pedigree dogs in an absolutely perfectly ethically manner, and you can buy them in a certainly unethical manner. There is some haziness in the middle ground for sure.

I commend anyone who gets a dog, be it a rescue or pedigree dog bought for money, when they do so ethically.

You're right in that the original poster may well be "out of touch" so to speak with regards to dogs in the classifieds these days. It pisses me off when someone offers up to date and valid information to such people and is told they're soap boxing and to shut up though, which is what we have seen here.

Regardless of whatever haziness there may be, the point stands that buying a cav through the buy and sell in 2012 is almost certainly more riddled with "unknowns" than getting a dog from a shelter or pound. The breed as a whole is in terrible shape these days and if you're set on buying one, you want to be very informed as to the source of the dog, not just pick a number from the buy and sell and go pick it up. We're talking tens of thousands in vet bills if you get a cav with syringomyelia alone, which 1/3rd of them are estimated to have, with even taking heart, hips, eyes etc problems they've got now into account and you can't put a price on the heartbreak and distress that these things cause both pet and owner.

Discodog

WolfgangWeisen wrote: »

We're talking tens of thousands in vet bills if you get a cav with syringomyelia alone, which 1/3rd of them are estimated to have, with even taking heart, hips, eyes etc problems they've got now into account and you can't put a price on the heartbreak and distress that these things cause both pet and owner.

I think that Pedigree Dogs Exposed put the figure as high as 90% rather than 1/3 rd.

The OP speaks of the risk in getting a rescue versus the risk from classified adverts. If you do your research there are risks in both but some rescues will give you a guarantee. So, whilst I respect the OP's choice to dismiss a rescue, it is reasonable to point out that their decision is based on very erroneous information.

lorebringer

Yak - pm sent

magentas

Snip--See Star pants earlier warning.

Magenta

OP, to provide you with a reply that is in line with what you actually asked for - if you check out www.dogbreedinfo.com it has lots of information about different breeds. The IKC www.ikc.ie can also point you in the direction of good breeders. There is also a thread stickied at the top of this forum, it is titled Puppy Farm Awareness and is a good guide on what to look for in a breeder.

cruais

cruais wrote: »

snip

Why pay a couple of hundred euro to a breeder to make them richer when you can rescue a dog or pup for €100.

Look at it two ways.

If you go down that root, you pay the €100 to the rescue, which they are in desperate need off. The dog will be spayed and injections given.

Or

Buy a dog, pay an extortionate amount. Head down to your vet and rack up big bills for all vacs, and spaying.

I rescued my little pup and it was the best thing I ever did. She has no behavioural problems. As far as I am aware, she was born in the rescue centre and is the most lovable thing.

Give a rescue dog a chance.

Apologies op about naming rescue!:o

Zapperzy

I would suggest serious caution in looking for a cavalier, while they are absolutely lovely dogs that can melt a heart of ice just by looking at someone with those eyes they also have to be one of the most unhealthy breeds of them all. While every breed has it's list of problems cavaliers seem to get the short straw and there is a list as long as my arm of things they suffer from. Ask any vet or nurse for advice on cavaliers and they will tell you that you rarely see a completely healthy adult cavalier.

From my own experience I can tell you they nearly all have a heart murmur (mitral valve disease is what they get), this requires twice daily medication for the rest of their lives which isin't cheap, they regularly get painful ear infections and impacted anal glands, syringomyelia is also according to most websites very common, while I'v only seen 2 dogs with suspected syringomyelia it probably is as common as they say just not diagnosed as often as it should.

Yesterday we put down an 11 year old cavalier with a dreadful heart murmur and ear infection in both ears so bad both his ears had nearly closed shut. Today we had 2 young adult cavaliers <5 years old for routine ops, both had heart murmurs. Last week I seen a cavalier with such a bad murmur that it sounded like a steam train without even putting the stethoscope on his chest, just holding it over the chest it could be heard. Not in a million years would I buy a cavalier from any breeder, I would even be weary of buying from a reputable breeder who does the usual health checks, they'd break your heart they would.

How much exercise are they able to give each day? And what type of exercise? Walk around the block on lead, or is there somewhere they can let a dog off lead for a run, are they up to going jogging or cycling with a dog? The atributes your looking for in a dog are really all down to how it's brought up and luck really, don't think there's any particular breeds known for being good travellers. Poodles and collies (both can be quite small) I would rate as 2 of the most intelligent breeds but are they able to keep up with such an intelligent dog that really needs a job as such (run the legs off them or start a sport such as agility or flyball). Are they willing to have a dog that needs daily brushing and regular grooming (at a cost if done by a professional groomer of €40 every 8 or so weeks)?

While you can look at a list of characteristics each breed supposedly has the majority of it is down to upbringing. In saying that you should read through some of those dog breed websites and do them quizes that match breeds to you, but don't completely rule out a breed just because they don't match it to you. Once you have a list of breeds your interested in you could have a wander around a dog show and talk to owners and meet the dogs to get a feel for them.

Cherry Blossom

Hi OP,

The three breeds you have listed, while they all seem to fullfill your list of criteria they are all miles apart from each other, one is a toy breed, one is a herding breed and one is a gundog breed. Cocker Spaniels tend to be a little more than most people can handle tbh, so I'd look into them a lot more before deciding to get one.

Sheltie Info:

The average size of a litter is 2 - 3 pups which means they aren't generally a breed that people use as a little money earner on the side. The few people that occasionally have a litter without jumping through all the hoops tend to be selling them at around €500 because there is enough demand for them, so for an extra €50 or so you can get one from someone who has put in the time effort and money into understanding the breed with a wealth of knowledge on the bloodlines the pup comes from and will have had the pups eye tested by the time you take it home ie. someone who has already invested the money you are handing over in the health and well-being of the dog.

Some collie breeds have proven to have had massive reactions, sometimes fatal to a lot of mainstream veterinary medicines, Shelties have a lot blood from various collie breeds in their heritage and also suffer the same ill effects. What this means is that your parents would need to make sure they have a vet that is aware of this problem and can provide alternatives. Personally I wouldn't allow any medication to be given to a Sheltie until I had made 100% sure it didn't include anything that is on this very long list. Some of the normal dog wormers and flea treatments contain things that are on the list.

Shelties are prone to knee problems so must not be allowed access to stairs or allowed to jump on furniture etc. until they are at least a year old and the bones and joints have formed properly.

When you say King Charles, do you mean the 'original' King Charles or the Cavalier King Charles?

Since you seem to have some concern over 'unknowns' have a look at the downloads on the following site, the breeders plan outlines all the preparation that should be done before pups go to new homes and the new owners plan outlines everything your parents will need to do with in the first 2 months after they get the pup. This process should have been followed no matter what source you get a pup from.

http://www.thepuppyplan.com/

This site is relatively new and seems to be having a few teething problems but I was able to access the downloads via google chrome as they wouldn't load with my normal web browser.

I have to ask the question, are your parents completely on board with this and are you all sure they are ready emotionally to get another dog? It takes some people much longer than others to recover from losing a pet so make sure they are both emotionally in the right place.

Lastly - Your parents should be actively involved in this process, they are the people who are going to own, live with and tend to the needs of this dog and as such they should be the people making the inquiries and talking to breeders, the fact that you are the person handing over the money is largely irrelevant. Sure, you can vet people in advance if you wish but you shouldn't make any final decision on their behalf.

carleigh

Hi OP, firstly sorry to hear about your parents dog. My Cocker Spaniel passed away 3 weeks ago aged 13, so I can only imagine how upset they are, we are too heartbroken to consider getting another dog anytime soon. But it is lovely to hear that they are planning to open their home and hearts up to a new arrival.

So I am here to champion the Cocker Spaniel! From my own personal experience (I am obviously biased!) they are the greatest dog there is. So loyal and intelligent, but on the other hand, they are alot of work. The type of Cocker can also make a difference from what I hear. I had a Golden Cocker, and apparently they are the most tempramental of the lot. But our fella was great, not destructive or territorial, and got on great with everyone, he had a great personality. But we did hear from the vet and his groomer that he was the exception to the rule, as alot of Goldens are not as friendly. He required alot of exercise, even up to the last few weeks before he died. At least an hours walk every day, and he went to the woods for an hour off lead almost every day.

If you are interested in getting a Cocker, the Cocker Spaniel Club of Ireland is a good starting point, www.cscoi.ie, they list upcoming litters. It is also a good place to learn about the breed.

Best of luck in your search.

Fridayspark

Op, hope you don't mind me asking, are your parents able for a puppy? Years ago we got a puppy for my grandads 80th. It didn't work out, obviously. Even though he was a big dog man and had many over the years, a puppy was just too much for an old man.

ModSnip- please read my earlier warning

callmekenneth

i assume this has turned into a "get a rescue" thread. ignoring that, i would say a west highland terrier would be good for your folks and tick all the boxes

Ms Tootsie

Hi OP

Going to avoid all the rescue versus breeder talk as I really think it is up to the individual and you have stated you would prefer to go with a breeder.

So.....

A good suggestion for you might be a soft coated wheaten terrier. They are really easy to train (pick up on things very quickly, and often are show dogs) work well both indoors and outdoors thanks to the big furry coat so they would love the open space as much as the indoors. The are good with strangers but will bark to alert you when someone is at the door, great with kids, don't shed and have an amazing temprement.

There is a website that you can go to where you can input everything that you would like from your dog and it will suggest a suitable type for you, you can check it out here - http://www.selectsmart.com/dog/

Best of luck with your search

noddyone2

Terrier