Management Fee's

solarplexus

I live in a block of apartments and annually, I'm required to pay management fee's. I travel alot and kinda let the payment slip. So this is the sequence of events;
collection company:
1) I ignored the reminder notices to pay the maintenance fees. I always
intended paying it but just put it on the long finger
2) I paid the bill on the same day I received the letter from the debt
collection agency
3) I notified the collection agency by email that I had paid the Management
Company
4) They replied and said they'd put my file on hold
5) They came back a week later looking for 350 euro. They say this is the
penalty / fees on the debt incurred - the original bill was for 1000
6) They've warned me not to ignore the letter
What should I do? Not pay it? Come to a deal for a lower figure? Surely a
breakdown of what that figure represents should be made available by them.

Can anyone tell me how to proceed now? Did the Management company effectively sell the debt to collectors?

kirving

solarplexus wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how to proceed now? Did the Management company effectively sell the debt to collectors?

This is the legal discussion so I know I'll get abuse for this, but tell the debt collectors where to go. You owe management fees to the management company, you never signed a contract with the debt collection agency. That, or reply saying you sold your debt to Greece.

Seriously though, wait for a more informed answer.

Avatargh

Kevin Irving wrote: »

This is the legal discussion so I know I'll get abuse for this, but tell the debt collectors where to go. You owe management fees to the management company, you never signed a contract with the debt collection agency. That, or reply saying you sold your debt to Greece.

Seriously though, wait for a more informed answer.

Yeah...I'd watch that...

Normally, this would be right...I.e. if you owe me money and I choose to hire a collector, his fees are my business.

That said, if I loan you money and we both agree that if you don't pay, you will pay the cost of collectors, then you're in trouble.

Your title documents (which may deal with management fees) may have something to say about this and may say you are liable for fees incurred in collection. There are similar terms in most mortgages etc which people don't see / are aware of. You should look that up first.

Paulw

You should check your contracts. Normally the Lease Contract, which you signed upon purchase of the unit, has clauses about outstanding fees and charges for debt recovery.

Talk to your management company/management agent and see what they say.

godtabh

Our management company charges an interest rate based on the prevailing ECB rate.

They also pass on the cost of engaging in debt collectors. they fees add up quickly.

We do however waiver the penalties in some cases were there is engagement with the debtor and the management company.

Casey Kennedy Properties

I have another classic... This week I was told that a landlord was liable for a fine of €150 because the tenant had put a door mat outside her front door. The tenant put it there so the kids could wipe their feet before entering the apartment which I think is perfectly reasonable. Now I am faced with telling the landlord and the tenant is a lovely single mom who I am also not looking forward to telling her about this either.

The forced conclusion or resolution of any dispute like this will only really come to a fore if the owner wants to sell and then the management company can delay and even scupper the sale of a property as they are involved and required to ok any sale.

Thoie

Well, it depends on the whys and wherefores of the mat.

If someone saw the mat and went Bam! €150 fine, that would be a bit unreasonable. If the tenant/landlord had already been made aware that the mat was not appropriate, and ignored it, then that's a different matter.

In my building we were made get rid of plants that people had put in the communal area, as the local fire officer said they were a hazard. It's possible that a mat in the common areas could be considered a hazard if there was a fire. We weren't fined for the pot plants - we got a note saying that if they weren't gone within a few hours, they'd be binned. People gave them homes.

PBS32

Hi Guys

Need some advice,

I have an apt where the Management fees were fairly high at €1700 p/y which was collected even though the estate had not been looked after. We fell behind in with the payments as i felt it unfair that we should be paying the full amount even though the block and surrounding areas werent been maintained. Long story short i backed down after 18 months and numerous letters and agreed to pay it in instalments of €150 p/m and continue to do this but there is still outstanding balance of 3k+.

There was a leak in the apt at the weekend from what looks like a burst pipe with water coming up through the floor (small amounts) and from the tiles in the bathroom and it looks a big and expensive job to cover it, im wondering though does the management fee not cover this through the buildings insurance policy and would the fact that im in arrears stop that cover?

Tom Young

No advice available here.

godtabh

PBS32 wrote: »

Hi Guys

Need some advice,

I have an apt where the Management fees were fairly high at €1700 p/y which was collected even though the estate had not been looked after. We fell behind in with the payments as i felt it unfair that we should be paying the full amount even though the block and surrounding areas werent been maintained. Long story short i backed down after 18 months and numerous letters and agreed to pay it in instalments of €150 p/m and continue to do this but there is still outstanding balance of 3k+.

There was a leak in the apt at the weekend from what looks like a burst pipe with water coming up through the floor (small amounts) and from the tiles in the bathroom and it looks a big and expensive job to cover it, im wondering though does the management fee not cover this through the buildings insurance policy and would the fact that im in arrears stop that cover?

If they do be aware that the excess could be thousands and you would have to pay it.

Paulw

Even at that, the claim cheque would be made out to the management company, and they can take the outstanding fees out of that before giving you the remaining sum.

seb65

If it is covered by the management company, the management company should go through their own insurance. Not sure if you would ever see a cheque as it will cover the cost of repair and could be given by the insurance company to the management company to pay for the repairs. You might not have to pay anything upfront yourself.

Lantus

solarplexus wrote: »

I live in a block of apartments and annually, I'm required to pay management fee's. I travel alot and kinda let the payment slip. So this is the sequence of events;
collection company:
1) I ignored the reminder notices to pay the maintenance fees. I always
intended paying it but just put it on the long finger
2) I paid the bill on the same day I received the letter from the debt
collection agency
3) I notified the collection agency by email that I had paid the Management
Company
4) They replied and said they'd put my file on hold
5) They came back a week later looking for 350 euro. They say this is the
penalty / fees on the debt incurred - the original bill was for 1000
6) They've warned me not to ignore the letter
What should I do? Not pay it? Come to a deal for a lower figure? Surely a
breakdown of what that figure represents should be made available by them.

Can anyone tell me how to proceed now? Did the Management company effectively sell the debt to collectors?

Ok, with any fee's you should of been advised of the fee prior to it being paid. i.e. if you dont pay then there will be an additional fee of x amount. If the bill said x and you paid x and then were asked for y later on then I'd challenge it. However, if the bill said it was x plus y and you just paid x then generally under the terms of the lease any additional charges or interest can be legally added to the bill if such an expense is incurred by the company and you are liable to pay it.

PBS32 wrote: »

Hi Guys

Need some advice,

I have an apt where the Management fees were fairly high at €1700 p/y which was collected even though the estate had not been looked after. We fell behind in with the payments as i felt it unfair that we should be paying the full amount even though the block and surrounding areas werent been maintained. Long story short i backed down after 18 months and numerous letters and agreed to pay it in instalments of €150 p/m and continue to do this but there is still outstanding balance of 3k+.

There was a leak in the apt at the weekend from what looks like a burst pipe with water coming up through the floor (small amounts) and from the tiles in the bathroom and it looks a big and expensive job to cover it, im wondering though does the management fee not cover this through the buildings insurance policy and would the fact that im in arrears stop that cover?

Well firstly you haven't paid your fee. The OMC would be well within its rights to not process any request by yourself for any damage in relation to this claim until all outstanding arrears have been paid in full. Insurance cover varies and in cases like this may only cover the origonal condition of the apartment, so if the tiles and fittings were there from day one then thats covered. Carpets, hi fi, tvs and so on added by tenants are typically not covered.

So the short answer is yes the fee does cover this but as per the lease document all services are conditional upon payment of the service fee.

seb65

Lantus wrote: »

Well firstly you haven't paid your fee. The OMC would be well within its rights to not process any request by yourself for any damage in relation to this claim until all outstanding arrears have been paid in full. Insurance cover varies and in cases like this may only cover the origonal condition of the apartment, so if the tiles and fittings were there from day one then thats covered. Carpets, hi fi, tvs and so on added by tenants are typically not covered.

So the short answer is yes the fee does cover this but as per the lease document all services are conditional upon payment of the service fee.

What does an insurance claim have to do with the payment of management fees? Besides, the OP has worked out a deal with them.

If there is a burst pipe that is not part of the owner's property, but part of the common area is the the management company not responsible for it? If it is leaking, the management company has to inform their insurance asap to mitigate damages. Burst pipes and leaks lead to mold damage. The management company needs to get it fixed, quickly. As for OP's apartment, doesn't appear to be anything more than a few tiles? Also, will that not fall under his own insurance?

Lantus

seb65 wrote: »

What does an insurance claim have to do with the payment of management fees? Besides, the OP has worked out a deal with them.

If there is a burst pipe that is not part of the owner's property, but part of the common area is the the management company not responsible for it? If it is leaking, the management company has to inform their insurance asap to mitigate damages. Burst pipes and leaks lead to mold damage. The management company needs to get it fixed, quickly. As for OP's apartment, doesn't appear to be anything more than a few tiles? Also, will that not fall under his own insurance?

Block Insurance is a service like anything else provided by the management company but it is conditional like all services on the payment of service fee's. The OMC may be happy to proceed with the OP's payment plan in place, or they may not.

With a burst pipe there 'may' be damage to the common areas but likley there will not be. As I clearly stated the extent of cover will very from policy to policy so its not possible to say what would be covered. Items like tiles 'may' be considered consequential loss as part of the origonal build but not part of the common areas and so could be covered under the block insurance policy. Obviously any excess given there typical high levels would be set against any such claim. Plasterboard walls, insulation, fire boards etc would normally be part of the origonal build and so would be covered but again the excess may make any claim non viable. Its subject to the extent of the leak and the cover terms, hence the generality.

Pipes internal to a unit are typically the unit owners responsibility to maintain and repair. Pipes that are part of the common areas that run in voids or areas outside the demised propert would be the OMC's responsibility. Some policy's by OMC's can vary in this regard as to the level od assistance they provide. It's not possible to say that they will do x or y as policies vary between developments.

Engage with the OMC and talk to them.

Each owner would typically need to make claims under their own contents insurance. Again, subject to the extent of the leak and damage caused.