Should one ask the tradesman what his hourly or daily charge is?

johnwest288

Should one ask the tradesman what his hourly or daily charge is?
Reason I ask, For instance you may have a long list of small jobs for the tradesman to do. Looks a lot on paper but said tradesman would have it done in say half a day say. Will tradesmen quote for say the time they reckon it would take them or how many jobs your giving them.
I had a sparks in and i had some small bits and pieces to do. I supplied all the parts and wires. He charged me 285 despite it only taking him 4 hours. He seemed to be billing me more so for the amount of bits and pieces he did than the amount of time spent.

Mod note . This post was moved from here

true

johnwest288 wrote: »

I supplied all the parts and wires. He charged me 285 despite it only taking him 4 hours.

you were ripped off. Next time get three quotations, at least. There is a Polish electrician in south Dublin In know of who works for 20 to 25 an hour and is very good.

gerryo777

true wrote: »

you were ripped off. Next time get three quotations, at least. There is a Polish electrician in south Dublin In know of who works for 20 to 25 an hour and is very good.

Are you saying that a qualified, registered and insured electrician will answer calls and queries, travel to you, and do an hours work for €20-€25?
Would that include any certification required?
Does he pay his taxes out of that too?

Poor Uncle Tom

gerryo777 wrote: »

Are you saying that a qualified, registered and insured electrician will answer calls and queries, travel to you, and do an hours work for €20-€25?
Would that include any certification required?
Does he pay his taxes out of that too?

Don't feed the troll...;)

true

gerryo777 wrote: »

Are you saying that a qualified, registered and insured electrician will answer calls and queries, travel to you, and do an hours work for €20-€25?
Would that include any certification required?
Does he pay his taxes out of that too?

25 an hour is 250 a day for a ten hour day.
no certification required

Poor Uncle Tom

true wrote: »

you were ripped off. Next time get three quotations, at least. There is a Polish electrician in south Dublin In know of who works for 20 to 25 an hour and is very good.

Your post starts out well where you give your opinion and then some very good advice. But the final sentence has no relevance here except to troll others into a debate on foreign labour which is totally off-topic and would result in a derailed thread.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Are you saying that a qualified, registered and insured electrician will answer calls and queries, travel to you, and do an hours work for €20-€25?
Would that include any certification required?
Does he pay his taxes out of that too?

It looks like someone took the bait so....

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Don't feed the troll...;)

I put that warning on-thread in the hopes that it would suffice to get matters back on track.

true wrote: »

25 an hour is 250 a day for a ten hour day.
no certification required

But you persist in attempting to drag this thread off-topic.

So please accept this infraction as ample award for your persistence...

true

The OP asked "Should one ask the tradesman what his hourly or daily charge is? ". I gave an honest answer, advising in my opinion that given the times we are in, and assuming money is tight ( which most of us are finding ) that a person should get three quotations, at least. I know of two people who got work done by tradesmen recently. One person was elderly and did not get a quotation was was charged a fortune for a days work. Someone else got quotations and picked the cheapest of them. Some people are very hungry for work and some are not. Some may charge 50 or 100 and hour and others may charge much less. Some tradesmen may be busy and not really want the work at that particular time, or prefer to do other types of work. Some may have another job on in the area or closeby. Some may have high overheads, some may not.
Given the times we are in surely thats fair enough that people are entitled to shop around? Or do you think all tradesmen should have a minimum charge of 71.25 an hour, given the OP paid "285 despite it only taking him 4 hours"? I am not an electrician, but sometimes I have had to get tradespeople to do odd jobs and like my friends and neighbours have found the price can vary a bit, so the OP's airing of the subject can only shed light on the matter.

gerryo777

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Don't feed the troll...;)

Sorry, sorry, sorry.
I'm a registered building contractor who keeps things above board so I get a pain in my arse listening to eejit's going on about 'the polish guy I know down the road' doing things for stupid prices.
Maybe if his mate plugs in his kettle and gets blown across the room he might remember my post.
That's all.

Poor Uncle Tom

true wrote: »

The OP asked "Should one ask the tradesman what his hourly or daily charge is? ". I gave an honest answer, advising in my opinion that given the times we are in, and assuming money is tight ( which most of us are finding ) that a person should get three quotations, at least. I know of two people who got work done by tradesmen recently. One person was elderly and did not get a quotation was was charged a fortune for a days work. Someone else got quotations and picked the cheapest of them. Some people are very hungry for work and some are not. Some may charge 50 or 100 and hour and others may charge much less. Some tradesmen may be busy and not really want the work at that particular time, or prefer to do other types of work. Some may have another job on in the area or closeby. Some may have high overheads, some may not.
Given the times we are in surely thats fair enough that people are entitled to shop around? Or do you think all tradesmen should have a minimum charge of 71.25 an hour, given the OP paid "285 despite it only taking him 4 hours"? I am not an electrician, but sometimes I have had to get tradespeople to do odd jobs and like my friends and neighbours have found the price can vary a bit, so the OP's airing of the subject can only shed light on the matter.

Of course people are entitled to shop around and should even be encouraged to do so. I have already acknowledged that that part of your post was very good.

But then you post:

There is a Polish electrician in south Dublin In know of who works for 20 to 25 an hour and is very good.

which is very specific. Does it matter that this electrician is Polish? Should it matter that he's in South Dublin? I believe this part of your thread was posted to provoke a reaction which would drag this thread off topic.

Now I am quoting from our charter which you are in breach of:

2.2 Do not argue with a mod or dispute his/her instructions on thread. If you have an issue send a Private Message to the moderator.

Please read the charter, and if you need to you can PM me or one of the other moderators, if you continue to post off-topic on this thread I will ban you.

true

over in the prices/costs forum there is a thread titled " Current "day rate" for a plumber,carpenter,Electrician? "

125 to 150 a day seems to be what some different posters have found when they shopped around.

Poor Uncle Tom

true wrote: »

over in the prices/costs forum there is a thread titled " Current "day rate" for a plumber,carpenter,Electrician? "

125 to 150 a day seems to be what some different posters have found when they shopped around.

I wouldn't mind paying that for any electrician working for a few days or longer on my house but if s/he had to come specifically for a days work I wouldn't mind paying €200 or even €250 depending on the amount of work they had to do. But I wouldn't pay €285 for 4 hours work. The key really is to shop around, get a few quotes for the works, as has been said.

tunedout

true wrote: »

you were ripped off. Next time get three quotations, at least. There is a Polish electrician in south Dublin In know of who works for 20 to 25 an hour and is very good.

This doesn't read to me like it was intended to provoke a reaction atall. Looks like the mod is biased, or got some self esteem issues.

poor modding, tbh

sinnerboy

Tunedout by name and tunedout of here literally. 3 month ban for abuse , ignoring mod instruction , making groundless accusation. The only impressive aspect of your short post is the way you can compress so many offences into it.
Hallmark of a Troll.

sinnerboy

true wrote: »

no certification required

Moderator note - clarify this please

james2006

JohnWest288 - of course you need to ask the builder how much his hourly or daily rate is. Otherwise the builder can name his price - he could literally pick a number off the top of his head. It may sound harsh - and no offence - but in this situation - a fool and his money are soon parted! definitely

true

sinnerboy wrote: »

Moderator note - clarify this please

There was no certification required. The electrician came, done the work, got paid and went. Gave a receipt but no need for certification or any other paperwork.

sydthebeat

true wrote: »

There was no certification required. The electrician came, done the work, got paid and went. Gave a receipt but no need for certification or any other paperwork.

what work did you get done that did not need certification?

true

sydthebeat wrote: »

what work did you get done that did not need certification?

I did not get any work done that did not need certification. The other person I believe needed some lights put up.

james2006 wrote: »

JohnWest288 - of course you need to ask the builder how much his hourly or daily rate is. Otherwise the builder can name his price - he could literally pick a number off the top of his head. It may sound harsh - and no offence - but in this situation - a fool and his money are soon parted! definitely

Well said...but some people are too shy to ask what their hourly or daily rate is. I guess with some tradespeople it could vary with the customer, depending on their customer etc, and vary on the job, depending on how convenient it is to do etc. Sometimes as in all business people will charge what the market will bear, and who can blame them sometimes.
Whats noticeable is how labour rates have come down since the celtic tiger days e.g. on the prices/costs forum there is the thread on average daily rates for a tradesman and some posters are saying eg in Kerry qualified tradespeople can be got for €125 a day. Quote:

isaos wrote: »

In Kerry, fully legit (and competent) professional can be found for €125 per day + €90 for helper.

sinnerboy

true wrote: »

There was no certification required. The electrician came, done the work, got paid and went. Gave a receipt but no need for certification or any other paperwork.

Thanks for answering - but - who determined there was "no need for certification". Was that your call or the electricians ?

johnwest288

I did actually get a quote from him for the bits and bobs and thought it was a fair price as i assumed it would take the guts of a day larking about tbh.

He billed me in a per job format. Ie worked out approx 35 Quid per job roughly which I thought wasnt bad.
I got the feeling he knew he would have it done in no time, and as such charged me as per jobs done as opposed to time spent doing them.
So what im really asking what way do tradesman charge out and is it better to get a day rate or hourly rate first and THEN show them what you need done?

sinnerboy

johnwest288 wrote: »

it better to get a day rate or hourly rate first and THEN show them what you need done?

You risk tasks expanding to fill time then

sydthebeat

johnwest288 wrote: »

So what im really asking what way do tradesman charge out and is it better to get a day rate or hourly rate first and THEN show them what you need done?

no...

you show the tradesman what you want done.... you clearly define what you want the results to be... and you ask him how much to do it. Forget about time taken to do it.

do this for at least 3 tradesmen, more if possible.

when youve agreed on the work to be done, the standard of the completed work and the price, the time taken doesnt come into the equation.

true

johnwest288 wrote: »

So what im really asking what way do tradesman charge out and is it better to get a day rate or hourly rate first and THEN show them what you need done?

You can pay them by the day but then they could turn up late, spend half the day chatting, take a long lunch, disappear for an hour to get a part etc. Watchdog in the UK done a programme on that. So you have to be careful. Pay by day rate if you have good recommendations from previous trusted known ( to you) clients of the tradesman.
No harm to ask for a daily rate to help screen the applicants for the work. Say " Roughly how long do you think it will take? " Best probably then is to get 3 or 4 quotes for the job. With many tradesmen now working for €125 a day ( as shown on the prices / costs forum ), it will so become clear who is expensive and who is not. So a combination of the 2....especially if you have got recommendations from others about how hard the tradesman works for his days pay.

sinnerboy wrote: »

who determined there was "no need for certification".

As I said the electrician came to put up a few lights, he came when he said he would, he put up the lights , got paid and gave a receipt and went. Thats all I know. Should the customer have got a certificate to show to the ESB to say his wall lights are now " certifiabially" installed? I did not interogate the person who got the lights put up about "certification" lol.

Like going for a meal, you compare the prices in advance ( or at least have some clue : you do not commission a restaurant or chef who will not indicate his / their prices ), you get the goods/service, you pay and get the receipt and are happy. You do not look for certificates. If someones needs to put a light on a wall in a room, where just wires were coming out of the wall ( and were since the house was built years ago ), I doubt if the ESB are interested in requiring a cert. to see if the light has been put up correctly.

sinnerboy

true wrote: »

As I said the electrician came to put up a few lights, he came when he said he would, he put up the lights , got paid and gave a receipt and went. Thats all I know. Should the customer have got a certificate to show to the ESB to say his wall lights are now " certifiabially" installed? I did not interogate the person who got the lights put up about "certification" lol..

Your "shop around" advice is very good and backed up with good arguments.

But all electrical installations must comply with Building Regulations with respect to Fire Safety which requires all installations to conform to ETCI rules. And the only way to demonstarte this is to have the installtion inspected and certified by an electrician registered with either RECI or ECCSA.

Are your light fittings earthed? They should be.

These rules are for the safety of all who use a building it's not a case showing the ESB anything.

Inspections and certification services can be availed of from either RECI or ECSSA post installation. But really it's better to have the cert issued by the installer at the time.

sydthebeat

true wrote: »

......I doubt if the ESB are interested in requiring a cert. to see if the light has been put up correctly.

In a domestic situation if the wiring is altered in any way at all, the work requires certification.

There are rules to prevent "doubt" creeping in.......

true

sydthebeat wrote: »

In a domestic situation if the wiring is altered in any way at all, the work requires certification.

so you are saying that if you get an electrician in to do a small job, like putting up a wall light ( in a building where the wires were coming out of the wall ready for the installation of the light ) its not enough just to get a reputable electrician, who does the job and gives a receipt.....you have to get "certification" as well?

Its not rocket science....no need to charge for it as if it is. There is a recession on. Its not even against the law for someone to put up their own light if they are competent to do so.

sinnerboy

The law requires that a building owner complies with building regulations.

When clients purchase a second hand property I always advise a RECI or ECSSA cert is obtained to identify any issues that may arise from the previous owner who may well share your views

true

sinnerboy wrote: »

The law requires that a building owner complies with building regulations.

Correct.

sinnerboy wrote: »

When clients purchase a second hand property I always advise a RECI or ECSSA cert is obtained to identify any issues that may arise from the previous owner who may well share your views

Oh my God. The qualified experienced electrician who came along at a later date and put up a wall light ( where existing wires were ) may have wired the light wrong. Shock Horror. Better close the house down in case its unsafe ( even though the light has been work fine for a good while ) and get a higghly paid crack RECI team in to inspect every single light fitting in the house.

If I am ever buying a house I must make sure every single job ever done by a tradesman in the house, even the plugs wired, must be certified. Just done by a reputable qualified tradesman who gave a receipt is not enough.

Before I eat in a restaurant anymore I am going to ask to see current health and safety certs, chefs qualifications, health board compliance, public liability insurance etc. You an never be too safe.

sinnerboy

Calm down. You don't have to do anything. The guy after you does

true

sinnerboy wrote: »

You don't have to do anything. The guy after you does

It was not my house the light was put up in.

You have made a start towards a new joke anyway. How many RECI electricians does it take to change a light bulb? Three...one to change the bulb, one to inspect and issue certification, and one to charge a huge bill for making sure such difficult, complicated and dangerous work is "certified" ....and to discourage questions about hourly or daily wage rates. .

This is my last post on this thread. Moral of the story : in these difficult times, if money is tight then price around for your reputable friendly qualified tradesman. As on the prices/costs section, some other posters say that in their locality good tradespeople can be got now for €125 a day. ( not an hour).

sydthebeat

true wrote: »

so you are saying that if you get an electrician in to do a small job, like putting up a wall light ( in a building where the wires were coming out of the wall ready for the installation of the light ) its not enough just to get a reputable electrician, who does the job and gives a receipt.....you have to get "certification" as well?
.

... what im saying is this

In a domestic situation if the wiring is altered in any way at all, the work requires certification.

There are rules to prevent "doubt" creeping in.......

I think thats easily understandable.

sinnerboy

The economic cycle can be used by those who wish to disregard any legislation.

In recession - don't have the money. In boom times won't pay Celtic Tiger prices. Seek out the short cut in either case.

In point of fact the simple act of 2nd fixing a light fitting to pre installed wiring can be potentially hazardous. If the first fix has no earth strand as many older (25+ years) properties will not, someone may get a shock one day changing the bulb. Easy enough to disregard if it's not your own house I suppose.

Simply seeking out a RECI or ECSSA registered electrician and asking for certification is not difficult or expensive. Neither is seeking a RECI/ECSSA inspection after the event - circa €300-400. Compliance with building regulations - ones legal duty. Concern for one's own safety and that of others- a moral duty.

ronan45

I got a sparks over last night. Now the work, is

1 Swap 1 Broken Porch Light with new one
2 Put in power socket in garden for pond fountain
3 Replace 6 garden lights on the wall and gate (old ones lok crap Bulk head style)
4 Put thermostat on immersion tank
5 Fit dimmer switches to standard light switches x 2
6 Install 2 x under counter kitchen lights
7 Extra Power socket outside of shed
8 Fit PIR to Porch light
9 Install light in Cloak room Power allready there from plug
10 Install extra light in shed

Now the garden/shed is all rigged for electricity so its basically swapping lights job and a few small bits and bobs in house.
Reckon its 6 hours tops and asked how much it would be, he couldnt tell me and needs a day or 2 to quote me. Ok fair enough. Would he not know its a days work? All lights etc supplied and wire

Spread

sinnerboy wrote: »

The economic cycle can be used by those who wish to disregard any legislation.

In recession - don't have the money. In boom times won't pay Celtic Tiger prices. Seek out the short cut in either case.

In point of fact the simple act of 2nd fixing a light fitting to pre installed wiring can be potentially hazardous. If the first fix has no earth strand as many older (25+ years) properties will not, someone may get a shock one day changing the bulb. Easy enough to disregard if it's not your own house I suppose.

Simply seeking out a RECI or ECSSA registered electrician and asking for certification is not difficult or expensive. Neither is seeking a RECI/ECSSA inspection after the event - circa €300-400. Compliance with building regulations - ones legal duty. Concern for one's own safety and that of others- a moral duty.

And if the fittings are made of plastic?

sinnerboy

That would be an ecumenical question ok