Backdating VAT reclaim possible?

manuelkuhs

I'm planning to register as self-employed but have started feasibility and setting up some stuff for my work already, which involved/will involve some purchases. Is it possible to claim back VAT on items (e.g. laptop) purchased a few weeks before being VAT registered?

Have searched around revenue.ie etc and haven't found a definitive answer.

dbran

Hi

No you cannot reclaim the vat back on invoices which are dated before you became vat registered.

dbran

manuelkuhs

Thanks for the answer!

Also, can I claim for things purchased AFTER registering as self-employed but BEFORE registering for VAT?

dbran

For income tax yes.

For VAt no.

manuelkuhs

dbran wrote: »

For income tax yes.

For VAt no.

Thanks again!

Form TR1, under the VAT registration section, states:

"State the date from which you require to register"

Does this mean I can register for VAT retro-actively? And could I then this way claim retro-actively (though technically it wouldn't be retro-actively because I would then count as VAT registered at this stage)?

dbran

yes

manuelkuhs

dbran wrote: »

yes

Brilliant, thanks!!

smeharg

manuelkuhs wrote: »

Thanks again!

Form TR1, under the VAT registration section, states:

"State the date from which you require to register"

Does this mean I can register for VAT retro-actively? And could I then this way claim retro-actively (though technically it wouldn't be retro-actively because I would then count as VAT registered at this stage)?

Maybe.

You either register because you are obliged to, ie your turnover is likely to exceed the threshold in the next 12 months, OR you elect to register, ie you won't exceed the threshold but you want to register regardless.

You cannot backdate an election to register. You can backdate where you are obliged to register, subject to Revenue approval.

manuelkuhs

smeharg wrote: »

Maybe.

You either register because you are obliged to, ie your turnover is likely to exceed the threshold in the next 12 months, OR you elect to register, ie you won't exceed the threshold but you want to register regardless.

You cannot backdate an election to register. You can backdate where you are obliged to register, subject to Revenue approval.

Ah! That's an important clarification, thank you.

nompere

Registration will be effective from the first day of the VAT period in which you apply to register. So registering today will actually mean that you will be registered from 1 March 2012 - the current VAT period is March and April 2012.

So there is an element of back-dating.

Bobby1984

nompere wrote: »

Registration will be effective from the first day of the VAT period in which you apply to register. So registering today will actually mean that you will be registered from 1 March 2012 - the current VAT period is March and April 2012.

So there is an element of back-dating.

Where does it say that registration will be effective from first day of vat period. If this is the case and you return vat annually but register on 30 December 2011, does it mean you can claim vat for the whole year. From my understanding, I don't think so.

However, a vat credit can be claimed for stock which is held or purchased on or after the 1st day of the month prior to registering. Therefore you cannot claim vat on the laptop or any other capital items which you have purchased already.

What smeharg says is correct, there is no back dating an election for vat. You are registered from the date that the Revenue state in the letter confirming registration. Vat cannot be claimed on invoices prior to this date.

Wereghost

OP, on the off-chance that you purchased stock for resale, the VAT can normally be reclaimed even if incurred prior to registration date. This is an exception to the general rule that you can't reclaim VAT relating to before the reg date. Strange world.

smeharg

Bobby1984 wrote: »

Where does it say that registration will be effective from first day of vat period. If this is the case and you return vat annually but register on 30 December 2011, does it mean you can claim vat for the whole year. From my understanding, I don't think so.

However, a vat credit can be claimed for stock which is held or purchased on or after the 1st day of the month prior to registering. Therefore you cannot claim vat on the laptop or any other capital items which you have purchased already.

What smeharg says is correct, there is no back dating an election for vat. You are registered from the date that the Revenue state in the letter confirming registration. Vat cannot be claimed on invoices prior to this date.

Nompere is correct.

The default position is that you become registered from the VAT period following that in which you register. So, if you register now you'll become registered as and from the beginning of the May/June VAT period. However, you can backdate the registration to the beginning of the current VAT period. This applies to both obligatory and elective registrations.

It should be noted that technically this is at the disrcretion of the Revenue of Taxes (but I've never had any problems with it).

An annual VAT return doesn't change the VAT periods, it is merely a change in frequency of returns.

Mr. Incognito

Bobby1984 wrote: »

Where does it say that registration will be effective from first day of vat period. If this is the case and you return vat annually but register on 30 December 2011, does it mean you can claim vat for the whole year. From my understanding, I don't think so.

However, a vat credit can be claimed for stock which is held or purchased on or after the 1st day of the month prior to registering. Therefore you cannot claim vat on the laptop or any other capital items which you have purchased already.

What smeharg says is correct, there is no back dating an election for vat. You are registered from the date that the Revenue state in the letter confirming registration. Vat cannot be claimed on invoices prior to this date.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0031/sec0002.html#sec2



“taxable period” means a period of 2 months beginning on 1 January, 1 March, 1 May, 1 July, 1 September or 1 November;

There is NO revenue concesion here.

The legislation is quite clear- you are VAT registered from the start of the VAT period you register in.

You cannot go back further than that. If you have expenses in Feb and register in March. Tough on the feb expenses.

jetta

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Bobby1984 wrote: »

Where does it say that registration will be effective from first day of vat period. If this is the case and you return vat annually but register on 30 December 2011, does it mean you can claim vat for the whole year. From my understanding, I don't think so.

However, a vat credit can be claimed for stock which is held or purchased on or after the 1st day of the month prior to registering. Therefore you cannot claim vat on the laptop or any other capital items which you have purchased already.

What smeharg says is correct, there is no back dating an election for vat. You are registered from the date that the Revenue state in the letter confirming registration. Vat cannot be claimed on invoices prior to this date.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0031/sec0002.html#sec2



“taxable period” means a period of 2 months beginning on 1 January, 1 March, 1 May, 1 July, 1 September or 1 November;

There is NO revenue concesion here.

The legislation is quite clear- you are VAT registered from the start of the VAT period you register in.

You cannot go back further than that. If you have expenses in Feb and register in March. Tough on the feb expenses.

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=119903&pageIndex=0&doclang=en&mode=doc&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=125136

i think you can based on this ecj case a
nd theres been previous case law to back it up too.

once you can demonstrate that the expense was used by the business in making taxable supplies then strong arguments to irish revenue can be made.

Alan Shore

Well check out p74 of accountancy ireland April refers to Kopalnia Odkrywkowa Polski case may apply in Ireland.

Would have agreed with the previous posters before I read the last post.