Does 'Not for individual resale' have any legal standing

CIARAN_BOYLE

Question is above, I went into a small newsagent today and the majority of goods on the shelfs had the label 'not for individual resale'.

It got me wondering does that tag have any legal standing, legally prohibiting the buyer of multipacks from breaking them up and reselling individually or is it just the wish of the retailer.

aN.Droid

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Question is above, I went into a small newsagent today and the majority of goods on the shelfs had the label 'not for individual resale'.

It got me wondering does that tag have any legal standing, legally prohibiting the buyer of multipacks from breaking them up and reselling individually or is it just the wish of the retailer.

As far as I know it is not illegal for a shop to sell these items. But the producer of the goods may not like it, the best thing to do if you don't like it is to email the producers and let them know.

coylemj

If he's a 'small' newsagent I wouldn't begrudge him the opportunity to make his living. He's probably buying multipacks, splitting them and then selling them as singles.

Are we talking about the likes of Kit-Kats? If he was selling stuff that came as freebies I might object but if he's just breaking multipacks I can't see any harm in it.

KERSPLAT!

One of my local pubs sells cans of bulmers from multi packs! They cost €15 for 8 cans in the local supervalu and the pub sells them on for €4 a pop! :mad:

CIARAN_BOYLE

coylemj wrote: »

If he's a 'small' newsagent I wouldn't begrudge him the opportunity to make his living. He's probably buying multipacks, splitting them and then selling them as singles.

Are we talking about the likes of Kit-Kats? If he was selling stuff that came as freebies I might object but if he's just breaking multipacks I can't see any harm in it.

Kit-kats, soft drinks, beer. I'm assuming it was broken multipacks.

I'm wondering if the fact that not for individual sale was on the items means that its a term of the contract of sale that the goods are not to be sold individually and the producers could persue the shop for damages.

MyKeyG

As far as I know the printing of 'not to be sold separately' is merely an instruction to the retailer. Once a retailer receives goods they're entitled to sell it any way they want whether that be selling a multipack separately or advertising two for the price of one at the expense of their own pocket. It works both ways.

The bigger stores won't do it because it looks like the retailer is taking advantage of the goodwill passed on to them by the supplier and might affect business.

MyKeyG

IPAM wrote: »

One of my local pubs sells cans of bulmers from multi packs! They cost €15 for 8 cans in the local supervalu and the pub sells them on for €4 a pop! :mad:

Every pub does that when you think about it. Whether it's bottles of Heineken or cans of Bulmers you're paying at least double in a pub what you would in an off license. Does 'not to be sold separately' make any difference in the long run?

kirving

Remember too, that the multi-pack items don't usually have a barcode on them so the retailer can put whatever they like through the till if they think the customer won't notice.

ham_n_mustard

there's no legal standing for the suppliers/manufacturers to stop the shops selling them. my missus saw multipack cans being sold loose in a supermarket. being the bad-minded bítch she is, she emailed coca cola, thinking she would get some sort of cola-based reward for ratting on the supermarket.... apparently they dont really care, and said that they have no legal grounds to oblige shops to not sell multipack items seperately

Cedrus

The manufacture/distributor packs product differently (cans, bottles, multipacks) for different markets or outlets and wants them sold that way and at their recommended price (RRP) but it's the retailer decision to cooperate or not. It's also the suppliers right to stop supplying them if they think their corporate image is being compromised.
Controlled products like cigarettes and alchohol are different and standard pack/portion sizes are stipulated in law and cannot be split up.

coylemj

There's nothing to stop a shop from selling individual Smarties if they want to. The only item that the law prohibits being sold in small quantities is cigarettes.

The reason large shops can't break multipacks is because the individual items in a multipack typically have no barcodes.

Motorist

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

there's no legal standing for the suppliers/manufacturers to stop the shops selling them. my missus saw multipack cans being sold loose in a supermarket. being the bad-minded bítch she is, she emailed coca cola, thinking she would get some sort of cola-based reward for ratting on the supermarket.... apparently they dont really care, and said that they have no legal grounds to oblige shops to not sell multipack items seperately

Nice, sounds accurate though - bit of a busy body.

Del2005

IPAM wrote: »

One of my local pubs sells cans of bulmers from multi packs! They cost €15 for 8 cans in the local supervalu and the pub sells them on for €4 a pop! :mad:

The Supervalu didn't pay anywhere near €15 for the 8 cans.

Victor

Another issue may be food labelling - the individual packs may not have the ingredients and nutritional information and weight listed.

Del2005 wrote: »

The Supervalu didn't pay anywhere near €15 for the 8 cans.

Neither does the pub.

Procrastastudy

ham_n_mustard wrote: »

there's no legal standing for the suppliers/manufacturers to stop the shops selling them. my missus saw multipack cans being sold loose in a supermarket. being the bad-minded bítch she is, she emailed coca cola, thinking she would get some sort of cola-based reward for ratting on the supermarket.... apparently they dont really care, and said that they have no legal grounds to oblige shops to not sell multipack items seperately

Romance, it seems, is not dead!

Carawaystick

Victor wrote: »

Another issue may be food labelling - the individual packs may not have the ingredients and nutritional information and weight listed.

or the address of the importer and the abv; the only requirements for selling beer...

an on license may have to sell in certain size amounts however.

RandolphEsq

IPAM wrote: »

One of my local pubs sells cans of bulmers from multi packs! They cost €15 for 8 cans in the local supervalu and the pub sells them on for €4 a pop! :mad:

If they sell cans then surely you could just bring in your own and they wouldn't notice.

krd

Once there was a shop around the corner from me. Where they split the Sunday Times, and other papers, into the individual segments and tried to sell each separately.

Within weeks of doing this, they very predictably, went bust.

Cedrus

krd wrote: »

Once there was a shop around the corner from me. Where they split the Sunday Times, and other papers, into the individual segments and tried to sell each separately.

Within weeks of doing this, they very predictably, went bust.

I've noticed over the years that there seems to be a relationship between a shop selling split multipacks and the shop going bust. It's as if their credit at the wholesalers has run out so they get stock wherever they can?

Victor

RandolphEsq wrote: »

If they sell cans then surely you could just bring in your own and they wouldn't notice.

The cans sold in on- and off-licences tend to be different.

GarIT

Just a thought from reading this thread, it could be a good idea for the manufacturers to be tactical and purposely take the nutritional information off things that are sold in multi-packs making it illegal to sell them individually. I wouldn't buy something that was not for individual resale unless it was a lot cheaper than other places.

Procrastastudy

We should only ever buy from large multinationals - preferably based out of state. I know I'd throw my local shopkeeper under the bus for 3c off a mars bar and the right packaging. Bloody rip of merchants living in their €5m mansions driving round in Maybacks! Personally I'd drive for an hour to get pot noodle at 89c rather than 109c ESPECIALLY IF my loacl had the gaul to use a Multipack!!!

Support the CEO of Tesco people poor guy can barely afford his super yacht!

RandolphEsq

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

We should only ever buy from large multinationals - preferably based out of state. I know I'd throw my local shopkeeper under the bus for 3c off a mars bar and the right packaging. Bloody rip of merchants living in their €5m mansions driving round in Maybacks! Personally I'd drive for an hour to get pot noodle at 89c rather than 109c ESPECIALLY IF my loacl had the gaul to use a Multipack!!!

Support the CEO of Tesco people poor guy can barely afford his super yacht!

I don't think anybody is begrudging the small shopkeepers' right to make a living here when contending whether there is a legal right for them to sell multipack goods separately.

In fact, I think that if it allows a consumer to buy a single can of coke from a multipack for twenty percent less from their local newsagents than if it was not from a multipack the consumer will be happy with this.

Procrastastudy

Please don't think I'm having a go at the OP - the legal question in it self is fair enough. Its the assertions that local newsagents etc should be reported or have some kind of sneaky packing regulation used against them that I took issue with.

I don't think the local newsagent is going to charge you 20% less becuase its from a multipack though. Have we all got that tight that €1 for a can of coke is so unreasonable from a bloke with one shop in the local area? Does it really matter where it came from as long as it is actually what it says it is and is in date?

In our quest to banish rip off Ireland we're all going to end up driving to the massive hyper market that's put everyone else out of business paying more than we ever did because we where disgusted with the local newsie making enought to pay his mortgage and run his 02 reg Astra. I think its called the WAL-MART effect.

EDIT: On that topic: I would have thought Tesco etc probably ARE bound by it as they probably have a contract with the supplier which says so. Local newsie is probably buying from the local cash and carry - could there be a contract though there perhaps? Do you have to have a membership card to buy from the C&C - perhaps in that contract?

MyKeyG

RandolphEsq wrote: »

I don't think anybody is begrudging the small shopkeepers' right to make a living here when contending whether there is a legal right for them to sell multipack goods separately.

I certainly am. We all have to make a living and all businesses are struggling it doesn't justify cutting corners legal or otherwise. Compared to other countries Irish businesses don't get a bad deal tax wise.

Shelflife

MyKeyG wrote: »

I certainly am. We all have to make a living and all businesses are struggling it doesn't justify cutting corners legal or otherwise. Compared to other countries Irish businesses don't get a bad deal tax wise.

First of all there is no legal obligation to sell a multipack product as a multipack.

Mykeyg you begrudge the shopkeeper making a living but then you state we all have to make a living?? whats the difference.

There are a number of reasons for splitting multipacks.

Sometimes its cheaper to buy a 4 x 6pk of coke then a 24pk single case, if the shop splits it and sells them as singles whats the problem? you get your 330ml can of coke for the usual price , the retailer makes a few cents extra and it helps him stay in business.

Sometimes the supplier sends the wrong product, multipack instead of a singles pack, the retailer has to either split the packs or lose sales because they dont have single cans.

Sometimes the multipacks split or gets damaged and you have to sell them in singles.

Im not sure what the tax deal crap has to do with anything, most small retailers are sole traders and effectively pay at paye rates, those that are companies pay at company rates and any money they take out of the business are taxed at paye rates so im not sure what your point is.

coylemj

There is no legal impediment to a retailer breaking a multipack and selling the items separately.

I buy the bags of small chocolate bars - Kit-Kat, Aero, Dairy Milk etc. I just checked my tin of goodies and every bar has the ingredients listed, all that's missing is the barcode. Some but not all have nutritional information as well.

Someone mentioned earlier that the absence of this data would potentially prevent the items from being legally sold separatly.

MyKeyG

Shelflife wrote: »

First of all there is no legal obligation to sell a multipack product as a multipack.

Mykeyg you begrudge the shopkeeper making a living but then you state we all have to make a living?? whats the difference.

Well if you had read my post you would see I don't begrudge anybody anything. It's the cutting corners I'm opposed to. We all have to make an honest living and I don't believe what these shop keepers do when they split multipacks is honest. Of course if you had read my post correctly you wouldn't have been able to fabricate an argument.

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

There is no legal impediment to a retailer breaking a multipack and selling the items separately.

There may be - contract.

I buy the bags of small chocolate bars - Kit-Kat, Aero, Dairy Milk etc. I just checked my tin of goodies and every bar has the ingredients listed, all that's missing is the barcode. Some but not all have nutritional information as well.

We're not generally talking about those. We're talking about things like a manufacturer offering a three for two price/package deal or a multi-pack of standard size items that can also be bought individually and the retailer not passing that on the unit discount.

It is price gouging, plain and simple.

coylemj

coylemj wrote: »

There is no legal impediment to a retailer breaking a multipack and selling the items separately.

Victor wrote: »

There may be - contract.

The type of retailer we're talking about buys from a cash & carry so there is no contract.

coylemj wrote: »

I buy the bags of small chocolate bars - Kit-Kat, Aero, Dairy Milk etc. I just checked my tin of goodies and every bar has the ingredients listed, all that's missing is the barcode. Some but not all have nutritional information as well.

Someone mentioned earlier that the absence of this data would potentially prevent the items from being legally sold separatly.

Victor wrote: »

We're not generally talking about those. We're talking about things like a manufacturer offering a three for two price/package deal or a multi-pack of standard size items that can also be bought individually and the retailer not passing that on the unit discount.

It was actually you yourself who raised that very issue, last Thursday....

Victor wrote: »

Another issue may be food labelling - the individual packs may not have the ingredients and nutritional information and weight listed.

fasttalkerchat

Multipack products may not have nutritional information on each individual item.

Avatargh

coylemj wrote: »

There's nothing to stop a shop from selling individual Smarties if they want to. The only item that the law prohibits being sold in small quantities is cigarettes.

The reason large shops can't break multipacks is because the individual items in a multipack typically have no barcodes.

I would doubt that as a general proposition.

I would assume that the particular legalities would depend entirely on the contract between the parties. If a supplier supplies goods to a retailed on particular terms, and if those terms are breached, that's a breach of contract. I'm not sure its any more complex than that...

MyKeyG

Avatargh wrote: »

I would doubt that as a general proposition.

I would assume that the particular legalities would depend entirely on the contract between the parties. If a supplier supplies goods to a retailed on particular terms, and if those terms are breached, that's a breach of contract. I'm not sure its any more complex than that...

I would imagine so. The reason the manufacturer does multipack is to offer a saving as a reward for buying in bulk. I would imagine the supplier offers it on the basis that the saving will be passed on to the customer.

I simply don't agree with the practice. It's sneaky and no amount of 'you're begrudging a living' will change my mind.

coylemj

Small retailer goes to cash & carry, buys a box of multipacks, goes back to his shop, splits the multipacks into individual items and sells them.

What 'contract' has been broken? He has no contract with the manufacturer because he hasn't bought from them or signed any Ts & Cs and the Cash & Carry probably doesn't give a XXXX.

Shelflife

MyKeyG wrote: »

I would imagine so. The reason the manufacturer does multipack is to offer a saving as a reward for buying in bulk. I would imagine the supplier offers it on the basis that the saving will be passed on to the customer.

I simply don't agree with the practice. It's sneaky and no amount of 'you're begrudging a living' will change my mind.

If you take the senario that a retailer buys a case of multipack coke say 6pks. he splits them and sell thems them as singles.

you come into the shop and you buy one can for the usual price, the only difference is that on this can it states not for individual reale and the other can it doesnt. you as a customer havent lost out in any way.

youre not buying in bulk you are buying a single can, the retailer makes 5% extra and stays in business a bit longer, whats sneaky about that? its either that or add 5% on to the price of the single can.

The suppliers cant force you to not split the multipack, but if you are buying directly from them they can refuse to supply you if you are tearing the arse off it.

mykeyg I would agree with you that its better to sell the multipacks as multipacks but somethimes if you want to avoid a price increase some retailers split them.

drkpower

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Multipack products may not have nutritional information on each individual item.

In the vast majority of cases, it isn't a legal requirement to have nutritional info on packaging.

coylemj

drkpower wrote: »

In the vast majority of cases, it isn't a legal requirement to have nutritional info on packaging.

And in the only instance where anyone actually looked (me), the data was printed on the individual items - small chocolate bars from both Cadburys and Nestle.

MyKeyG

OK no the customer isn't missing out. I go in to buy a can of coke and I get one, fair enough I just feel that it's a bit, I don't know, sneaky. There are lots of businesses who don't split multipacks. I see it going on and I see greed. It's just me.

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

And in the only instance where anyone actually looked (me), the data was printed on the individual items - small chocolate bars from both Cadburys and Nestle.

I'm keeping a food diary at the moment and I get annoyed at some products that have confusing, inadequate or innumerate data, e.g. more saturated fats than total fats. I was annoyed that the Bounty Bar I bought had no nutritional data. Now that we are discussing it, it also had no bar code.

coylemj

Victor wrote: »

I was annoyed that the Bounty Bar I bought had no nutritional data.

Bounty is a Mars product, all of my Cadburys and Nestle bars had ingredients listed though only some of them had nutritional data, mainly through lack of space on the label.

Victor wrote: »

Now that we are discussing it, it also had no bar code.

No barcode = split multipack.

Avatargh

coylemj wrote: »

Small retailer goes to cash & carry, buys a box of multipacks, goes back to his shop, splits the multipacks into individual items and sells them.

What 'contract' has been broken? He has no contract with the manufacturer because he hasn't bought from them or signed any Ts & Cs and the Cash & Carry probably doesn't give a XXXX.

There is a difference between a contract not existing, and a contract existing and someone not caring about it. There are cases about things like this, and injunctions are brought for less. One way of looking at it, depending on the particular facts, might be Cash & Carry acting as agent for Manufacturer offering for sale goods on particular terms and conditions, printed on their front forming part of the contract, binding purchaser to manufacturer. Indeed, the Cash & Carry may start caring when its large supplier starts complaining to it that its assisting in breaches of its supply agreement to it.

Again, it depends entirely on the facts and you'll find in practice that lots and time and effort go into drafting agreements with precisely this kind of thing in mind.

coylemj

Avatargh wrote: »

There is a difference between a contract not existing, and a contract existing and someone not caring about it. There are cases about things like this, and injunctions are brought for less.

All well and good in theory.

Give me an instance where a manufacturer took someone to court or toook out an injunction preventing them from splitting multipacks for the purposes of selling individual items.

I have never heard of such a case and as far as I'm concerned it's because the practice is restricted to small corner stores - large stores can't do it because there's no barcode in the individual items. Even my local Londis has a scanner so he can't do it, why would the likes of Tayto, Cadburys or Nestle give a XXXX about the tiny one man shop doing it?

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

Give me an instance where a manufacturer took someone to court or toook out an injunction preventing them from splitting multipacks for the purposes of selling individual items.

There was a European case where it was held that premium brands are allowed prevent a grey market where products are sold at a low price. So manufacturers can have some control on price. One presumes that this can only apply to their own product and not to generic products, as that would be anticompetitive.

coylemj

Victor wrote: »

There was a European case where it was held that premium brands are allowed prevent a grey market where products are sold at a low price. So manufacturers can have some control on price. One presumes that this can only apply to their own product and not to generic products, as that would be anticompetitive.

Certain classes of products have Ts & Cs attached to them all the way down to the retailer. For example, Levis and Louis Vuitton don't want their products for sale in a open air market or a discount store so the local distributor makes the retailers sign Ts & Cs in the same way that IBM and HP require resellers to get their customers to sign that they will not export their products to Iran or North Korea.

This means that if you are a retailer of 'premium' brands, you will have signed certain Ts & Cs placing restrictions on how and where you can sell the goods, something which you would not be required to do if buying Tayto multipacks in a Cash & Carry.

Victor, I think that case you're referring to involved Tesco shipping in Levis jeans from an eastern European country, the court found that the local distributor in (e.g.) Bulgaria was forbidden by the Ts &Cs he had signed from exporting the goods so he was in breach of the agreement and by extension so was Tesco.

clashburke

i know im draging the tread up again but a quick clarification.

If a pub buys 12pk of say heniken from a supermarket and sells them at a profit individually is he breaking any law??

main question is does the same thing as discussed aboved about newsagents/shops apply in a pub??

Departed

IPAM wrote: »

One of my local pubs sells cans of bulmers from multi packs! They cost €15 for 8 cans in the local supervalu and the pub sells them on for €4 a pop! :mad:

buyer is worse to give it to him

Shelflife

clashburke wrote: »

i know im draging the tread up again but a quick clarification.

If a pub buys 12pk of say heniken from a supermarket and sells them at a profit individually is he breaking any law??

main question is does the same thing as discussed aboved about newsagents/shops apply in a pub??

No he is not breaking any laws, the same thing applies to pubs as shops.