Motor tax (old engine CC) strange pricing.

CiniO

I was wondering why there is so much difference in tax price, for vehicles which doesn't differ that much really.

As an example I'll use two cars we I have.

1. Fiat Bravo 1.2 (2001)
2. Mazda 6 2.0 (2004).

Tax for first is €333, while for second one it's €660 which makes it twice more expensive (98% more expensive to be exact).

Here's few differences in technical spec.

1. Both cars can fit 5 passengers, however on back seat there's bit more comfort in Mazda as there is more space there.

2. Boot space
- Bravo - 280 litres
- Mazda - 490 litres
Difference of 75%

3. Length
- Bravo - 403 cm
- Mazda - 468 cm
Difference of 16%

4. Width
- Bravo - 176 cm
- Mazda - 178 cm
Difference of 1%

5. Engine CC
- Bravo - 1242 ccm
- Mazda - 1999 ccm
Difference of 60%

6. Engine power
- Bravo - 82 BHP
- Mazda - 141 BHP
Difference of 71%

7. Weight
- Bravo - 985kg
- Mazda - 1300kg
Difference of 32%

8. Max speed
- Bravo - 173 km/h
- Mazda - 210 km/h
Difference of 21%

9. Acceleration to 100km/h
- Bravo - 12.5 s
- Mazda - 10 s
Difference of 20%

10. Average fuel consumption
- Bravo - 6.8 l/100km
- Mazda - 8.6 l/100km
Difference of 26%


So generally yes, mazda i bigger, more comfortable, heavier, uses more fuel, faster, but generally difference is not very significent, while difference in tax is almost 100%. Both cars can be used for the same purpose - traveling of up to 5 people.
Why is there so much difference in tax price then? Where's the logic behind it?

.... so the smaller one is value so to tax

-Corkie-

Dude you seriously have too much time on your hands....:D

The goverment simply tax it on cc and nothing else, a 6.3 V12 Merc will have a bit more room but will costs thousands more to tax..

challengemaster

I assume the "logic" is, if you can afford to run a 2L car, you can afford more tax.

Its not strange pricing, they just want more revenue wherever possible.

BostonB

CiniO wrote: »

I was wondering why there is so much difference in tax price,...?

Because they can.

CiniO

-Corkie- wrote: »

Dude you seriously have too much time on your hands....:D

Writing this thread didn't take me more than 10 minutes

The goverment simply tax it on cc and nothing else, a 6.3 V12 Merc will have a bit more room but will costs thousands more to tax..

Difference in CC between those two cars is 60% while difference in tax price is 98%. That's not CC based taxation IMHO.

CiniO

challengemaster wrote: »

I assume the "logic" is, if you can afford to run a 2L car, you can afford more tax.

But funny thing is, that one of the most expensive things to afford between 1.2 and 2.0 car is the tax.

challengemaster

They never claimed it was based on some sort of proportional scale though.

It is CC based as when the CC goes up, the tax goes up. It doesn't have to be a direct link.

Either way, it's a rather pointless discussion.

Voodoomelon

CiniO wrote: »

I was wondering why there is so much difference in tax price, for vehicles which doesn't differ that much really.

As an example I'll use two cars we I have.

1. Fiat Bravo 1.2 (2001)
2. Mazda 6 2.0 (2004).

Tax for first is €333, while for second one it's €660 which makes it twice more expensive (98% more expensive to be exact).

Here's few differences in technical spec.

1. Both cars can fit 5 passengers, however on back seat there's bit more comfort in Mazda as there is more space there.

2. Boot space
- Bravo - 280 litres
- Mazda - 490 litres
Difference of 75%

3. Length
- Bravo - 403 cm
- Mazda - 468 cm
Difference of 16%

4. Width
- Bravo - 176 cm
- Mazda - 178 cm
Difference of 1%

5. Engine CC
- Bravo - 1242 ccm
- Mazda - 1999 ccm
Difference of 60%

6. Engine power
- Bravo - 82 BHP
- Mazda - 141 BHP
Difference of 71%

7. Weight
- Bravo - 985kg
- Mazda - 1300kg
Difference of 32%

8. Max speed
- Bravo - 173 km/h
- Mazda - 210 km/h
Difference of 21%

9. Acceleration to 100km/h
- Bravo - 12.5 s
- Mazda - 10 s
Difference of 20%

10. Average fuel consumption
- Bravo - 6.8 l/100km
- Mazda - 8.6 l/100km
Difference of 26%


So generally yes, mazda i bigger, more comfortable, heavier, uses more fuel, faster, but generally difference is not very significent, while difference in tax is almost 100%. Both cars can be used for the same purpose - traveling of up to 5 people.
Why is there so much difference in tax price then? Where's the logic behind it?

Is that the best you can do? I can come up with a 500% unjustified difference with my car and a 2000 Micra if you want!

CiniO

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Is that the best you can do? I can come up with a 500% unjustified difference with my car and a 2000 Micra if you want!

Heh I'm sure you can.
I just based it on my own example, where I can't see that much difference between the cars to justyfy 100% difference in tax price.

Declan Lander

CiniO wrote: »

Why is there so much difference in tax price then? Where's the logic behind it?

There is no logic, this is Ireland, we don't do logic, we do twisted gombeenism.

shedweller

CiniO wrote: »

Difference in CC between those two cars is 60% while difference in tax price is 98%. That's not CC based taxation IMHO.

Im thinking it has to do with how many of each car is on the road and what the majority will pay. Factor in how much money the govt want and you arrive at your motor tax. This is why the 08+ motor tax has been revisited.

Owen

Cinio for Minister for Finance!

Personally, I wish that anything up to 2 litres on the old tax system was about 450 Euro. That's reasonable.

dr.fuzzenstein

Whenever you want to know how any decision is taken in Ireland, just imagine a room full of civil servants who haven't had a cup of tea and a biscuit for nearly half an hour and are gasping for some tae.
So whatever solution they can come up with in five will minutes will do, grand, the finesht.
You will be amazed how well it explains almost any decision taken in Ireland.

Declan Lander

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Whenever you want to know how any decision is taken in Ireland, just imagine a room full of civil servants who haven't had a cup of tea and a biscuit for nearly half an hour and are gasping for some tae.
So whatever solution they can come up with in five will minutes will do, grand, the finesht.
You will be amazed how well it explains almost any decision taken in Ireland.

Just to take it one stage further after the half-wit top level civil servants are finished (promoted for their poltical connections, never ability), our gombeen quarter wit polticians, then take that already hair brained idea and 'develop' it further, and then 'de ministur' of the day (invariably whose only qualifications for the job consist of being an ex-teacher, an ex county councillor, and an expert hand shaker and wake attender, and the ability to count the days down to his lifetime minister's pension for three years 'work') announces it as a great government brainwave to great personal fanfare.

colm_mcm

Tax for my car, €1400
Tax for her car, €172

Mpg for my car on the motorway 28
Mpg for my car on the motorway 28

Her car is rubbish though, but it's unfair

Then again, if the tax on my car was reasonable, It would have cost way more to buy.

dr.fuzzenstein

Declan Lander wrote: »

Just to take it one stage further after the half-wit top level civil servants are finished (promoted for their poltical connections, never ability), our gombeen quarter wit polticians, then take that already hair brained idea and 'develop' it further, and then 'de ministur' of the day (invariably whose only qualifications for the job consist of being an ex-teacher, an ex county councillor, and an expert hand shaker and wake attender, and the ability to count the days down to his lifetime minister's pension for three years 'work') announces it as a great government brainwave to great personal fanfare.

All thanks to the only people who actually do any work in government: the spin doctors.
They have to take the latest complete fcuk up from these brain dead morons and somehow present it as a glorious breakthrough and achievement.

colm_mcm

Politics forum is here!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

dr.fuzzenstein

colm_mcm wrote: »

Politics forum is here!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I clicked it. Now I feel dirty...

voojeq

Declan Lander wrote: »

Just to take it one stage further after the half-wit top level civil servants are finished (promoted for their poltical connections, never ability)...

Poland and Ireland have something in common, finally. :pac:

CiniO

voojeq wrote: »

Poland and Ireland have something in common, finally. :pac:

So why did they abandoned the idea of motortax in Poland 15 years ago?

s14driftking

colm_mcm wrote: »

Tax for my car, €1400
Tax for her car, €172

Mpg for my car on the motorway 28
Mpg for my car on the motorway 28

Her car is rubbish though, but it's unfair

Then again, if the tax on my car was reasonable, It would have cost way more to buy.

cheaper to pay tax fines then than tax it. its what id be doing

Mar4ix

many countries charge road tax via fuel. as more you drive, and bigger engine, more you pay. thats fair system . (i think one of those countries is Poland).

why couldn't be same in Ireland. Many people could afford nicer cars than.

munchkin_utd

Mar4ix wrote: »

many countries charge road tax via fuel. as more you drive, and bigger engine, more you pay. thats fair system . (i think one of those countries is Poland).

why couldn't be same in Ireland. Many people could afford nicer cars than.

it IS that way in Ireland.

you just need to buy an 08 car or newer to have a nice car and cheap tax (EDIT - and run it on expensive fuel with the carbon levy on it or whatever its called)

challengemaster

Mar4ix wrote: »

many countries charge road tax via fuel. as more you drive, and bigger engine, more you pay. thats fair system . (i think one of those countries is Poland).

why couldn't be same in Ireland. Many people could afford nicer cars than.

Because there's already a flurry of tax on fuel anyway, 90c/L is government taxes.

Also in most countries, there is an actual road tax, which the money contributed gets put towards the maintenance and upkeep of roads and the building of new ones. Over here, all tax goes into one big pot and then some idiots decide where it gets allocated to.

CiniO

Mar4ix wrote: »

many countries charge road tax via fuel. as more you drive, and bigger engine, more you pay. thats fair system . (i think one of those countries is Poland).

why couldn't be same in Ireland. Many people could afford nicer cars than.

It is the same in Ireland.
There is plenty of taxes in fuel, and we all pay it. To be honest, fuel in Ireland is among the most expensive countries for fuel in EU.

Unfortunately in addition to this, we are charges a set rate annual motortax.

Your example with Poland is not good really. In short there was annual motortax in Poland up to 1997 which was paid to local authorities for purpose of maintaining local roads. in 1997 they decided to abandon it, and as compensation for local authorities so they could still have enough money for maintaining the roads, they decided that about 10% of levy included in fuel price, will be given to them.
For drivers though situation was great, as they stopped paying annual motortax, but fuel price was not increased.
So by the same logic, there is already tax paid in fuel in Ireland.
If they wanted to get current motortax amount in fuel taxes, they would have to increase fuel price by about 30c per litre (someone counted it here once) and that would cause Ireland to have the most expensive fuel in Europe.

Owen

Looking forward to retirement in Zakopane already! :pac: