EU’s war on terror authorizes spying on cell phones.

Run_to_da_hills

This is why we should be vigilant about legislation and various directives that are proposed and passed in individual countries within the EU. There is the imminent danger that the same legislation will eventually become EU wide.

"The European Union’s new Data Retention Directive (DRD) authorizes greater violation of citizens’ privacy under the pretext of anti-terrorism efforts, Press TV reports.

Activists in Austria have launched a campaign to take a motion against the DRD to the country’s constitutional court.

“This is only the politics of fear, nothing more,” Patryc Kopacynki of the Pirate Parties International movement stressed, suggesting that only a “dumb” terrorist might be trapped by the new surveillance rules".

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/234455.html

nyarlothothep

In the UK they've passed or are trying again to pass that bill which will bring all texts, phone/skype calls, website visits, tweets, posts etc under surveillance. The problem is down to the authoritarian mentality. These are the same personality types that thought burning witches was a good idea back in the 18th century. Even though books have been written about them, eg animal farm and 1984, which have shown up the human authoritarian personality type exactly for what it is, these people never seem to learn, though I doubt books would be among their interests. The level of influence they enjoy is disproportionate to what minimal benefits (if any) they contribute to society.

Jonny7

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This is why we should be vigilant about legislation and various directives that are proposed and passed in individual countries within the EU. There is the imminent danger that the same legislation will eventually become EU wide.

"The European Union’s new Data Retention Directive (DRD) authorizes greater violation of citizens’ privacy under the pretext of anti-terrorism efforts, Press TV reports.

Activists in Austria have launched a campaign to take a motion against the DRD to the country’s constitutional court.

“This is only the politics of fear, nothing more,” Patryc Kopacynki of the Pirate Parties International movement stressed, suggesting that only a “dumb” terrorist might be trapped by the new surveillance rules".

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/234455.html

I'd avoid PressTV like the plague, its essentially Iranian state media, and the irony of it running a story about state intrusion is a little overwhelming.

The act you are talking about has been up and running for about 5 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive

There is a lot of criticism of the act, calls for it to be scrapped, etc.

Daithi 1

I like the Iranians. I would avoid taking your advice like the plague.

humanji

nyarlothothep wrote: »

In the UK they've passed or are trying again to pass that bill which will bring all texts, phone/skype calls, website visits, tweets, posts etc under surveillance. The problem is down to the authoritarian mentality. These are the same personality types that thought burning witches was a good idea back in the 18th century. Even though books have been written about them, eg animal farm and 1984, which have shown up the human authoritarian personality type exactly for what it is, these people never seem to learn, though I doubt books would be among their interests. The level of influence they enjoy is disproportionate to what minimal benefits (if any) they contribute to society.

That's been stopped at the moment. The UK government have been forced to rethink the entire bill.

And is this not 6 years old? That's the date given on the DRD (Directive 2006/24/EC). Also, is this not the directive that stopped Irish ISP's from holding personal information for several years? Can't remember the exact details, but it was something along the lines of the EU forcing Irish companies to destroy information a lot sooner than the companies wanted, for privacy reasons.

Anyone remember what I'm talking about?



edit, yeah, it's six years. I posted before fully reading Jonny7's link.

Jonny7

Daithi 1 wrote: »

I like the Iranians. I would avoid taking your advice like the plague.

No need for the juvenile comments Daithi

State intrusion is state intrusion, and in Iran, North Korea, Belarus, etc its far worse than anything we have here.

macshadow

Jonny7 wrote: »

No need for the juvenile comments Daithi

State intrusion is state intrusion, and in Iran, North Korea, Belarus, etc its far worse than anything we have here.

At least it's plain to see in those countries.

Jonny7

macshadow wrote: »

At least it's plain to see in those countries.

The only reason we know of its existence in N Korea is from defectors, spying, intelligence, human rights organisations, often taking great risks.

In Europe, its right there in Wikipedia and all over the internet - you can read all about it.

We live in a very free society here in Europe and in this post-Bush era something like the DRD is seen as too much of an intrusion, despite its use in only a small amount of criminal cases - I presume it will eventually be dropped.
http://www.edri.org/files/shadow_drd_report_110417.pdf

Socialist_Pig

macshadow wrote: »

At least it's plain to see in those countries.

only because those countries enforce censorship and state spying,you know you're living in a sh1t state.

They monitor traffic on phones and the web as a matter of routine where as here in the west your phone and internet activity is only looked at when your under criminal investigation or belong to subversive organisations that the state has an interest in i.e the ira,cira(in our own country )or extreme organisations like direct action anarchist groups etc..

enno99

Socialist_Pig wrote: »

only because those countries enforce censorship and state spying,you know you're living in a sh1t state.

They monitor traffic on phones and the web as a matter of routine where as here in the west your phone and internet activity is only looked at when your under criminal investigation or belong to subversive organisations that the state has an interest in i.e the ira,cira(in our own country )or extreme organisations like direct action anarchist groups etc..

How can you be so sure

In 2010, the average European had his/her traffic and location data logged in a telecommunications
database once every six minutes. According to official Danish statistics, every citizen is logged 225
times a day.55 With a blanket and indiscriminate telecommunications data retention regime in place,
sensitive information about social contacts (including business contacts), movements and the
private lives (e.g. contacts with physicians, lawyers, workers councils, psychologists, helplines,
etc.) of 500 million Europeans is collected in the absence of any suspicion.


According to link Jonny7 posted above

humanji

enno99 wrote: »

How can you be so sure

In 2010, the average European had his/her traffic and location data logged in a telecommunications
database once every six minutes. According to official Danish statistics, every citizen is logged 225
times a day.55 With a blanket and indiscriminate telecommunications data retention regime in place,
sensitive information about social contacts (including business contacts), movements and the
private lives (e.g. contacts with physicians, lawyers, workers councils, psychologists, helplines,
etc.) of 500 million Europeans is collected in the absence of any suspicion.


According to link Jonny7 posted above

Isn't that assuming that the information is taken specifically to spy on people, as opposed to information that's just collected.

enno99

humanji wrote: »

Isn't that assuming that the information is taken specifically to spy on people, as opposed to information that's just collected.

I would assume that the data is collected for commercial purposes billing etc
Its the retention of the data and how its used after that would be the problem

If your provider told you that when they were fininshed processing your data for billing etc
they were passing it on to a garda data base for their use would you be ok with that and sign up anyway?

It has been misused before


German telecommunications giant Deutsche Telekom illegally used telecommunications
traffic and location data to spy on about 60 individuals including critical journalists,
managers and union leaders in order to try to find leaks. The company used its own data
pool as well as that of a domestic competitor and of a foreign company.
• In Poland retained telecommunications traffic and subscriber data was used in 2005-2007 by
two major intelligence agencies to illegally disclose journalistic sources without any judicial
control.


Recent media reports have confirmed that an Irish Garda (Police) detective sergeant will not face criminal prosecution and will keep her job despite abusing the data retention system to spy on an ex-boyfriend

the sergeant has been transferred to the Garda Special Branch, an anti-terrorist division within the police force, where she will continue to have access to sensitive information.



http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number9.16/abuse-data-retention-ireland

SNAKEDOC

how is half of that so called collation of information even possible. if i make an appointment with a private psychologist how will that database get the information. i don't think that the information about been logged hundreds of times a day or even week is accurate but a guess based on a theoretical persons movements in a city on a day when they are on public streets visiting areas that are networked with cctv, using websites that are under surveillance, and generally been in areas of interest. for instance i live in the country with few if any cctv anywhere near any place i visit on a daily basis. maybe i was logged once while driving to work and using the toll bridge that would be it. and yes i know its another country but the same things apply its a physical impressibility that everyone takes as gospel and freaks out at the great evil of THE SYSTEM. in case anyone hasn't noticed there are a record number of conflicts on the brew terrorist acts and deranged people killing people all the time and when governments or policing agencies try to control the population to prevent these acts people go mad but when something horrible happens the reaction is the same do more to stop the violence. We as a people cannot have it both ways. there are wars and sacrifices will have to be made. frankly i don't care if my phone calls are listened to by police agencies, rather them than the local nutter with a police scanner which is easy by the way so think about it next time you make a call who is really listening

enno99

how is half of that so called collation of information even possible.

VasTech: "A high end system can comprise of more than 100,000 simultaneous voice channels, allowing it to capture up to one billion intercepts per day and storing in excess of 5,000 Terabytes of information."

Agnitio: "8s3 Strategic, designed for mass voice interception and voice mining..."

https://www.privacyinternational.org/blog/mass-surveillance-statistics

Its called technology and it might suprise you to know we are up there with the best for developing it

http://www.openet.com/company/board-members

http://daon.com/content/company-overview

Daon provides software and services to governments and organizations to assist them in managing the identities of their citizens, customers or employees.


if i make an appointment with a private psychologist how will that database get the information.



i don't think that the information about been logged hundreds of times a day or even week is accurate
but a guess based on a theoretical persons movements in a city on a day when they are on public streets visiting areas that are networked with cctv, using websites that are under surveillance, and generally been in areas of interest.

European Digital Rights
Rue Montoyer 39/3, B-1000 Brussels
E-Mail: brussels@edri.org, http://www.edri.org

Are quite happy with it and published in their document but if you have statistics that dispute them feel free to post them



for instance i live in the country with few if any cctv anywhere near any place i visit on a daily basis.

Not everyone has that luxury

maybe i was logged once while driving to work and using the toll bridge that would be it

So as it dont really effect you its ok to roll it out nationwide/worldwide everyone else will just have to put up with it

. and yes i know its another country but the same things apply its a physical impressibility that everyone takes as gospel and freaks out at the great evil of THE SYSTEM.

It did say the average european



In case anyone hasn't noticed there are a record number of conflicts on the brew terrorist acts and deranged people killing people all the time

Sadly you are 100% correct there but maybe staying out of peoples lives and countries might just solve some of that


and when governments or policing agencies try to control the population to prevent these acts people go mad

And rightly so they are there to protect and serve not to control

but when something horrible happens the reaction is the same do more to stop the violence. We as a people cannot have it both ways.

there are wars and sacrifices will have to be made.

Oh but they are sacrifices being made daily with the lives of innocent men women and children in Iraq/Afghanistan/Palestine/Libya/Syria .etc all who want no part in these wars for greed


frankly i don't care if my phone calls are listened to by police agencies,

you would be in a very small club there

rather them than the local nutter with a police scanner which is easy by the way so think about it next time you make a call who is really listening

well if you have a local nutter maybe you need more CCTV as for a police scanner accessing mobile digital networks Im not so sure but open to correction

TURRICAN

enno99 wrote: »

how is half of that so called collation of information even possible.

[COLOR="Red"]VasTech: "A high end system can comprise of more than 100,000 simultaneous voice channels, allowing it to capture up to one billion intercepts per day and storing in excess of 5,000 Terabytes of information."

Agnitio: "8s3 Strategic, designed for mass voice interception and voice mining..."[/COLOR]

https://www.privacyinternational.org/blog/mass-surveillance-statistics

[COLOR="Red"]Its called technology and it might suprise you to know we are up there with the best for developing it[/COLOR]

http://www.openet.com/company/board-members

http://daon.com/content/company-overview

Daon provides software and services to governments and organizations to assist them in managing the identities of their citizens, customers or employees.


if i make an appointment with a private psychologist how will that database get the information.



i don't think that the information about been logged hundreds of times a day or even week is accurate
but a guess based on a theoretical persons movements in a city on a day when they are on public streets visiting areas that are networked with cctv, using websites that are under surveillance, and generally been in areas of interest.

European Digital Rights
Rue Montoyer 39/3, B-1000 Brussels
E-Mail: brussels@edri.org, http://www.edri.org

[COLOR="Red"]Are quite happy with it and published in their document but if you have statistics that dispute them feel free to post them[/COLOR]



for instance i live in the country with few if any cctv anywhere near any place i visit on a daily basis.

[COLOR="Red"]Not everyone has that luxury[/COLOR]

maybe i was logged once while driving to work and using the toll bridge that would be it

[COLOR="Red"]So as it dont really effect you its ok to roll it out nationwide/worldwide everyone else will just have to put up with it [/COLOR]

. and yes i know its another country but the same things apply its a physical impressibility that everyone takes as gospel and freaks out at the great evil of THE SYSTEM.

[COLOR="Red"]It did say the average european[/COLOR]



In case anyone hasn't noticed there are a record number of conflicts on the brew terrorist acts and deranged people killing people all the time
[COLOR="Red"]
Sadly you are 100% correct there but maybe staying out of peoples lives and countries might just solve some of that[/COLOR]


and when governments or policing agencies try to control the population to prevent these acts people go mad

[COLOR="Red"]And rightly so they are there to protect and serve not to control[/COLOR]

but when something horrible happens the reaction is the same do more to stop the violence. We as a people cannot have it both ways.

there are wars and sacrifices will have to be made.

[COLOR="Red"]Oh but they are sacrifices being made daily with the lives of innocent men women and children in Iraq/Afghanistan/Palestine/Libya/Syria .etc all who want no part in these wars for greed[/COLOR]


frankly i don't care if my phone calls are listened to by police agencies,

[COLOR="Red"]you would be in a very small club there[/COLOR]

rather them than the local nutter with a police scanner which is easy by the way so think about it next time you make a call who is really listening

[COLOR="Red"]well if you have a local nutter maybe you need more CCTV as for a police scanner accessing mobile digital networks Im not so sure but open to correction[/COLOR]

Correct on the police scanner. They use tetra now which cannot be hacked....yet.