Irish Culture and the European Referendum

ArtSmart

Just watching TG4 there and the great fiddle music of Donegal and a thought occurred to me.

It was only from soon after we joined the Europe Union that Irish language, dance and especially music began to re-emerge and reignite. It moved from old and stale associations to being 'hip'.

What happened?

My guess is the increase of European visitors when we joined and their tendency to ask - usually in the first ten mins of conversation "Do you speak Gaelic?" to which the answer would usually be a half muttered 'a bit'. meaning no.

Depending which country they were from they spoke French, Italian, Spanish, Danish, Swedish etc but we Irish, well, we spoke English.(for the most part)

And so awareness of our unique Irish identity, or lack thereof was born - or at least became more painfully clear.

Of course, learning a language is tough going, so what we do to define our Irishness?

yup. music and dancing.


in short joining Europe did more for Irish culture than Douglas Hyde an co could ever manage. long may our association with same continue.

IrishAm

Do you truly believe this?

Skopzz

IrishAm wrote: »

Do you truly believe this?

He lives in a fantasy world where it's much easier to believe fantasy tales than it is to see the facts. I don't necessarly agree with his premise that it was the EU that brought the Irish prosperity. I would venture to say that it was the Irish that brought the Irish prosperity. In spite of being part of the EU.

Ultimately a referendum is the right thing. The people of Ireland will be the ones footing the bill. Let us decide how to proceed. In the end this new fiscal compact is a bit of loss of sovereignty so the people have to decide if they want to go along with that.

stringed theory

I think that Irish cultural identity fits in very well to a more united Europe, a "Europe of the regions" - where notions such as pancelticism, Basque separatism, or Occitanie, etc. easily find a home, and could be practical propositions - as opposed to a Europe of centralised nation states
Many people are always in search of an identity, and as national political structures weaken cultural expressions of identity are likely to grow. The reverse is also the case. One could argue that the greatest ever popular support for the revival of the Irish language was in the years before independence.

ArtSmart

IrishAm wrote: »

Do you truly believe this?

yup.

now let us (me) clarify what i am saying.


I am saying that the Irish sense of self was buried under self-hatred and guilt.

for a large part of the populace hearing Irish music or seeing Irish dance was equivalent to being insane/ a member of the Ra/ old-fashioned/ crazy.

is this untrue?



ok, so then we joined Europe. They came over and said "Oi Paddy, wots all this non--Gaelic speak din?" or words to that effect.

and Paddy starting thinking....

wonton

I think you make some good points but definitely given it waaaaay too much credit to europe at least with music.

The popularity of Irish music has definitely been influenced from outside of our shores, but more from America than anywhere.

Irish played in public in the first half of the 20th century was predominantly that of the céilí bands. which were influenced somewhat from american bands by playing piano and drums.

The irish folk revival that started in the 1960s had its origins in the american folk scence with the likes of woody guthrie and irish american acts such as the clancy brothers, who brought the banjo to the traditional irish scene.

the big thing that brought irish music to the masses was the creation oF Comhaltas ceoltoiri eirean in 1951, an organisation dedicated to premoting irish music, dance and language.

The following years they set up the fleadh cheoil, the annual irish music competition, with events for different instruments and age groups with start at a local level . even in its early years it atttracted huge crowds and hugely brought irish music from a rural setting to a national scene.

ArtSmart

yup, but I'm talking about the young and their attitude towards the whole Irish music, dance, language thingy.

Aside from the societies you mention the entire Irish diddle-eye thing was regarded as uncool and like, totally non-hip.


so what changed that? (not fully ,but more than before)

C C E? I think not.

wonton

The influence from America, the clancy brothers had a spot on the Ed sullivan show in 1961 which lead to success in ireland after being heard by an irish radio broadcaster.


form wiki

"1962 proved to be an even better year. Ciarán MacMathuna, a popular radio personality in Ireland, was visiting America when he heard of the group. He collected the few albums they had out at the time, brought them back home to Ireland and played them on his radio show. The broadcasts skyrocketed the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem to fame in Ireland, where they were still unknown. In Ireland, songs like "Roddy McCorley," "Kevin Barry" and "Brennan on the Moor" were slow, depressing songs full of melancholy, but the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem had transformed those songs (the disgruntled purists in Ireland said "commercialized") and made them lively. For generations the songs had been a reminder of the troubles in Ireland and therefore they weren't anything anybody sang proudly. The Clancy Brothers changed all that, and the transformed songs reinvigorated Ireland's pride in her music. The Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem were brought over for a sold-out tour of Ireland in late 1962. Popularity in England and other parts of Europe soon followed, as well as Australia and Canada"



which is certainly what paved the way for the dubliners and others, who topped the charts later on.