Why is there no online system to claim back your change from DB

veryangryman

Without saying "because its a scam"

I got to say its pretty crap that you cant just log on to their site, put in your ticket reference and make the claim.

Before anyone says "transaction costs for low amounts", a simple way around is to allow one to put in a number of tickets in one go - e.g let you claim back minimum fiver in one transaction so a regular commuter could save the tickets up.

This crap of going into GPO is so 17th century... Opinions?

Ronnie Binge

veryangryman wrote: »

Without saying "because its a scam"

I got to say its pretty crap that you cant just log on to their site, put in your ticket reference and make the claim.

Before anyone says "transaction costs for low amounts", a simple way around is to allow one to put in a number of tickets in one go - e.g let you claim back minimum fiver in one transaction so a regular commuter could save the tickets up.

This crap of going into GPO is so 17th century... Opinions?

Because it is a kind of scam, DB effectively earns interest on any surplus refunds as yet unclaimed. It isn't in their commercial interest to make it easy to refund passengers their change in a straightforward way.

Stark

Leap card?

bk

Stark wrote: »

Leap card?

Can and have been overcharged on Leap Card too and you still have to go into O'Connell St to get a refund on overcharges.

Losty Dublin

It would take a lot of trips and change receipts to build up €5 worth and that's before you come up with a safe and secure system for a customer to prove that they are entitled to redeem the change in the first instance. A regular passenger would use a travel pass of some shape or form or else they would tender the correct fare so the benefit of such an arrangement for a small amount of one off passengers isn't going to be that high.

What may be more practical is some arrangement whereby ticket agents would accept the change notes as part payment against pre paid tickets.

veryangryman

Stark wrote: »

Leap card?

Leap card is a step in the right direction, but what about those who have backlogs of cash paid for over the years, people who forget their card etc etc. An online system might even save the company a few quid - keep the offline service but trim the headcount as demand would lessen. Alternatively some machines in shops or similar, or the shops themselves accepting the tickets as part payment if the ticket showed how much was owed.

Dravokivich

How many times do Dublin Bus need to tell you to have the exact fare? Isn't it all over the buses, ticket machines and stops?

veryangryman wrote: »

Leap card is a step in the right direction, but what about those who have backlogs of cash paid for over the years, people who forget their card etc etc. An online system might even save the company a few quid - keep the offline service but trim the headcount as demand would lessen. Alternatively some machines in shops or similar, or the shops themselves accepting the tickets as part payment if the ticket showed how much was owed.

I thought there was a limited period in which the receipts were valid to claim your refund? The surplus money ends up being donated because Dublin Bus can't keep it themselves.

listermint

Dravokivich wrote: »

How many times do Dublin Bus need to tell you to have the exact fare? Isn't it all over the buses, ticket machines and stops?



I thought there was a limited period in which the recipts were valid to claim your refund? The surplus money ends up being donated because Dublin Bus can't keep it themselves.

How many times have you gotten on a bus and specfically told the driver the fair you are paying and given more due to the lack of change only to be greeted with a ticket showing no change owed?


Because this has happened to me regularly. Cheeky drivers.

Losty Dublin

listermint wrote: »

How many times have you gotten on a bus and specfically told the driver the fair you are paying and given more due to the lack of change only to be greeted with a ticket showing no change owed?


Because this has happened to me regularly. Cheeky drivers.

Next time, give in the right amount and it won't happen half as much

Dravokivich

listermint wrote: »

How many times have you gotten on a bus and specfically told the driver the fair you are paying and given more due to the lack of change only to be greeted with a ticket showing no change owed?


Because this has happened to me regularly. Cheeky drivers.

Eh, this thread is about the setup in place for claiming a refund. What you have there is a failure on the behalf of a driver to acknowledge you are due a refund.

To anwser your question though, It's not happened to me.

Before getting the Leap Card, I always made sure I had change for my fare set aside in a pocket that has nothing else in it. It's not that hard.

listermint

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Next time, give in the right amount and it won't happen half as much

oh great so the customer is at fault. claps for that :rolleyes:

Triangla

Simple solution could be for them to hand you your change on the bus.

Dravokivich

Triangla wrote: »

Simple solution could be for them to hand you your change on the bus.

I vaguely remember that being avail when I was younger. But now the money is put straight into a safe. So the driver wouldn't have access to it, to prevent being held up by someone looking to rob them.

Mrs OBumble

Dravokivich wrote: »

I vaguely remember that being avail when I was younger. But now the money is put straight into a safe. So the driver wouldn't have access to it, to prevent being held up by someone looking to rob them.

I've caught buses in large cities with thief-types in all sorts of countries. Dublin is the only one where the drivers are to <<self-censored>> to be able to issue change.

Dravokivich

JustMary wrote: »

I've caught buses in large cities with thief-types in all sorts of countries. Dublin is the only one where the drivers are to <<self-censored>> to be able to issue change.

It's a reactionary measure, which Dublin Bus have a tendancy to do citing concern for the safety of their drivers. Couldn't find much online other than a reference to it on Wikipedia (here). Why wouldn't a company want to reduce the risk to their staff?

Losty Dublin

listermint wrote: »

oh great so the customer is at fault. claps for that :rolleyes:

Oh ok, so the driver is actually the one at fault for you giving over and above the correct fare on a regular basis. One bitten, twice shy

Stark

JustMary wrote: »

I've caught buses in large cities with thief-types in all sorts of countries. Dublin is the only one where the drivers are to <<self-censored>> to be able to issue change.

Dublin doesn't have transport police unlike other cities where criminality on public transport is a problem. So it makes sense for DB to take measures to protect their drivers.

listermint

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Oh ok, so the driver is actually the one at fault for you giving over and above the correct fare on a regular basis. One bitten, twice shy

no if you read my post the driver is at fault for no issueing a change receipt. You clearly havent got a clue what im talking about.

Im the customer, i give you cash for the service and you must issue my correct change be it in cash or DB chosen ticketed receipt change system. The issue is the drivers not putting the change on the receipt.

Why are you making it out to be a customer issue?

ridiculous.

Losty Dublin

listermint wrote: »

no if you read my post the driver is at fault for no issueing a change receipt. You clearly havent got a clue what im talking about.

Im the customer, i give you cash for the service and you must issue my correct change be it in cash or DB chosen ticketed receipt change system. The issue is the drivers not putting the change on the receipt.

Why are you making it out to be a customer issue?

ridiculous.

Because you choose to tender over and above the correct fare, that's why this happens to you. Tender the exact cash for the fare or use a pre paid pass and none of this will actually happen to you. Yes, the driver has the facility to tender a change receipt if it's required but it's easily missed and especially when a queue has built up or at rush hour; ask any driver or anybody who handles cash if you don't believe me.

lil5

Short answer to the OP - because DB doesn't have to provide a facility.

Also, because it makes DB look good when they run their Community Support Programme.
The grants for the programme are funded from long-term unclaimed change receipts - http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Community-Events/Community-Support-Programme/What-is-CSP/

Whether the main reason was that of security for the staff, to remove access to the cash being handled or the realisation that it's a nice earner for DB doesn't really matter, but there should be other ways for customers to claim their 'change ticket' without travelling to DB HQ.

Rather than "... When you come to redeem your refund please have your tickets straightened out and in order. Keep the refund section attached to your original ticket. Hand them to the staff in the booking office who will in turn give you the refund amount." (quote from http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/Refunds/)

The cash handling should have been removed from the bus drivers a long time ago. As not even the introduction of the leap card has changed the whole concept I wouldn't hold out hope for a change anytime soon.

In other countries you can buy a ticket from a machine on the bus (in some cases even with notes) and the machine gives you change.

There are numerous reasons why the customer won't have the exact fare (in coins!) for their intended yourney. Be it that they don't know the fare (and can't work it out with the stage system), be it that they aren't regular cash fare / DB users or whatever. It doesn't matter.

Cookie_Monster

change does not have to be given for any transaction at all. So be grateful they at least give you a change ticket, never mind cash.

Corruptedmorals

The unclaimed money goes to charity, and also the Jack and Jill foundation use the change receipts for funds also. I would much rather this continue than DB money going into developing a website for refunds.

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

change does not have to be given for any transaction at all. So be grateful they at least give you a change ticket, never mind cash.

Where's the rolls eyes smiley when you need it? Why do you think other businesses give change? Do you think a normal company would have many customers if they refused to give change?

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

Where's the rolls eyes smiley when you need it? Why do you think other businesses give change? Do you think a normal company would have many customers if they refused to give change?

yes I know that, but there is no legal basis for having to do it, it's a cost that all business have to accept. But with no method to give out cash change on a bus, a fact that's also clearly advertised and widely know DB still provide a service for receive change even without any incentive for them to do it.

Snickers Man

Stark wrote: »

Dublin doesn't have transport police unlike other cities where criminality on public transport is a problem. So it makes sense for DB to take measures to protect their drivers.

That's a stupid argument.

The logic of it, and I'm not suggesting for one second that people should follow through on it, is that if people were to assault drivers who did NOT give them change, Dublin Bus would immediately put in place a mechanism to facilitate customers paying them just to protect their drivers.

I'm not suggesting, really I'm not, that people should band together in a conspiracy immediately to punch any driver who is unable or unwilling to give them change.

But that's the logic of your argument.

Dravokivich

Snickers Man wrote: »

That's a stupid argument.

The logic of it, and I'm not suggesting for one second that people should follow through on it, is that if people were to assault drivers who did NOT give them change, Dublin Bus would immediately put in place a mechanism to facilitate customers paying them just to protect their drivers.

I'm not suggesting, really I'm not, that people should band together in a conspiracy immediately to punch any driver who is unable or unwilling to give them change.

But that's the logic of your argument.

Eh no, it was because drivers got assaulted and the money stolen. Remove the incentive / ability to assualt the driver and steal the money is the logic behind it.

It did happen quite a bit and is referenced in several tourist guides, as well as the wikipedia entry for Dublin Bus I linked earlier. I just couldn't find any actual articles stating particular instances were such issues occurred.

Snickers Man

It's not the "no change on buses" policy per se to which I object. It's the fact that Dublin Bus does so little to encourage cashless payment.

Maybe the Leap card (a 20th century system finally introduced in the second decade of the 21st century) will help. But DB's record has been apalling. When they had the prepaid tickets (which offered no discount at all) their agents sold them like they were kiddy porn; kept at the back of the shop, assistants didn't seem to know anything about them, you had to ask them to go and look. Eventually they discontinued them due to "lack of demand"!

Well No S*** Sherlock!!

Personally I rarely use Dublin Bus as they do so little to encourage people to use their services. So I actually haven't availed of the Leap card yet.

I much prefer Dublin Bikes

bk

Snickers Man wrote: »

I much prefer Dublin Bikes

Funny that, I've been doing a lot more cycling myself over the last few months. Including back and forth between Dun Laoghaire and the city center.

Free and typically much faster then public transport. Shows just how bad public transport is in Dublin.

Cookie_Monster

bk wrote: »

Free and typically much faster then public transport. Shows just how bad public transport is in Dublin.

not just PT, faster than car as well at rush hour.

bk

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not just PT, faster than car as well at rush hour.

A good bit faster, even outside rush hour.

The average speed in Dublin City is now down to 12km/h, I average around 20km/h

BostonB

The bicycle is also the most consistent for time too.

parsi

This is quite a bugbear for us culchies who head up to the big smoke.

We're bombarded with notices that we have to tender the exact fare. Notices telling us what the bloody fare is are - however - in very short supply.

My last trip to Dublin meant I had to get a bus from Luttrelstown into the city centre. I asked the driver what was the fare (I had a pocketful of change), couldn't catch what he mubled and asked him to mumble it again. I could feel the folk behind starting to tut-tut . I was at the stop well in advance (in advance enough to see an empty bus sail by) so had plenty of time to study the information posted - but nowhere was there an indication of the fare. Nowhere.

veryangryman

BostonB wrote: »

The bicycle is also the most consistent for time too.

Not when you factor in the time spent showering/drying/changing at the office. I do of course assume you keep clean here, apologies if im wrong.

bk

veryangryman wrote: »

Not when you factor in the time spent showering/drying/changing at the office. I do of course assume you keep clean here, apologies if im wrong.

Unless you are extremely unfit, you really won't sweat while cycling at a commuter pace.

Cycling 15k at 20km/h I experience zero sweat.

Cycling at an average easy cadence means you use no more energy then walking at an average speed and therefore no more chance of sweat then if you were walking. You just cover the distance faster on the bike.

You only sweat on a bike if you cycle at a much higher speed, more like a work out then a commute.

I'm afraid this is just another myth about cycling that people buy into as an excuse not to cycle.

BTW even if you do have to shower and change, that would still take no more then an extra 5 to 10 minutes, probably still faster then the car. And then you could always skip the shower before you leave if you are having one at the destination, so really it adds no extra time.

BostonB

veryangryman wrote: »

Not when you factor in the time spent showering/drying/changing at the office. I do of course assume you keep clean here, apologies if im wrong.

What has that got to do with consistency?

BostonB

bk wrote: »

Unless you are extremely unfit, you really won't sweat while cycling at a commuter pace.

Cycling 15k at 20km/h I experience zero sweat.....

Speaking as someone who is extremely unfit. I do try to make it a bit of a workout. I would sweat a little after cycling 30 mins at a decent pace. But not much. Certainly less than you get getting on the sauna train after standing on a Baltic platform for 10 mins. But I wouldn't need a shower, just a change of a shirt and a wash at a sink. About 5 mins. I leave a wash bag at work.

But its consistent regardless, its doesn't take 40 mins one day and 2 hrs the next.

Carawaystick

parsi wrote: »

This is quite a bugbear for us culchies who head up to the big smoke.

We're bombarded with notices that we have to tender the exact fare. Notices telling us what the bloody fare is are - however - in very short supply.

My last trip to Dublin meant I had to get a bus from Luttrelstown into the city centre. I asked the driver what was the fare (I had a pocketful of change), couldn't catch what he mubled and asked him to mumble it again. I could feel the folk behind starting to tut-tut . I was at the stop well in advance (in advance enough to see an empty bus sail by) so had plenty of time to study the information posted - but nowhere was there an indication of the fare. Nowhere.

Amen.
And for all those smart alexes saying you can check online, the proper Smart Alek has pointed out how all the stage markings have been removed so drivers can't figure out the fare. How can customers figure it out?

And upthread it was stated they change can't be given. Change was given in the late '90s.
Change from paper notes is still given in Cork, Galway and Limerick afaik.

LXFlyer

Just on the rationale for the autofare system, I am old enough to remember that there was a sustained period in the 1990s where bus drivers were being attacked virtually on a daily basis, often with syringes etc. This was despite regular garda patrols on the buses.

As a result sickness absenteeism rose to unacceptably high levels, through no fault of the drivers themselves. After consultations between the drivers, gardai and the company, the company decided to implement the autofare system in the interests of the health and safety of their employees, something the directors of the company are personally responsible for.

While it can be a pain, I can entirely understand the logic behind it. I can't speak for the regional cities, but perhaps the problem was not as widespread as it was in Dublin.

As for the broader issues of the fare structure, I've long advocated switching to a zonal system which would make the fare calculation far easier for staff and the public alike. Similarly drivers should always issue change receipts where appropriate.

As for the availability of prepaid bus tickets, and the marketing thereof, I'm not sure exactly what you expect DB to do. I'm aware that they have had:

1) A brochure listing all the prepaid tickets available
2) Another brochure listing all the ticket agents
3) Signs outside every ticket agent
4) A full listing of tickets and agents on the website
5) Periodic advertising campaigns on buses (outside and inside) and at bus shelters
6) Periodic advertising campaigns in local and national newspapers

All of above (excepting 4) have been in place since the late 1980s!!

The real problem is that I certainly believe that Irish people don't seem to want to bother to research the number of prepaid options available, despite the fact that they might save money. That is evidenced alone by the numbers of people still paying the €2.65 cash fare when the Travel 90 ticket saves them 50c per journey.

The old 2 and 10 journey tickets were subject to widespread abuse and as a result were withdrawn. The new smartcards mean that this abuse is virtually eliminated.

I would however agree that the implementation of the LEAP card on the buses has not been satisfactory - however I do believe that to resolve this there needs to be fundamental reform of how the transport companies are funded and a complete overhaul of the fare structures so that Joe Public does not have to be a mathematician to figure out fares.

lmmoonbeam1976

veryangryman wrote: »

This crap of going into GPO is so 17th century... Opinions?

you dont go to GPO !!! :D:D

starviewadams

Carawaystick wrote: »

Amen.
And for all those smart alexes saying you can check online, the proper Smart Alek has pointed out how all the stage markings have been removed so drivers can't figure out the fare. How can customers figure it out?

And upthread it was stated they change can't be given. Change was given in the late '90s.
Change from paper notes is still given in Cork, Galway and Limerick afaik.

There's why change isn't given anymore:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZyzWF4OZiA