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New Tomb Raider: a bit disturbing?

  • 03-04-2012 7:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    Mods, I'll understand if you move this to Games, but I think Lara Croft is an iconic character known beyond the games she appears in, and this video touches on big issues.

    Below is gameplay footage from the upcoming Tomb Raider game, a prequel to the previous games:



    Now is it just me or is that a bit disturbing?

    It seems to fetishise her suffering and distress. It begins with her tied up, and continues on to become what seems like an endless cycle of her screaming in fear, moaning and gasping while she's injured, covered in dirt, and struggles to get away from the scary men coming after her.
    It reminds me of a particularly controversial Pirelli calendar from a few years back (can't find a link) which featured its models in distress and physical pain.

    I was discussing this with a friend yesterday and he argued that it all made sense in context, and was no different from male game character Nathan Drake from the Uncharted series of games, who, he claimed, grunts and screams in equal measure. Here's a sample video of him for comparison:



    To me, they're not really comparable: he's a lot less vocal and doesn't grunt as frequently as Lara does.

    I don't think it can be argued that Lara Croft was always like that either.
    Sure, there was always an element of male fantasy about her, but at least there was a simplistic "grrrl power" side to her too, and she was portrayed as tough and intelligent.

    Am I alone in finding the video really creepy, or is this is just following the Hollywood example of having more vulnerable action heroes?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,518 ✭✭✭✭ Poor Uncle Tom


    She had it too good for far too long.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,823 ✭✭✭✭ smash


    She got a boob reduction :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,884 ✭✭✭✭ My name is URL


    It seems to fetishise her suffering and distress. It begins with her tied up, and continues on to become what seems like an endless cycle of her screaming in fear, moaning and gasping while she's injured, covered in dirt, and struggles to get away from the scary men coming after her.

    Honestly, I'd say you're over thinking it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 RDM_83 again


    AfterHours answer: Needs more tentacles!

    Slightly Serious Answer: TombRaider was always sh"te and this is a just a new low which does seem a bit creepy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭ 44leto


    What can I say sex sells, but so does violence.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭ Temptamperu


    Yeah its not a real woman Moo, its just polygons shaped like a woman. If this is all you have to complain about i would say your life is pretty sweet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,775 ✭✭✭✭ kfallon


    Wouldn't mind being her womb raider phnarr phnarr :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    Honestly, I'd say you're over thinking it.

    That's what I think sometimes too, but my gut reaction was that it was a bit over the top.

    I'm also playing one of the older games at the moment and while she's obviously a sex object in it, it doesn't seem to put her through the wringer so much. While having her scream and moan like a pornstar!
    originally posted by Temptamperu
    Yeah its not a real woman Moo, its just polygons shaped like a woman. If this is all you have to complain about i would say your life is pretty sweet.

    But it's a representation of a real woman, which is surely the most important thing.

    I wouldn't say I find it a horrible offence, just that to me, it seems to perpetuate the stereotype of gamers as immature manchildren.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭ FatherLen


    i think you are trying to find something that isn't there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭ Nodin


    smash wrote: »
    She got a boob reduction :(


    ....couldn't be easy, dragging yerself over ledges with them things the way they used to be.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    FatherLen wrote: »
    i think you are trying to find something that isn't there.

    No, just giving my first impression of the video, and soliciting opinions on it.

    I would never dare to suggest what the intentions of the game's developers might be, just saying that to me it seems a bit creepy, especially when compared to previous characterisations of the character (where admittedly, she's older and wiser).

    I'm not saying the game is definitely sexist or creepy, but it could easily come across in such a way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭ Nodin


    That's what I think sometimes too, but my gut reaction was that it was a bit over the top.

    I'm also playing one of the older games at the moment and while she's obviously a sex object in it, it doesn't seem to put her through the wringer so much. While having her scream and moan like a pornstar!



    But it's a representation of a real woman, which is surely the most important thing.

    I wouldn't say I find it a horrible offence, just that to me, it seems to perpetuate the stereotype of gamers as immature manchildren.

    The player is playing with her as their character. They aren't the ones tying her up, etc and so on. Therefore, I fail to see the problem. Ok it might give somebody the idea they'd like to dress up as a woman and be tied up, but thats their business, really, and none of ours.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,823 ✭✭✭✭ smash


    Nodin wrote: »
    smash wrote: »
    She got a boob reduction :(


    ....couldn't be easy, dragging yerself over ledges with them things the way they used to be.
    I honestly couldn't care less about the dynamics of ledge dragging :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,064 ✭✭✭✭ Kirby


    It's a reboot that is trying to de-camp the series. The setting, goals, and the physique of Lara herself points to that fact. Is there anything wrong with trying to a bit darker or grittier? There are plenty of books and movies that tell the tale of somebody suffering or being hurt. Where is your outrage over that?

    Gaming may be in its infancy but there is nothing wrong with trying to be a bit more adult. The fact that she is less of a caricature and actually struggles with some of this tomb raiding stuff is surely a good thing.

    So please just.....stop. Don't be one of those "please think of the children" biddy's. If it's not for you, don't buy it. But there is no issue here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,884 ✭✭✭✭ My name is URL


    That's what I think sometimes too, but my gut reaction was that it was a bit over the top.

    I'm also playing one of the older games at the moment and while she's obviously a sex object in it, it doesn't seem to put her through the wringer so much. While having her scream and moan like a pornstar!

    There may be some element of sexualisation in it, but I'd say it's more about character dynamics and providing an added depth of realism and emergence for the gamer than anything else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,174 ✭✭✭✭ IvySlayer


    Locking the butler in the fridge in Tomb Raider is something every gamer has to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    Kirby wrote: »
    It's a reboot that is trying to de-camp the series. The setting, goals, and the physique of Lara herself points to that fact. Is there anything wrong with trying to a bit darker or grittier? There are plenty of books and movies that tell the tale of somebody suffering or being hurt. Where is your outrage over that?

    Gaming may be in its infancy but there is nothing wrong with trying to be a bit more adult. The fact that she is less of a caricature and actually struggles with some of this tomb raiding stuff is surely a good thing.

    So please just.....stop. Don't be one of those "please think of the children" biddy's. If it's not for you, don't buy it. But there is no issue here.

    I've never been called a biddy before :).

    I've no problem with a gritty reboot and making a character more vulnerable at all; I just felt that in this video her suffering seemed a bit over the top.
    I've no moral objection to the game, and never stated as such. I just think it seems to play up to lots of stereotypes of games and gamers, and I expect an alarmist Daily Mail article on it when it's released.

    I guess I'm swimming against the tide on this one though.

    *shuffles off to play Super Mario Bros. 3*


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭ Temptamperu


    I have actually played the opening section of the game, If anything they have made Lara Croft a real woman not some crazy double F tittyed, 0 waste overtly sexualized woman. And sure she moans, but there's probably more moaning on a tennis court to be fair (and there's undies on the court too)

    But your right in a sense they are marketing it to younger males, like every god damn movie of the last five years. Target teens with disposable income.

    For me though the worst part of this game is that its a quick time event laden action game. So I wont be buying it. But obviously the market research the company did paid of because now we are all talking about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,583 mconigol


    OP it's just your filthy mind.

    Don't see anything wrong or sexual about this at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭ jc84


    this looks amazing, can't wait


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    I'm not sure if I'm a prude or a pervert now. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭ Chuck Stone


    Young men fumbling with buttons in control of a tied up woman?

    What mischief could possibly come of this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭ Temptamperu


    I'm not sure if I'm a prude or a pervert now. :(

    You are a PRUVERT!!! :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    You are a PRUVERT!!! :pac:

    The best ones always are :pac:.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    Instead of Games, how about Cool vids? (unless they move it on)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭ MagicSean


    Plenty of games that have male protagonists in the same state. Batman, Max Payne, Modern Warfare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    biko wrote: »
    Instead of Games, how about Cool vids? (unless they move it on)

    Fine by me.
    MagicSean wrote: »
    Plenty of games that have male protagonists in the same state. Batman, Max Payne, Modern Warfare.

    True-ish, but I don't think they go through quite the same level of distress as in the video, though I suppose it's only from one part of the game.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭ MagicSean


    Fine by me.



    True-ish, but I don't think they go through quite the same level of distress as in the video, though I suppose it's only from one part of the game.

    i seem to recall in one of the Modern Warfares I was dragged into a stadium and shot in the face. Later i was caught in a nuclear explosion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭ Sinfonia


    I get what you're saying, but surely the idea is that her strength as a heroine is that much stronger (or even somewhat caused by) the suffering she has gone through, in the same way as Lisbeth Salander (the girl with the dragon tattoo, who played with fire and kicked the hornets' nest).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭ The King of Moo


    MagicSean wrote: »
    i seem to recall in one of the Modern Warfares I was dragged into a stadium and shot in the face. Later i was caught in a nuclear explosion.

    But does your character moan in a possibly sexual manner? :pac:
    Sinfonia wrote: »
    I get what you're saying, but surely the idea is that her strength as a heroine is that much stronger (or even somewhat caused by) the suffering she has gone through, in the same way as Lisbeth Salander (the girl with the dragon tattoo, who played with fire and kicked the hornets' nest).

    I'm sure that's what they're going for, and the video might not be representative of the game as a whole, with her growing and learning as you go along.

    I think though if it's showing how she became so strong, the game might focus on her suffering: it'd be a bit like the first Millennium novel focussing entirely on
    Lisbeth's horrible childhood and rape.
    Not saying that the video's the equivalent of Lara being raped, I hasten to add!


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