Batmen ?

Delancey

I was reading recently that the actor David Niven while a British Army Major has as his batman / soldier servant , none other than Peter Ustinov.

Does the BA still use Batmen to wait on officers or has the tradition died out ? Perhaps still exists in certain regiments ?

OS119

Delancey wrote: »

...Does the BA still use Batmen to wait on officers or has the tradition died out ? Perhaps still exists in certain regiments ?

no, not for a very long time - end of WW2 i suppose...

it used to be that injured soldiers would be kept on (ideally as soldiers within the Army, but sometimes as civilians employed directly by the regiments) by the Regiments in non-operational roles in the Messes, RHQ, stores etc... and they would also assist the Officers in sorting out their dress uniforms, because the officers didn't have the time, or, often, the skills to do it properly.

this would have happened up until the late 1980's when as much of the non-soldiering roles as possible were privatised or at least civilianised, at this point the ability of regiments to 'hide' people from the beancounters was reduced massively. it also, to be strictly fair, coincided with a change in social attitudes that said that the injured/disabled could lead full, challenging lives and careers, and they should not be confined to the easy, 'make-work' roles they were often given by a kind of benevolent paternalist Regiment/Corps/Army that saw them as incapable of anything else and viewed the world outside as a nasty, dark place where disabled former soldiers would be thrown on the scrapheap.

some officers have what are, in effect, PA's/bodyguards/sort-yourself-out-you-bag-of-sh1t-sir soldiers who 'manage' them while the officer does his job and forgets to eat, but if requested to clean an officers boots or iron a shirt, a quick, sharp 'Fcuk off' would be the appropriate reply...

tac foley

Well, I didn't get commissioned until 1984, but by then batmen were a distant memory in every part of the British Army that I ever encountered. Having been commissioned from Warrant Officer 1 directly to Captain, with fourteen years' soldier service behind me in the part of the Army that I was in, I had no problems figuring out which way to put my clothes on. My mom had taught me all that when I was very small. I could even put my own messkit on without assistance - on those extremely rare occasions when I could borrow one that fitted me. Being a from a long line of cheapskates there was no way on earth that I was going to pay out ~£1500 for a set of clothes to wear twice a year.

Having your own version of Baldrick to polish your pants and press your boots might have seemed like fun, but it's not something that I would have enjoyed.

tac

OS119

tac foley wrote: »

...Having your own version of Baldrick to polish your pants and press your boots might have seemed like fun, but it's not something that I would have enjoyed....

me neither - awkward for the officer (and fcuking lazy to boot!), and demeaning for the soldier.

i think the most senior officers still have them (in a multi-tasked, no, i'm not a lazy bugger who gets someone else to clean my shoes, styleee) - CGS etc... but its not something i'm keen on, and to be brutally honest, the current CGS should have plenty of free time to sort his kit out, what with all the phys he doesn't do.

values and standards my arrse.

Stovepipe

Hi all,
It was a tradition in the DF that when a party of men/women were detached to another barracks to attend an NCO's Course, a private or airman was despatched to, in effect, be their servant. I was called in the CO's Office in my unit and warned off to be ready to go to the Curragh to be a batman. My CO clearly didn't want to send anyone and I made it clear that I didn't want to go. In the end, a guy from another subunit went and found himself painting an Officer's house. Batmanning ended soon after.

regards
Stovepipe

Delancey

Cheers for the replies , I guess it became impossible to complain about lack of numbers/resources while tying up hundreds of soldiers in tasks like washing and ironing officers kit.
So is it safe to say that if one sees an officer with gleaming shoes nowadays that the officer has done it all themselves ?

neilled

Delancey wrote: »

Cheers for the replies , I guess it became impossible to complain about lack of numbers/resources while tying up hundreds of soldiers in tasks like washing and ironing officers kit.
So is it safe to say that if one sees an officer with gleaming shoes nowadays that the officer has done it all themselves ?

Yes. Batmen are long gone from the DF.

tac foley

Re - Officers with shiney shoes.

Yup. It seems that with the advent of the steam age of science and technology, many officers have even been trained to operate simple machinery, such as a spoon, or if particularly gifted and dextrous, even more complicated machinery such as a retractable ball-point pen or even a [very] basic press-button radio device, with the proviso that they did not have to do anything else at the same time. This was a boon on exercises where we had an indivual laser targetting system called SIMFIRE, as the poor souls usually stood still while they operated their little radios, and were shot down like skittles as they did so.

tac

pedroeibar1

neilled wrote: »

Yes. Batmen are long gone from the DF.

Never heard of them being called 'batmen' in the DF. They were known as 'orderlies' and a nice bunch they were. Not all officers had them AFAIR, but those who lived in army married quarters had one (certainly in the 50's and early 60's). Technically their role was to look after the officer, but they usually did the heavy work around the house. They got their army pay plus they got a weekely allowance from the house; they lived in the barracks. Usually they were younger sons from a farming background who had no future at home and joined the army as a job, not a career, and probably had little interest in soldiering. Not at all a demeaning role, they were part of the family.

Cardinal Richelieu

Sounds like a carry over from the days when the officer had to had some financial clout to buy his commission in the BA. The batman was really just an extension of the butler/groom in uniform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of_commissions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(military)

Delancey

Thanks for the Wiki links , seems to be a dead or dying practice in all armies.
Interesting to note that the Household Division of the British Army still have them , perhaps not that surprising when you consider that until recently ( possibly still the case ) junior officers in those regiments were required to show access to ' private means ' - I understand that was to show they could afford various pursuits and club memberships that were expected of their position yet were unaffordable on their army pay alone.

thecommietommy

Here you go -

Delancey

Now why didn't I think of that ? :rolleyes:

Stovepipe

Well, when you saw from last year's programme about Sandhurst, the selection process to go from end of cadetship to a regiment, especially a "proper" one, was still dependent to a large extent on who Daddy is or was and where and with whom he served and if he was considered to be of the right type. If a cadet wanted to go into "trade" or rough it with some lesser regiment, ie, RE or Paras , then he was quickly slid off there. It was telling that the selection interview for the proper Regiments had an Old Boy, ostensibly a civvie, sitting quietly in the background, away from the actual interview team, watching like a hawk and not missing a trick. It was his call in the end, which is sad, really, that entry into a unit depends on a man's whim, instead of a professional assessment of a cadet's effort for 18 months.

regards
Stovepipe

OS119

Delancey wrote: »

...interesting to note that the Household Division of the British Army still have them...

they don't. i know you read it on wikipedia, but i can abso-positively guarentee that HD officers do not have 'batmen', nor oderlies, or soldier servants.

a very senior officer - regardless of his regiment - will have a 'staff' who help him do his job, and a Bn CO will have a bodyguard, but thats it.

no one to polish your shoes, no one to iron your shirts.

Manic Moran

When I was staying at the Officer's Mess in Bovington about five years back, the Rules of the Mess included a section about Batmen. Upon inquiry I was told that such provisions still existed, but had to be paid for by the officer, so most nobody did it any more

tac foley

By very senior officer, you are talking about Major-General and above, who rarely deploy into the field in these unhappy times, unlike Brigadiers and below, who most certainly do so. Even a Brigadier will have an HQ/Int/Logs/Sigs/ etc staff support commensurate with that of any officer with responsiblities at that level. However, please take our word for it that a 'Sergeant Uniform Presser and 'Corporal of Boots' are not numbered among that happy bunch in the HQ staff.

As OS119 notes, mere Colonels/Lt Cols certainly pressed our own kit, but have a 'driver/BG' with them at all times in the TOE - and often when being driven around in the UK in an apparently innocuous civilian car as well that was the CO's car and nobody else's. My brigadier lived in a nice big house with a house staff cleaning lady to help Mrs Brigadier [it was a big house, but then being a brigadier is a big business, even these days], and SHE seems to have been the one to iron his shirts for him. Take it from me, he also polished his own boots. After the last lot of unpleasantness in the UK, the habit of driving around in public with little flags and or stars seems to have held on to only by the boys in light blue, who love that kind of thing, almost as much as they love their shiny black cars, too. However, once you left the unit lines then the flags and assorted ornaments were quickly removed to reduce the 'envy effect'.



tac

xflyer

1979, I was on recruit camp in Gormanston. 20th Batt, D Coy. We were all caught for fatigues for one day. Lucky me, I got the Officers mess. The Sergeant in the men's mess was well known...........so lucky escape.

As it was a surprise appointment I ended up wearing my combat trousers. But I was handed a starched white jacket with blue epaulettes and I was to act as a waiter in the Officers mess. A combat waiter! Rather odd really, I did vaguely remember, being well brought up, that you served from the left. So did so. Twas far from this the average FCA officer was raised. Us three waiters were clearly selected because we somehow fit the cliche.

Somehow I suspect waiters, combat or otherwise have died out in the Defence Forces. But am I wrong?

tac foley

Manic Moran wrote: »

When I was staying at the Officer's Mess in Bovington about five years back, the Rules of the Mess included a section about Batmen. Upon inquiry I was told that such provisions still existed, but had to be paid for by the officer, so most nobody did it any more

Not so much 'bat men' as mess staff who, for a consideration, would scrape the sh!te of your boots instead of you doing it. Officer's messes in the British Armed Forces are still for the most part staffed by military personnel in the form of chefs, except that the Mess Manager might be a civilian administrator rather than a Mess WO, but they are responsble primarily for maintaining the running of the mess in good order, not ensuring that the occupants look smart enough to be seen in the light of day. Like picking your nose, that is a personal thing.

Certainly there is still a part of the BA, particularly in the donkey-walloping branch, that can afford to do that kind of thing when they are away from the home regiment, but generally speaking I wouldn't trust a soul to clean my boots the way I do.

Anyhow, you should have availed yourself of the chance - it would have given you a story to tell the boys back home about how quaint and ante-diluvian we really are back here. I bet they also gave you the room with Mr Edison's electrically-propelled lighting apparatus in it, as well as glazed windows with real glass - am I right?

tac

Delancey

As an aside and a bit off-topic , during WW2 General Eisenhower had a female British Army driver assigned to him , apart from being his driver she also gallantly served throughout the war as his mistress

Interesting woman she was too - originally from Co. Meath.

Stovepipe

Hi all
Waiters, official are one thing but being a waiter, unofficial, appointed to beady eye of Mess NCO for punishment was another.Peeled ton of spuds-check. Scrubbed endless "bamberees" (Army speak for Bain Marie)-check. Scrubbed and polished miles of Mess Floor-check.Cleaned every variation on Army pot/turreen/cauldron-check.Spat in Mess NCO's food-check;)

regards
Stovepipe

Kosseegan

tac foley wrote: »

My brigadier lived in a nice big house with a house staff cleaning lady to help Mrs Brigadier [it was a big house, but then being a brigadier is a big business, even these days],



tac

Brigadiers Generals in the Irish Army generally live in small semi-ds and consider themselves well off if they can afford a golf club membership.

tac foley

Kosseegan wrote: »

Brigadiers Generals in the Irish Army generally live in small semi-ds and consider themselves well off if they can afford a golf club membership.

Ah, with the greatest of respect, the British Army is somewhat larger than the Irish Army.

However, all are soldiers, and I mean no disrespect by my post.

Having seen the cost of joining the golf bat club in Kilcoole, the village of my childhood, I'm surprised that the President of the Republic could afford to play golf, let alone a brigadier.

tac

OS119

Kosseegan wrote: »

Brigadiers Generals in the Irish Army generally live in small semi-ds and consider themselves well off if they can afford a golf club membership.

sorry pal, but if a Lt with 7 years service earns €39k, i think the idea that a Brigadier and his family of half-starved urchins will be cooking road-kill on a one-bar fire and hoping the bailiffs won't see the light from their single candle is stretching incredulity.

did i not read somewhere that the head of the Irish Army earnt more than the head of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff?

tac foley

All that really tells us that the cost of housing in Co Kildare is about the same as Monaco.

tac

Delancey

OS119 wrote: »

did i not read somewhere that the head of the Irish Army earnt more than the head of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff?

Given that the Taoiseach at one time earned more than the US President I would well believe that.
Having said that , I have seen posts on this forum that say in the aftermath of pay cuts , levies , etc some Defence Forces personnel are having to turn to Social Welfare benefits to make ends meet.

pedroeibar1

Delancey wrote: »

So is it safe to say that if one sees an officer with gleaming shoes nowadays that the officer has done it all themselves ?

Nope. When we moved out of an army house and lost our orderly, as the eldest kid I had to do ALL the shoes and the Aga as well. So I know what boning up and spit-and-polish mean. Non-tarnish buttons came in shortly after that time too.

Kosseegan

OS119 wrote: »

sorry pal, but if a Lt with 7 years service earns €39k, i think the idea that a Brigadier and his family of half-starved urchins will be cooking road-kill on a one-bar fire and hoping the bailiffs won't see the light from their single candle is stretching incredulity.

did i not read somewhere that the head of the Irish Army earnt more than the head of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff?

I don't know what you read anywhere. Most irish Generals do not reach that rank until they are in their 50s. Most of their career is spent as a Captain or Commandant. The pay is Junior Managerial Civil Service level. That is the pay scale on which they buy their houses. By the time they make the Brigadier level they have a few short years before retirement. Trading up to a big house is not feasible as they are too old for a mortgage and most have university age children at that stage in their lives.
American Generals can be appointed in their 30s and have numerous benefits and allowances uin addition to their pay.

OS119

Kosseegan wrote: »

I don't know what you read anywhere. Most irish Generals do not reach that rank until they are in their 50s. Most of their career is spent as a Captain or Commandant. The pay is Junior Managerial Civil Service level. That is the pay scale on which they buy their houses. By the time they make the Brigadier level they have a few short years before retirement. Trading up to a big house is not feasible as they are too old for a mortgage and most have university age children at that stage in their lives.
American Generals can be appointed in their 30s and have numerous benefits and allowances uin addition to their pay.

if you listen carefully, you can hear me play a sad tune on the worlds smallest violin...

pedroeibar1

OS119 wrote: »

if you listen carefully, you can hear me play a sad tune on the worlds smallest violin...

That is a very ill-informed comment and inane.

Poccington

I'm sure Brigadier Generals live well enough on their meagre earnings.

OS119

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

That is a very ill-informed comment and inane.

you are suggesting that Irish Army Brigadiers have to claim Social Welfare in order to feed, clothe and house their families?

tac foley

According to this - http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/publications/other/AppendixHigherrep.pdf

A Brigadier earns just over eu108,680 p.a.

Even in present-day RoI that is sufficent to enable him to join any golf club he cares to apply for.

I'm not about to send any food parcels to help the plight of a general officer any time soon.

tac

neilled

Delancey wrote: »

Given that the Taoiseach at one time earned more than the US President I would well believe that.
Having said that , I have seen posts on this forum that say in the aftermath of pay cuts , levies , etc some Defence Forces personnel are having to turn to Social Welfare benefits to make ends meet.

here no claims that senior officers are turning to social welfare, however a pte or junior nco with a few children who's partner has been made redundant could well find themselves in the position where they are entitled to claim various social welfare allowances to make ends meet.

Net pay was greater, however the benefits that come with being a member of the US military (or the brits) both during and post service far exceed anything in the DF.

These benefits include subsidised housing, dedicated tax free stores (the PX), great recreational facilities (swimming pools etc), advances in pay and schemes to get members on the property ladder, first class free healthcare, education and resettlement training opportunities, never mind the "informal" benefits and discounts.

That needs to be borne in mind - looking at net pay doesn't give the entire picture.

pedroeibar1

OS119 wrote: »

you are suggesting that Irish Army Brigadiers have to claim Social Welfare in order to feed, clothe and house their families?

No, that never was my suggestion. You posted a comment

OS119 wrote: »

sorry pal, but if a Lt with 7 years service earns €39k, i think the idea that a Brigadier and his family of half-starved urchins will be cooking road-kill on a one-bar fire and hoping the bailiffs won't see the light from their single candle is stretching incredulity.
did i not read somewhere that the head of the Irish Army earnt more than the head of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff?

which I thought was both inaccurate and frivolous.


Your comment was posted in response to

Kosseegan wrote: »

.... Most irish Generals do not reach that rank until they are in their 50s. Most of their career is spent as a Captain or Commandant. The pay is Junior Managerial Civil Service level. That is the pay scale on which they buy their houses. By the time they make the Brigadier level they have a few short years before retirement. Trading up to a big house is not feasible as they are too old for a mortgage and most have university age children at that stage in their lives.
American Generals can be appointed in their 30s and have numerous benefits and allowances uin addition to their pay.

I’m not certain about today, but my knowledge of the PDF when growing up exactly matches what is written above by Kosseegan.
The Corps an officer was in effectively trapped him at a certain rank. A command & Staff course was done at Capt. rank after which the officer if lucky made it to Comdt. where he languished, waiting for someone to die or retire, which allowed for promotion. At that rank the pay scale is €51-59k, hardly a major amount for a highly qualified individual. Add to that the younger (forced) retirement ages of Comdt.’s and Lt. Col.’s so effectively the clock was ticking against them. Many of the officers I knew growing up rarely made it past Lt. Col., most went out as Comdt.s

OS119

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

...Many of the officers I knew growing up rarely made it past Lt. Col., most went out as Comdt.s

of course they do, its the same everywhere - you do know about the Army structure don't you, the nasty, unforgiving pyramid that says that the higher the rank, the less numbers are required? you can take comfort in the fact that in the IA when an officer is no longer on the promotion track he gets to stay in - in most other Armies its 'up or out', with far more candidates going 'out' than 'up' - no 45yo Captains in the BA/US A.

sorry, but if you're looking for sympathy for middle ranking officers because of the financial hardship they suffer i'll point you in the direction of the Oxford English Dictionary where you'll find it between Sh1t and Syphallis...

pedroeibar1

OS119 wrote: »

of course they do, its the same everywhere - you do know about the Army structure don't you, the nasty, unforgiving pyramid that says that the higher the rank, the less numbers are required? you can take comfort in the fact that in the IA when an officer is no longer on the promotion track he gets to stay in - in most other Armies its 'up or out', with far more candidates going 'out' than 'up' - no 45yo Captains in the BA/US A.

sorry, but if you're looking for sympathy for middle ranking officers because of the financial hardship they suffer i'll point you in the direction of the Oxford English Dictionary where you'll find it between Sh1t and Syphallis...

That post matches your last for non-sequitors. Army structure is no different to management structure anywhere, - some stay in the middle ranks or change jobs if they have ambition. Nobody is forced out. Another difference is that in most foreign armies there is tradition, the Irish Army is too young to have that. Any of the ex-British Army officers I know signed in for X years, often as part of a family tradition and also as a means of obtaining a degree. Most continue their careers in the TAs alongside a professional career elsewhere. As for your concluding (puerile) remark it is not worth comment.

Delancey

I have always though that service in the US forces does carry a lot of benefits both during and after enlistment . We in Europe tend to underestimate the importance of free Healthcare but in the US that is something of fundamental importance - they have a big network of ' VA ' hospitals . I think the US military is also generous in 3rd level education funding , again something we in Europe tend to overlook.

A cousin of mine was KIA in WW2 while serving as a US Army Air Force gunner - his family got a very decent lump sum and benefits package after his death , I suspect an RAF gunner's family woulld have got a fraction of that.

I reviewed my cousins service record recently and at his time of death his pay was $170 per month , factor in ' flying pay' and he was paid around £50 STG per month - would his RAF equivalent have even been on a quarter of that ?

BTW I have heard lots of stories of cheap drink in Irish Army messes - is is tax free ?

Poccington

Delancey wrote: »

Given that the Taoiseach at one time earned more than the US President I would well believe that.
Having said that , I have seen posts on this forum that say in the aftermath of pay cuts , levies , etc some Defence Forces personnel are having to turn to Social Welfare benefits to make ends meet.

I work with a few lads who have to claim FIS.

neilled

tac foley wrote: »

Just for the record - as far as the British Army is concerned [obviously manic moran can tell us about the US Army] -

1. Subsidised housing? Living on the base in the regimental lines is not only sensible but necessary in today's Armed Forces, but I'm not sure that the word subsidised applies here. Are you implying that our soldiers get cheap accommodation? How about the Irish military and their on-base family accommodations? Are they cheaper than renting off-base? Is it even practical for them to do so? We lived in a married qurter on our return to UK back in 1984 only as long as it took to buy our own place a few miles away.

2. The NAAFI organisation does not now and never has provided tax-free anything to HM Forces in the UK. Overseas - ie, Germany - is a different matter. Spirituous liquids/alcoholic beverages and tobacco products have always been severely rationed, BTW, so that you can't buy 100,000 at a time and flood the local market on your RTUK.

2. Advances in pay? Never heard of it. Who would need an advance of pay these days anyhow?

3. Schemes to get 'members' [members of what?] on the property ladder? There ARE visits by local commercial ventures - housing agents, property developers and so on who might be amenable to offer their services to HM Forces. Members of the military are no less keen to become house owners, albiet within certain constraints - a unit that moves around the planet en masse is not the most stable basis for house-ownership, although many folks I know rent their properties out while they are overseas getting blown up, maimed and shot to sh!t on behalf of those who don't.

4. We ALL get free health care in the UK - why should the Armed forces be any different?

5. We all get free education for our children, too, just like every human citizen does .

6. 'Informal' discounts? Do you mean like the police, fire and ambulance services get? Explain, please.

7. I can safely assure that unlike the US and Canada, where vets are elligible for all kinds of discounts on every kind of service and provision you can think of, there is little or nothing at all like that in the UK for vets or even serving personnel. I can rent a car from any of the Big five in Canada or the USA on arrival back home sure in the knowledge that I am entitled to at least a 10% discount and special deal on everything except the insurance package - try that here in yUK and you'd get laffed out of the premises.

BTW, if you feel that the Armed forces are getting unfair advantages over the civilian population, remember that there is nothing stopping YOU from sharing these benefits - all you have to do is to offer to lay down your life in the service of YOUR country for a certain number of years, like I did for thirty three.

tac

1. Irish military accommodation for families is a thing of the past. Whilst we are now seeing a correction in the insanity that was the housing market I pity any serviceman/woman who bought in dublin during the last decade. Regimental accomodation simply wasn't an option - its been long phased out bar 50 or so "overholders" - troops went out and rented on the overheated market or bought.

2. I referred to the PX. I'm aware NAFFI is a different beast.

3. "The Long Service Advance of Pay (LSAP) is an interest-free Army loan of 182 days’ pay, up to the value of £8500, to help you put a deposit on a property. And if you’ve served between four and six years you could also borrow up to 50% of the value of a property (up to £75,000) through the Armed Forces Home Ownership Scheme (Pilot). "

4. The three best letters that can be used in an arguement about N.I joining the republic at some stage : NHS. Everyone gets free treatment - not so in Ireland. Paddy the Pte or Fintan the Comdt often have insurance taken out for their families, something that those in the BA need not worry about

5. Cost of going to school in ROI vs UK system : Much higher. Never even heard of the concept of buying a single textbook in school - was shocked when i discovered the cost of putting a child through the Irish system and the high "voluntary" contributions that are sought. There is a BA allowance for putting the kids in boarding school if you so wish - not the case in the DF.

6 http://www.forcesdiscounts-mod.co.uk/ My local outdoor shop doesn't even give 10% off!

7. British Forces do have a resettlement training thats given (I do recall one raf budgie used it to train as a stripper) the yanks have various post service back to education benefits - there's nothing like that for the DF.

The jist is this I don't begrudge the BA or yanks any of their benefits, the BA in particular could do with a pay rise, however- pay isn't the be and end all - the overall package has to be compared and particularly for the OR's the "extra" money they were supposedly making just got swallowed up by the higher cost of living and providing the basics for their families.

Poccington

Delancey wrote: »

BTW I have heard lots of stories of cheap drink in Irish Army messes - is is tax free ?

It's certainly cheaper than the price you'd pay in a pub.

Messes are dead on their feet though, the drink culture of years ago in the DF are long gone. The only people who'd really use the mess these days are lads who live in, who use it mostly as a means to watch tele and the odd function.

If you'd like to class cheap drink as a benefit Irish soldier recieve compared to other countries, I may have to question your sanity.

Delancey

Poccington wrote: »

If you'd like to class cheap drink as a benefit Irish soldier recieve compared to other countries, I may have to question your sanity.

Not at all , really just curious as over the years I've met people who were amazed at how cheap drinks were in the mess , agree that its not much of a ' perk '.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Poccington wrote: »

The only people who'd really use the mess these days are lads who live in, who use it mostly as a means to watch tele and the odd function..

'The boulevard of broken dreams' - the route the MLI lads take from their living in lines to the mess

dahamster

Chanel Cool Statue wrote: »

'The boulevard of broken dreams' - the route the MLI lads take from their living in lines to the mess

:D tis a big fall from SLO to MLI !!

gizmo555

According to this report in today's (05/05/12) Irish Times, the Indian army is set to abolish the batman system in its units:

THE INDIAN army plans to abolish the colonial system of batmen or personal orderlies it inherited from the British military at independence 65 years ago.

Once implemented – sometime later this year – it would release some 30,000 combatants, or more than a regular army corps, allowing them to dump menial household chores and to rejoin their units as regular soldiers . . .

I hope this kind of thing never went on in the PDF!

For officers batmen were meant to be “runners”, to convey their orders to subordinates, maintain their uniform and personal equipment and drive vehicles.

They often acted as the officer’s bodyguard and in deceptively vague military jargon were required to perform other “miscellaneous tasks” demanded by the officer.

This latter nebulous responsibility in the British Indian army, particularly in modern day Pakistan’s North West Frontier, at times ended up as a euphemism for sexual liaisons between some officers and their batmen.

Many 19th and 20th century regimental histories hint broadly at steamy relationships between officers and Pathan batmen which, when they became known, resulted either in dishonourable discharges or the honourable alternative of suicide to sidestep regimental and familial disgrace.