less land than i bought

shrek008

Hi, i bid at auction for a deceased neighbours farm,it was advertised as 42acres,i was highest bidder at auction but it was withdrawn and we agreed to settle on a purchase price a few days later,when i received maps and folios etc i noticed that there was no acreage on one parcel of land so i got an engineer to measure it and his measurements show that there is only 40 acres in the entire holding.as i have only paid booking deposit and no contracts have been signed would i be justified in requesting that the sale price should be reduced accordingly to reflect new acreage.I think i would have a strong case but i would like someone elses opinion.

crackcrack30

False advertising........

Vandy West

Would definitely flag it to the seller. If there is a lot of road frontage make sure your engineer included 1/2 of the road width, which although isn't 'land' should be included in the total area. Easy for mistake of that range to happen due to old maps, moved ditches/boundaries or road re-alignment, so at least give the seller a chance to get an engineer to back up his figures.

raindodger

lets face it you either want it or dont.Most times the area is given as circa which covers auctioner

Tipp Man

Did you not check the maps before the auction??

Do the maps say 40 or 42 acres? You could (politely) ask the auctioneer to show you where he gets 42 acres before you go looking for a price reduction.

You could indeed have a valid claim - however as mentioned above you need to be sure your engineer has included roads, rivers etc which will be included in the maps

charliecon

Definitely dispute it, I know a lad personally who bought land at auction and then discovered it was short one and a half acres than what was advertised . Because this was not announced prior to the bidding commencing he refused to pay for the non existing acres and got a ten grand reduction on the price.
Initially the seller refused and continued to do so for at least 3 weeks but your man held firm and was prepared to abandon the whole sale and go to court for the return of his deposit . So if I were in your shoes I would do likewise , they are in the wrong .

milkprofit

What price did you pay was it good value
if going to banks they will need to see all land

shrek008

Thanks for replies,i paid €5000 an acre,however there are no entitlements with the land.Its a nice parcel of good land and its next door to me,everyone tells me it was cheap but €210000 +€4200 stamp duty + solicitor €2100 + land registry €560 + banks solicitor €1100 seems a helluva lot money to me!
The maps i received before auction were not very clear and some of the measurements couldnt be made out so i just assumed that what they said they had,they had!surely it is up to vendor and auctioneer to check all this out before they go about selling it!

notsobusy

Never assume!!!

You should have got your own person to have a look at it before you bought. But sounds like you might have a case anyway. I would go with Tipp Man's advice.

Cavanjack

shrek008 wrote: »

Thanks for replies,i paid €5000 an acre,however there are no entitlements with the land.Its a nice parcel of good land and its next door to me,everyone tells me it was cheap but €210000 +€4200 stamp duty + solicitor €2100 + land registry €560 + banks solicitor €1100 seems a helluva lot money to me!
The maps i received before auction were not very clear and some of the measurements couldnt be made out so i just assumed that what they said they had,they had!surely it is up to vendor and auctioneer to check all this out before they go about selling it!

Seems like good value at 5k an acre. Chances are you would have still paid 210k even if it were advertised as 40 acres or maybe even 35acres. As a previous poster said you must include half the width of roads and ditches in the total area. Maybe your engineering hasn't included this. Maybe you can check the area yourself on google planimeter. I've used it myself and find it is very accurate.

Farmer Pudsey

Have you checked the area on the folio it will not matter what is on the maps it is what is stated on the folio. As well I believe that at land auctions it is sold as seen and they are allowed to be up to 2 acres out believe it or not

maidhc

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Have you checked the area on the folio it will not matter what is on the maps it is what is stated on the folio. As well I believe that at land auctions it is sold as seen and they are allowed to be up to 2 acres out believe it or not

It wasn't sold in auction!

shrek008

There was no acreage stated on the folio of one of the parcels of land, thats why i got an engineer to measure it up.

keep going

its often the case,i know of a place advertised as 55 and there is only 50.the one thing id say is that if you managed to get good land at 5k an acre,i would get that signed and sealed asap before anyone finds out .i mean its cheap for 40 acres never mind 42 so id say count your blessings ,after all the land that you bought is the same.mind you i would say it but not make a big deal out of it just in case there might be something they would be looking for and it would be a handy chip in the game

Farmer Pudsey

keep going wrote: »

its often the case,i know of a place advertised as 55 and there is only 50.the one thing id say is that if you managed to get good land at 5k an acre,i would get that signed and sealed asap before anyone finds out .i mean its cheap for 40 acres never mind 42 so id say count your blessings ,after all the land that you bought is the same.mind you i would say it but not make a big deal out of it just in case there might be something they would be looking for and it would be a handy chip in the game

I wouldn't be inclined to look a gift horse in the mouth either if you try it on they may decide to put it up again and then you might see a few come out of the woodwork @ 5000 or 5200 euro an acre if it is good land it is value

Man of Aran

Good rich fertile soils, good for tillage should fetch in the region of 9 to 11k a statute acre.
Whereabouts is this plot?
Unless its on a rocky desolate cliff, sounds like a good deal.
Let me know if you are having 2nd thoughts yourself .... ;-)

arctictree

Man of Aran wrote: »

Good rich fertile soils, good for tillage should fetch in the region of 9 to 11k a statute acre.
Whereabouts is this plot?
Unless its on a rocky desolate cliff, sounds like a good deal.
Let me know if you are having 2nd thoughts yourself .... ;-)

I've noticed that any land that has been sold recently for >10K an acre has had lots of post sale publicity about the sale price. This gives you the impression of this being the average price for good land. As far as I know, there are lots of deals being done for around the 5K mark but there is no publicity about this. This is especially the case for plots that have been on the market for a while.

Figerty

It depends on the land, in west clare I know of some farms making €3000/acre or in other words Forestry Value.

Price always sounds better if there are sheds involved and farm roads.

shrek008

maybe smaller parcels of land may be making 10k+ an acre,but is anyone seriously telling me that its worth that kind of money!

Farmer Pudsey

shrek008 wrote: »

maybe smaller parcels of land may be making 10k+ an acre,but is anyone seriously telling me that its worth that kind of money!

Did you ever hear the saying that land is only dear the day you buy it. What we pay for land has no economic logic however. However good quality land at 5000 euro an acre is value and if I had the money I would buy it

Man of Aran

Thanks for the reality check lads .... seems the prices I've been hearing are closer to hectare price than st.acre on average or behind the scenes of daily papers/IFJ headlines as 'artictree' kindly pointed out. This is very true when you are abroad and just catch snippets of stories.

Makes my search for up to 50acre cropping land in SEast / KK / TP more interesting again.

OP - sorry to butt into your thread too much.

shrek008

Thanks for all the comments guys,i contacted the auctioneer today and he says that the vendors solicitor should have checked all maps and measurements before contracts were drawn up.I have decided to take the matter up with the vendor over the weekend and take it from there,i dont want to lose the land but i do think its a bit rich to sell 42acres when u only have 40.im gonna shake the tree n c what falls,any price reduction would b a bonus! i will let ye know what happens.

Good loser

I would advise you to pay up and say nothing.

It was up to you to check before buying.

You had the maps - there was no need to trust the stated acres.

maidhc

Good loser wrote: »

I would advise you to pay up and say nothing.

It was up to you to check before buying.

You had the maps - there was no need to trust the stated acres.

he clearly hasn't bought anything yet, so is within his rights to see the case for a reduction.

arctictree

Man of Aran wrote: »

Thanks for the reality check lads .... seems the prices I've been hearing are closer to hectare price than st.acre on average or behind the scenes of daily papers/IFJ headlines as 'artictree' kindly pointed out. This is very true when you are abroad and just catch snippets of stories.

Makes my search for up to 50acre cropping land in SEast / KK / TP more interesting again.

OP - sorry to butt into your thread too much.

A bit off topic but surley the FJ should be trumpeting low land prices. I mean, thats good for farmers, right?

Farmer Pudsey

arctictree wrote: »

A bit off topic but surley the FJ should be trumpeting low land prices. I mean, thats good for farmers, right?

But who pays for the adds in the property section

shrek008

Hi Guys,i contacted vendor,pointed out to him that according to certified engineers report there is mow 38.4 acres!! In the parcel of land that started off at circa 42 acres! He asked me what i was looking for and i told him i would leave it up to himself to come back to me with a fair proposal.
Next day my solicitor received a letter from vendors solicitor saying that since i have lived beside this land all my life i should have known exactly what area was involved and that if they dont have signed contracts and balance of deposit in their office by close of business tomorrow 23rd they will consider the matter to be at an end.
Dont have any choice now only pay up and shut up,so much for trying to be nice to the neighbours! Thanks for all the advice n comments everyone.

Man of Aran

Sorry to hear they took the heavy handed approach at your friendly attempt at dialogue.
Best of luck and hope the land works out well for you in the end, PG.

Farmer Pudsey

shrek008 wrote: »

Hi Guys,i contacted vendor,pointed out to him that according to certified engineers report there is mow 38.4 acres!! In the parcel of land that started off at circa 42 acres! He asked me what i was looking for and i told him i would leave it up to himself to come back to me with a fair proposal.
Next day my solicitor received a letter from vendors solicitor saying that since i have lived beside this land all my life i should have known exactly what area was involved and that if they dont have signed contracts and balance of deposit in their office by close of business tomorrow 23rd they will consider the matter to be at an end.
Dont have any choice now only pay up and shut up,so much for trying to be nice to the neighbours! Thanks for all the advice n comments everyone.

Well most of us did tell you, as for being nice to the neighbours you have a choice you can throw it up and leave him put it up for public auction it might make less if is the type of land you said it is I'd doubt it.
About 7-8 years ago near me a lad was offered land by a neighbour who was putting it up for auction ( now it was at the height of the Tiger) for 10,000 euro per acre. The day of the auction it made nearly 17,000 per acre and it was the same man that bought it and the vendor gave him no discount afterwards like I said never look a gift horse in the mouth. Also I find it hard to believe that one of the folio has no acerage on it I mean the folio not the map.
On my farm there is an area that over laps three other farms it is given a common acerage on the maps for it however it states on my folio my total acerage it is a wetland

cow man

Two different sales beside me it was the same story and both times someone else was in like a shot willing to pay the origenal price

Farmer Pudsey

Well shrek is the sale complete

shrek008

Hi guys,sorry for delay in replying.I have paid over all money and have signed all relevant docs,however just to prove that there is a God read on!!
The vendor(same one that told me to shutup and payup) employed an engineer to outline and certify the site of the house on the map that formed part of the legally binding contract that we all signed.( sorry i dont think i mentioned that there is a dwelling house on the land that i did not buy and is still for sale)anyway this genius of an engineer drew the outline of the site way too small with the result that there is no room for the septic tank,never mind the perculation system,thus rendering the house,valued at circa €100k,unsaleable unless i agree to an extension of the boundry!
Funny old world,isnt it!

Tipp Man

shrek008 wrote: »

Hi guys,sorry for delay in replying.I have paid over all money and have signed all relevant docs,however just to prove that there is a God read on!!
The vendor(same one that told me to shutup and payup) employed an engineer to outline and certify the site of the house on the map that formed part of the legally binding contract that we all signed.( sorry i dont think i mentioned that there is a dwelling house on the land that i did not buy and is still for sale)anyway this genius of an engineer drew the outline of the site way too small with the result that there is no room for the septic tank,never mind the perculation system,thus rendering the house,valued at circa €100k,unsaleable unless i agree to an extension of the boundry!
Funny old world,isnt it!

Karma:D

bob charles

cheap house for you so

reps4

hi,

hijacking here. a few months ago there was a link to area measurement on another thread, not the google or acme one, it was another that contained folio numbers and parcel info.

anybody happen to know it, cant fine it in any search.

Thanks.

Conmaicne Mara

reps4 wrote: »

hi,

hijacking here. a few months ago there was a link to area measurement on another thread, not the google or acme one, it was another that contained folio numbers and parcel info.

anybody happen to know it, cant fine it in any search.

Thanks.

Is this it?

http://www.landdirect.ie/eng/

Sam Kade

reps4 wrote: »

hi,

hijacking here. a few months ago there was a link to area measurement on another thread, not the google or acme one, it was another that contained folio numbers and parcel info.

anybody happen to know it, cant fine it in any search.

Thanks.

http://spatial.dcenr.gov.ie/imf/imf.jsp?site=GSI_Simple
This is what you are looking for.