Tracking not done right?

I Heart Internet

Forgive the fairly basic question. I don't know a whole pile about cars and just want to get some info to sort this out.

I had to get a tyre replaced last weekend. Got it fitted in a reputable tyre centre. They tracked and balanced it.

So then I go on a long (2hr) drive as planned but the car is veering to the left the whole way (on motorways). Not a ridiculous amount but enough for me to have to hold my right hand on the wheel the whole way gently correcting for it going to the left.

It was travelling perfectly straight before I got the tyre replaced.

I'm going to bring it back to the shop and insist they do it again.

Is there any other reason/excuse they might try and give me as to why this is the case? Bear in mind it was travelling nice and straight before the tyre was changed.

Nissan doctor

You say you got 1 tyres replaced, is it the same brand and model as the one on the opposite side?

I Heart Internet

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You say you got 1 tyres replaced, is it the same brand and model as the one on the opposite side?

Thanks Doc. It's actually a Nissan too!

The busted tyre was front left. He said he'd put the new tyre back left and move the back left one up front so I had two of the same up front.

Nissan doctor

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Thanks Doc. It's actually a Nissan too!

The busted tyre was front left. He said he'd put the new tyre back left and move the back left one up front so I had two of the same up front.

Even on the rear, if you have 1 odd tyre it can cause the car to pull to one side. They could, or course, have tracked it incorrectly too, far from unheard of unfortunately.

What car is it?

I Heart Internet

Nissan Almera - hatchback 05

But even allowing for a different tyre, they should still be able to adjust it/compensate for it so that it travels in a straight line, no?

Nissan doctor

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Nissan Almera - hatchback 05

But even allowing for a different tyre, they should still be able to adjust it/compensate for it so that it travels in a straight line, no?

Tracking/wheel alignment is adjusting the hubs/wheels them selves so they are aligned to whatever angles required by the manufacturer.

Having odd tyres on the car creates different levels of resistance/drag etc so can cause a pull which is nothing to do with wheel alignment, in the same way that having low tyre pressure in one tyre can.

You could set the alignment to compensate for the pull, but then it would be out of factory spec, and you'd likely be wearing tyres unevenly.

trixyben

I think its always good pratice to replace tyres in pairs, especially on the front as you will more than likley experience pulling, vibrations, uneven tyre wear from replacing one...you also have piece of mind that you have ultimate grip on the road, thing to keep in mind is that the tyres are the only contact you have on the road so when replacing them I wouldnt be cutting corners tbh...

I Heart Internet

So given all that, should I bring the car back to check? Without screaming at him that they did it wrong ;-)

PaudyW

check tire pressure as well have noticed that some tyre places seem to put too much air in,

corktina

trixyben wrote: »

I think its always good pratice to replace tyres in pairs, especially on the front as you will more than likley experience pulling, vibrations, uneven tyre wear from replacing one...you also have piece of mind that you have ultimate grip on the road, thing to keep in mind is that the tyres are the only contact you have on the road so when replacing them I wouldnt be cutting corners tbh...

Noone replaces a perfectly good tyre just so that it matches the other side...surely!

trixyben

^^^^^+1

I Heart Internet

OSI wrote: »

By replacing the one tire and only rotating one rear, you now effectively have 4 mis-matched corners. Both the front and rear axles now have tires on either end which are going to be a different size and have different levels of grip. Would take a fair amount of tracking to sort out any pull there I reckon.

Sigh

I Heart Internet

So I'm gonna bring it back and tell him it's not right. It's a very uncomfortable drive.

Maybe get him to stick the one he moved back on the back wheel and put the new one in front (replacing the one that actually had to be replaced).

So from what I understand, it's not really his fault and he did his best??

mickdw

Why not put the second back tyre onto the front - assuming they are both in good condition.
The front should then be sorted, Any difference across the back axle will be significantly less noticeable. The one new tyre on the front is guaranteed to cause a pull as even if the other one is the same make & size, it will have worn into the car and will be significantly different to the new one. In fact, your problem might well go away if you let the new one wear in.

Edit: sorry, read your post properly and you do not have a new tyre currently on the front. IN that case, I would check condition of both fronts to check for uneven wear etc. You could also swap the new one to the other side at the rear to see if it makes a difference. If not, get the alignment checked again.

Ardennes1944

my car and my last car always veer off to the left a bit after tracking. ive just learned to live with keeping my hand on the wheel.

Nissan doctor

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So I'm gonna bring it back and tell him it's not right. It's a very uncomfortable drive.

Maybe get him to stick the one he moved back on the back wheel and put the new one in front (replacing the one that actually had to be replaced).

So from what I understand, it's not really his fault and he did his best??

Just go back and ask them to recheck the alignment. Ask them to show you the display and explain it, anyone doing the job properly will have no issue with this.

If this is all ok, then try changing the tyre to the other side and see if there is a difference.

What brand is the new tyre and what are the other 3?

I Heart Internet

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I Heart Internet wrote: »

So I'm gonna bring it back and tell him it's not right. It's a very uncomfortable drive.

Maybe get him to stick the one he moved back on the back wheel and put the new one in front (replacing the one that actually had to be replaced).

So from what I understand, it's not really his fault and he did his best??

Just go back and ask them to recheck the alignment. Ask them to show you the display and explain it, anyone doing the job properly will have no issue with this.

If this is all ok, then try changing the tyre to the other side and see if there is a difference.

What brand is the new tyre and what are the other 3?

Thanks. I don't know the brand. I think both pairs (back and front) were replaced as pairs. They would have been your 80-85 euro "bargains".

Nissan doctor

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Thanks. I don't know the brand. I think both pairs (back and front) were replaced as pairs. They would have been your 80-85 euro "bargains".

In that case you are guaranteed to have extreme mismatches is performance.

I Heart Internet

Thanks for all the help there.

I've just thought it thru again there.

I'm gonna get him to check the alignment again. But also get him to change the new one from the rear to the front. If we're talking about the best possible matches on both axels then that should do it.

It will mean I have two identical and equally worn tyres on the back along with a pair on the front that, while maybe not identical, are closer in age. The front one not being replaced is only 6 months old.

Thinking about it, them putting the new one on the back, was probably the worst of all possible configurations!

Nissan doctor

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Thanks for all the help there.

I've just thought it thru again there.

I'm gonna get him to check the alignment again. But also get him to change the new one from the rear to the front. If we're talking about the best possible matches on both axels then that should do it.

It will mean have two identical and equally worn tyres on the back along with a pair on the front that, while maybe not identical are closer in age. The front one not being replaced is only 6 months old.

Thinking about it, putting the new one on the back, was probably the worst of all possible configurations!

Hmmm, if it is the tyre causing the issue, then putting it on the front could makes things much worse as it will then be attached directly to the steering axle. Not to mention having a difference in grip when accelerating, steering and braking.

Its nothing to do with the age or wear on the tyres, its the different thread designs, compounds, grip levels etc that cause the problem.

Jonny303

Suprise nobody has asked this yet. How much did you pay?

The amount of customer I have who believe that when you buy a tyre you get it "tracked" and balanced is very high.

In general you will pay anywhere from €30-€90 for tracking/alignment on top of a tyre.

Are you sure you actually paid to have tracking done, and if so how did they do it?

Did they track it on the floor with gauges, just adjusting the toe or did they do a full alignment. If you hit a kerb, you may well have bent a strut and even though the toe (the most basic of alignment adjustments) is in spec, the other angles may be off.

I Heart Internet

Jonny303 wrote: »

Suprise nobody has asked this yet. How much did you pay?

The amount of customer I have who believe that when you buy a tyre you get it "tracked" and balanced is very high.

In general you will pay anywhere from €30-€90 for tracking/alignment on top of a tyre.

Are you sure you actually paid to have tracking done, and if so how did they do it?

Did they track it on the floor with gauges, just adjusting the toe or did they do a full alignment. If you hit a kerb, you may well have bent a strut and even though the toe (the most basic of alignment adjustments) is in spec, the other angles may be off.

Thanks Jonny.

I paid 85 for the tyre and 25 for the tracking which was done while the car was elevated. It was a large, reputable, well know tyre place.

I don't know precisely how they did the tracking/alignment - wasn't up close when they did it.

I would expect, if something was damaged on the wheel (a strut) that they would have pointed this out to me there and then - so that I wouldn't go away thinking it was their fault.

Nissan doctor

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Thanks Jonny.

I paid 85 for the tyre and 25 for the tracking which was done while the car was elevated. It was a large, reputable, well know tyre place.

I don't know precisely how they did the tracking/alignment - wasn't up close when they did it.

I would expect, if something was damaged on the wheel (a strut) that they would have pointed this out to me there and then - so that I wouldn't go away thinking it was their fault.

Something can easily be bent out of spec but not visible to the naked eye.

If you hit something then having cheap €25 front wheel tracking done is pointless IMO. You need to have proper computer alignment done which will show if anything is off, i.e camber, castor etc.

If either of these are off on one wheel then the car will not go straight. There is no adjustment for these angles on your car so if they are off, then something is bent.

dr.fuzzenstein

OSI wrote: »

By replacing the one tire and only rotating one rear, you now effectively have 4 mis-matched corners. Both the front and rear axles now have tires on either end which are going to be a different size and have different levels of grip. Would take a fair amount of tracking to sort out any pull there I reckon.

Standard Irish practice I believe.
And if all 4 tires are replaced at the same time, they're usually hard plastic ditchfinders.

Nissan doctor

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Standard Irish practice I believe.
And if all 4 tires are replaced at the same time, they're usually hard plastic ditchfinders.

Sure the only point of having rubbery things around your wheels is to pass the NCT isn't it?
:P

I Heart Internet

I brought the car back at lunchtime.

Dealing with a totally different guy today and explained the issue.

He put it in teh air and went about it again. I know he checked the air pressure as well as the alignment.

He came back after 10-15 minutes and confirmed it wasn't tracked properly - he quoted me 4 single digit figures - something like -6, +4, 2 and 2.

He left the tyres where they were and said that there was nothing mechanically or structurally wrong with it (that he could see).

So I've tried it now and it does seem better but not completely spot on.

The drive home should be a better test.