Front tyres and wet conditions- advice please

Veloce

Hi folks,

I am currently running a pair of Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas (225/40 R18) up front on my Alfa GT.

Pic: http://lovetyres.com/public/tyre/vredestein-ultrac-sessanta-mounting.jpg

I did a bit of research before I bought them and from what I read the feedback was pretty good in wet conditions. I’m not sure if I agree with the feedback though.

I travel the N7 / M7 quite a bit. I find the N7 section leaving Dublin particularly nightmarish in my car after heavy rain. I have had a few hairy moments- particularly hitting standing water over smooth tarmac at between 80km/hr to 90km/hr- the car yawed severely on 2 occasions to the point that I have had to counter steer to ensure it didn’t spin. Might I just add that this is when one side of the car that hits the standing water with the other side more firmly contacted on the road. I know a bit of yaw is expected but to what extent I do not know. The tyres are not severely worn- 70-80% thread.

I was running Vredensteins (think sporttraks) on my previous car (a Corsa!! with 185s R16) and never had this problem as bad. Possibly because of the narrower tyre?

I don’t know whether to change the front tyres or perhaps delve a bit deeper to the car’s current suspension set-up. I know the front bushes are a bit worn and need changing soon- if this even has an impact on the above issue. Any advice?

andyseadog

a national road/ motorway correctly engineered to avoid standing water would be much better i reckon.

mickdw

I found sessantas to be unbelieveably good on the rear of my car in wet conditions. I cant comment on what they are like on the steering axis however I find it hard to believe that they would be as bad as described if everything else is right with the car.

Check that they are mounted with correct side out!

Tea 1000

The wider tyre will be affected more alright on standing surface water. Also, some tyres are better than others for dealing with surface water as an aside from actual wet grip. So a tyre that might have a good compound and perform well in the wet might still be only average at dispersing standing water, and vice versa.
I'd get the tracking done if it's been a while, as that can have a bigger effect than you might imagine, also the bushes might have a negative effect too, but it'd be marginal.
How new are they? Are they fitted the correct way around? You'd be surprised at how many times I've seen guys with directional tyres on backwards.

Veloce

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The wider tyre will be affected more alright on standing surface water. Also, some tyres are better than others for dealing with surface water as an aside from actual wet grip. So a tyre that might have a good compound and perform well in the wet might still be only average at dispersing standing water, and vice versa.
I'd get the tracking done if it's been a while, as that can have a bigger effect than you might imagine, also the bushes might have a negative effect too, but it'd be marginal.
How new are they? Are they fitted the correct way around? You'd be surprised at how many times I've seen guys with directional tyres on backwards.

Thanks for your reply. Pretty sure they are fitted correctly and are in the right direction. I got them in July / August of last year. I don't do a huge amount of mileage.

Don't get me wrong- the actual wet grip from the tyre is pretty good. I don't have any problem with that. I just thought clearance of standing water would be slightly better and would not have expected the feedback to be so great. I read on the one of the BMW forums that it can't be the tyre that is the issue so I am considering suspension set up. I might actually get my tracking sorted.

The particular section of the N7 I must mention is by the Poitin Stil pub going southbound. If you recall there is a slight hill there and the water drainage on the road is very poor.

It's the standing water is the problem

kerten

RoverJames wrote: »

It's the standing water is the problem

+1

Resistance to aquaplanning(which you are exposed to) and grip on a wet road are two different metrics for tyre performance.

If you look at tyre tests, you will see best wet scores generally points uniroyal rainsport 2.

If you look at sub metrics, you will see grip on a wet road is similar to continental premium contact 2 but resistance to aquaplanning is where uniroyal shines. But it is less economical and silent then Continentals due to tread design.

Question is do you really need resistance to aquaplanning or not ? if yes go for uniroyals next time when your vredesteins are worn.

And wider the tyre, harder to resist aquaplanning.

Hal1

I've the quatrac3 winters on. They give excellent grip but are a bit noisy on motorways. http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Vredestein/Quatrac-3.htm

Veloce

RoverJames wrote: »

It's the standing water is the problem

I figured it was going to be that at the end of it all!

kerten wrote: »

Question is do you really need resistance to aquaplanning or not ? if yes go for uniroyals next time when your vredesteins are worn.

Good question. I think I would prefer a tyre with resistance to aquaplaning. I will take a look at the uniroyals.

Nonoperational

The handling on my 156 went to crap when the upper wishbone bushes wore, its worth checking as its basically the same car...

conzy

If you look at the thread pattern on the Sessantas you can see how they wouldnt be able to clear the same volume of standing water as say a Michelin Pilot Sport PS3 which has 3 large "ducts" to allow water to pass straight through.


VS


The Sessantas probably have better lateral grip in the wet but they cant clear the same volume of water and will be more likely to aquaplane