A few newbie questions.

SeantheMan

Hi All,

Basically I've one or 2 questions that I'm looking for help on.
I'd like to start playing SC2 at an OK level.

I DO actually watch a lot of games(MLG Tournaments) and watch DAY9 now and again. I've also played a few games casually as random against friends, but we are all brutal. I've never commited to SC2, as I play loads of games.
I DO know all the units, understand macro/micro, build orders etc (I'm just pretty much a beginner at it ....trying to inject 3 bases while fighting somewhere else etc)

My biggest question at the start, is ,,,how do you, or how did you pick your race ? I sort of started with Zerg, as it seemed ok for -early game- zergs/roaches , but having to expand so fast etc is hard.
I don't want to pick a race based on aestethics.

My 2nd issue, is I tried the 5 placement matches the other day, I think I lost 4 and won 1 (some guy rushed with ALL his SCVs and then quit) , and I got put into silver .
I'm more scared than anything else to start playing matches now as I will be destroyed, is there any way I can relegate myself or something ?

Also, on majority, for Hotkeys, do you use (1,2,3 units, 4 base, etc or is it each to their own ? )

IRL_Sinister

SeantheMan wrote: »

Hi All,

Basically I've one or 2 questions that I'm looking for help on.
I'd like to start playing SC2 at an OK level.

I DO actually watch a lot of games(MLG Tournaments) and watch DAY9 now and again. I've also played a few games casually as random against friends, but we are all brutal. I've never commited to SC2, as I play loads of games.
I DO know all the units, understand macro/micro, build orders etc (I'm just pretty much a beginner at it ....trying to inject 3 bases while fighting somewhere else etc)

My biggest question at the start, is ,,,how do you, or how did you pick your race ? I sort of started with Zerg, as it seemed ok for -early game- zergs/roaches , but having to expand so fast etc is hard.
I don't want to pick a race based on aestethics.

My 2nd issue, is I tried the 5 placement matches the other day, I think I lost 4 and won 1 (some guy rushed with ALL his SCVs and then quit) , and I got put into silver .
I'm more scared than anything else to start playing matches now as I will be destroyed, is there any way I can relegate myself or something ?

Also, on majority, for Hotkeys, do you use (1,2,3 units, 4 base, etc or is it each to their own ? )

Disclaimer: I have a broken finger and any mistakes this following post has will not be edited out. So that is my polite way of giving you a PFO.

*Breathes in...... and out..... Here we go*

First and foremost, your first problem is you have a condition called 'Ladder Anxiety'. Forget about ladder. Seriously, don't mind it. Who cares what your ladder rank is? Seriously, though, who gives a flying f*ck? If you care about ladder rank/points then you're really going about SC2 the wrong way. The only way to get better at SC2 is to play games. How are you going to get better if you won't ladder. Don't be silly, get over your fear. Ladder, literally, makes no difference to anything. Just go for it and not care. Really - don't be dumb. Play ladder.

Moving on. Now that you're not being bad and not laddering we will move on. You can stop reading here if you won't ladder.

With regards to choosing race: mine easy. I played WC3, and a buddy of mine that I played with everyday had some experience in BW. When I jumped on BETA and asked him WTF to do he suggested I pick Terran because they were like Humans in WC3 and so I did and I've been them since! Look, at your level just pick what's fun for you. The further your 'skill' improves the harder it is going to be to change race. Eventually, you'll get to a phase where all your attacks/decisions are based off timings. It's impossible to learn all the timings with multiple races. Your macro will improve and that, in turn, will absolutely improve all races but your timings will be the key. Practice NOW with the race you want to play with before moving on to more complicated stuff. It will make life easier that way.

As I already mentioned don't be worrying about ladder. You're already on a bad foot thinking you don't deserve to be in Silver. You should be very happy!! Silver's a good achievement. If you want to be 'OK' at this game you need to set goals and targets for yourself. For this season, for example, instead of focusing on being relegated why not focus on getting to top 8 in Silver and maintaining your position there? Maybe even work on not having a Bonus Pool > 150 points? Why will you be 'destroyed'? You still lost 80% of your placement matches and got placed in Silver -- that means you were already borderline Silver from last season. I remember I've won all 5 placement games from Diamond and still got placed in Diamond. It's all based on your MMR, not your actual placement stats.

Alright, now that your fundamental questions have been answered it's time to focus on some other basic, but very important, information.

1. 1. Probes and Pylons
2. 2. Scouting

You won't be able to do jack-sh*t in SC2 without the above. When you finally choose a race make sure you're not supply-blocked. If you ever want a tip on how to NEVER get supply-blocked as Terran hit me up online when I'm finally all fixed up and I'll show you.

Scouting is important. Throw away SCVs, Overlords or Probes to see where your opponent is. See how many expansions he's getting. Look at their unit composition. Fight for control of the Xel'Naga Towers. Don't let him bully you around. You deserve to be out there just as much as him. Don't ever show your opponent enough respect to let him sit back and just macro up a deathball. Always react and throw him off and base your decisions off scouting. At your level don't worry about economy so much as to not sacrifice harvesters for scouting. I guarantee you when you're engaging you're floating hideous amounts of minerals. Sending a Drone forward every 2-3 minutes to see what he's up to won't be game-changing.

Learn from your mistakes. You say you watch a fair bit of streams and dailies. That's good and while I don't doubt you do -- watching is not playing. Play customs and don't be afraid to mix things up and play against better players too. You don't see Stephano back into a corner (all the time) when playing Koreans. People train and play on the KR ladder for a reason. The fundamental reason is because playing against better players is going to increase a large majority of your mechanics. I, personally, like to play against better players to get an idea at what level my gameplay is at.

With regards to your hotkeys this my layout (I use standard Hotkey setup as Terran).

1: Bio
2: Siege Tanks/Vikings
3: Ghosts/Thor/BC/Raven
4: Barracks, Factory + Starport with Tab
5: OC (all)
6-9: OC's
0: E-bay's, Armories and Ghost Academy's.

I think that is all you should be focusing on right now. Don't worry too much about impressive macro or the perfect engagements and unit choices. At that level it's all about enjoying the game and not getting supply-blocked. Analyse whatever you can and ask questions when you can.

I currently have a broken finger, but when I get online feel free to ask me questions.

Sinister.947

SeantheMan

Great reply, well done, very informative and helpful.
Thanks
Best of luck with the broken finger.

Khazidhea

What's the trick to NEVER get supply blocked? O_o

StrOut88

The trick is probably to have 1 scv make all your depots and never rally him back to minerals so that an idle worker icon comes up as a mental trigger to make supply. During the mid and late game you could do it with 2/3 scvs respectively.

IRL_Sinister

Guy above me got it. The supply mark is 35.

xSpacey

I would have to disagree with IRL_Sinister
If you're in Silver and your only goal is to improve at the game the only thing you should be worried about is your mechanics.. (macro and stuff like that)

Your build orders shouldn't even matter. The scouting required is minimal, the only thing you have to scout for is bull**** cheesy all-ins. As long as you are CONSTANTLY injecting and using up your larva without getting supply blocked you will always win in the lower leagues because of your opponents poor macro. There's videos of a guy called Destiny getting into plat doing nothing but massing queens.

Honestly even watching your replays is a waste of time right now because you'll know when your macro is slipping because your queens will have more energy than they should.

Orizio

...you can't macro properly without an effective build order. The two things go hand in hand.

SeantheMan

I've played one or two matches since my original post, but was mostly beaten in them.
Watching the replay of 1, I should have clearly won, but I wasn't sure how to counter effectively.
I was trying to focus on the reccomendations that everyone gave me ...
Expand, inject,don't get supply blocked, try keep vision of the map....I think I'm doing ok in these aspects, or at least have some grasp. I probably need to learn more about unit composition and how to counter BIO or Zealot rushes effectively

Situation :
He basically was Terran, I was Zerg.
He turtled in his base, massed marines, Marauders (1 or 2 siege near natural expansion) and then Thors.
I had overloads and zerglings placed about to give me vision on the map, and was able to deny him expanding to a 3rd, and eventually kill his natural expansion too.
At this stage I had 3-4 Hatcheries, MIIILLEESS ahead on economy, but was unsure how to break his force down.
Baneling rush at the bunkers were broken by Siege/Thors, I couldn't get Mutas in for all the anti air, roaches , zergs were destroyed so quickly.

He advanced into 1 of my bases, I tried to stop it and failed, and at that point couldnt be bothered scrambling about trying to rescue the situation.
I was more inclined to watch the replay and try learn how I could have avoided and overcome the situation to begin with.

Still not sure what I should have used, Ultras + Infestors ?


I can try upload the replay later if I figure out how.

MagicSean

If you're up against a turtle the main thing is to take as much of the map as you can, particularly the centre. Get as many production facilities as you can too. If you have him contained then build static defences around his base. If I played zerg and wanted to break into his base I would attack from one side with brood lords and send in a nydus worm on the other. You might lose a lot of units but with loads of production capacity you should be able to resupply in no time. Your opponent won't have the facilities or minerals to resupply the same speed. Don't be afraid to throw away some units if you can replace them in no time.

SeantheMan

Replay is here
http://www.smallfiles.org/download/299/SeanDaybreak_LE.rar.html

Please mind that I know I am crap, it's like my 4th game or something.
I don't need to know "I should build vespene on 9 and Overlord on 10 and etc etc"
Just general things that maybe I was doing wrong or right.
As before, I tried to hold and see the map and counter as he was expanding, also trying to macro correctly and use hotkeys.
I really just want an idea on when/how I should have take him out
Apologies for the replay being long

joshrogan

SeantheMan wrote: »

Replay is here
http://www.smallfiles.org/download/299/SeanDaybreak_LE.rar.html

Please mind that I know I am crap, it's like my 4th game or something.
I don't need to know "I should build vespene on 9 and Overlord on 10 and etc etc"
Just general things that maybe I was doing wrong or right.
As before, I tried to hold and see the map and counter as he was expanding, also trying to macro correctly and use hotkeys.
I really just want an idea on when/how I should have take him out
Apologies for the replay being long

-Keep money low, should never go above 2-3k minerals unless you're maxed out
-Try out baneling+zergling+infestor versus terran early-mid then transition to broodlord+infestor+corrupter late on.

Orizio

Just re-watch the first ten minutes and note the following...

-how many times you get supply blocked

-how much idle larvae you leave sitting around despite your minerals increasing

-how many injects you miss

-how few drones you have at the ten minute mark

-how many minerals you have in comparison to gas

-how over-saturated your main is and how under-saturated your natch is

Also, keep a ling at his natural and at his third to see if he is expanding and also sacrifice an overlord at 6 and 9 minutes mark to see his tech.

SeantheMan

Another question -

Sometimes my mutas appear to be clustered, other times they are in a concave, which is obviously better for when attacking.
What dictates this and how do I make sure they spread out as needed in battle ? , as there is no unit formation button.
It just seems random to me whether they do or don't

IRL_Sinister

SeantheMan wrote: »

Another question -

Sometimes my mutas appear to be clustered, other times they are in a concave, which is obviously better for when attacking.
What dictates this and how do I make sure they spread out as needed in battle ? , as there is no unit formation button.
It just seems random to me whether they do or don't

If you manually click on a unit or structure the muta's will clump. If you a-move them they will spread.

Also if you spam click on an area they will clump on that area (just like any air unit).

SeantheMan

IRL_Sinister wrote: »

If you manually click on a unit or structure the muta's will clump. If you a-move them they will spread.

Also if you spam click on an area they will clump on that area (just like any air unit).

I see, it's just I was engaged in a fire fight and had to target fire each of his units to kill them as quickly as possible.
Was I incorrect in doing so ?

Also, from the OP, being put into silver, managed to start playing better....had won 4 games in Silver, then won my last 4 in a row, so was up to 8 win..45th place or something....lost 1 game later that night...and got thrown into Bronze :P

IRL_Sinister

It's obviously more complicated than that, I just simplified as much as possible. Generally when you're manually controlling your mutas (ie; during the harass) they will be clumped because you'll be clicking specific things (ie; reactors). However, if you just right click on a Reactor and leave the mutas there they will split up/spread out. You need to be constantly moving them back and forth to keep them clumped.

Also if you box them and just a-click like I said, or manually move them (ie; vs a thor) they will auto spread out. That's for good for situations when 2 thors are sh*tting all over your mutas. But yeah, that's the longer explanation.

magicianz

SeantheMan wrote: »

I see, it's just I was engaged in a fire fight and had to target fire each of his units to kill them as quickly as possible.
Was I incorrect in doing so ?

Once you have a decent number of mutas, target firing things can become very inefficient due to the time travel of their attacks and the speed of them, i.e. you have 30 mutas, you a-click a single marine, assuming all are within range at that point that is 30 attacks hitting that single marine, slight overkill! :P if you want to focus down specific things(tanks, colossi, immortals, etc.), then take a small clump of them and focus fire them down. I wouldn't recommend ever using it on basic units unless its something very important, such as a high energy sentry/high templar.

Gbear

On the muta - magic box issue.

I play a fair few monobattles and I've beaten guys going thors just with mutas or banshees.
My tactic is to just leave them sitting around until they automatically spread out, select them, click next to what you want to attack and then press H for hold position. Then they stay spread out until such a time as you give another order.
Attack move against low health units that don't have splash.
Run away from templars. If there's a few undefended on their own try splitting your mutas - select most of them and click anywhere far away from the nasty storms and then pick few of them and go back and attack them. Maybe they'll kill the 4 or 5 mutas but they move fast and if they use all their energy you can just mop up with the ones you have left.

As a general principle you could possibly use little tricks like learner drivers use. Instead of checking your mirrors though, you're checking mins, supply, whether all buildings are being used efficiently etc.

Maybe count in your head or use an alarm that goes off every 10 seconds and rhythmically check everything (larva injects aswell). If you do things like that in a rhythm I think it's possibly an easier way to do it automatically and when you're really good at it hopefully, just as an experienced driver has a sense of what's around them - cars, obstacles, people crossing the road, without having to consciously look for them - you could develop an intuitive sense of where you're at.

Make it even more effective and pick whichever one thing you're the worst at (e.g larva injecting consistently) and just rhythmically do that for a few games until it's second nature. Even ignore the actual gameplay. Be completely at ease saying "I don't care about attacking" or "I don't care about winning". "I'm going to play ten games where I will do everything to not miss a single larva inject for the first 10 minutes".

It's through that kind of play that you improve your mechanics best. Your ego might take a battering at the start but having solid mechanics will make you stand out a mile from about 90% of all players. It isn't fun to lose all the time but if "winning" is progressing your gameplay than each game can feel like another small victory regardless of the result.