3 Race hill climb series

ryan_sherlock

In Leinster, there are both not enough TTs and Hill Climb TTs (Northern Ireland seems to have a great tradition of TTs).

For the hill climb nationals, for it to be a national championship there has to be 3 or more open hill climb races - I think this is already done anyway but it did get me thinking. Each year when I go to the US in November, they have a series (8 races, 8 weeks) of hill climbs in the Bay Area called the Low Key Hill Climb Series (http://lowkey.djconnel.com/2012/) - lots of folks race it (75% non racers) - great events all round.

For 2012, I was thinking we need a series in Dublin (why Dublin, well, because I live there and there is a HUGE amount of riders close by).

These would be a few of my ideas:
- 3 events on 3 climbs, Tuesday evenings (try to not schedule against any big club leagues), every second week.

- climbs could be (there are LOADS of options, just throwing some out that work well logistically)
Cruagh bridge to Pine Forest (http://app.strava.com/segments/631152) (8-20min)
Kilmashogue Lane (easy to do, a test for Nationals) (http://app.strava.com/segments/734760) (7-20min)
Stocking Lane to the very top (as maybe a mass start?) - 8km or so... (longer than this http://app.strava.com/segments/693111) (20-40min)

CI rules etc... I'm sure I can figure out something for day licenses so that anyone (not with CI can do the events) - this is what I would really like to see - racers already race, I would love to have lots of Sportif riders who will never race give this a go - it is something different and can set themselves benchmarks to train towards.

€10 entry - some prizes (top 3 each day, top 5 overall and some 'most improved' / 'endurance' awards - the 'endurance' one can be the person who did all three but spent the most time doing it!, maybe a lightest/heaviest bike spot prize - don't worry, my Venge is 7kg+, heaviest/lightest combined weight prize at the end? you get the idea...)

Possibly some sort of social/pub reception after the last one. All climbs should be based pretty close to each other, same parking etc... each week (for those who need to drive)

I've seen how the Low Key races I mentioned above are run, use similar methods.


Nothing is setup etc... I'm just posting to get input, spark ideas etc... get buyin...

Beasty

It would be useful to get morana's input with his CI hat on, as it may be that normal CI "racing" rules do not apply to TTs (regarding licences/5 club rule etc). We've put them on ourselves (considered informal training, which probably allows the insurance cover to apply for those with licences), but if it's a CI event we would presumably need a CI registered club to "sponsor" it.

C3PO

Great idea Ryan! Be good to get some of the MTB gang out for a bit of "friendly" rivalry!

Do you remember the guy in the Nationals last year on Kilmashogue with the commuter bike, complete with back carrier? He was flying and far from last I think ..... and then when he was finished he went down to the bottom and did it again! Made me realise how crap I really am!

ryan_sherlock

Getting a club involved is not an issue (can use my club).

How does the idea of running one of them alongside one of the club leagues? I remember the club league HC TT up Bohernabreena last year. Really well run - could one of the rounds be tagged on? (Not to step on the running clubs toes)

joker77

This is a great idea, I'd say there would be a huge appetite for it - there's enough people here from all the clubs around the area for the word to spread onto the respective club forums

Tuesday night is perfect.

Lumen

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

How does the idea of running one of them alongside one of the club leagues? I remember the club league HC TT up Bohernabreena last year. Really well run - could one of the rounds be tagged on? (Not to step on the running clubs toes)

I'm not sure that would work. It's a real squeeze getting everyone up before it gets dark as it is.

One Tuesday night might work, as that gives a day of recovery after weekend racing and doesn't clash with Swords league (Wed?) or the 5 league interclub (Thurs). Not sure about other leagues.

edit: I see you suggested Tuesday already for that reason.

RobFowl

Swords run 2 Hill climbs as part of it's league. I suspect the extra effort in putting one on as an open event shouldn't be too onerous if there was the interest...

Beasty

I think that in Leinster Tuesday nights currently only have IVCA and Mondello Park racing, which does make it the ideal option (I think Mondays are pretty free, but most racers will be recovering from weekend racing)

Swords is Wednesday and the multi-club league is Thursday. In addition Dublin Wheelers do a TT league on Thursday evenings over about 8 weeks with 2 or 3 Howth Hill climbs included

Beasty

... I would add that given the apparent increase in uptake in racing over the past couple of years, anything that helps spread the load a bit has got to be welcomed.

TTs are a particular area that don't get much emphasis in Leinster, and if those clubs that do put them on are inundated with more interested parties there may be an issue with light early and late in the season - I was last to complete the Swords Ardgillan climb last year and it was dark enough to need at least a rear light then.

RobFowl

Beasty wrote: »

I was last to complete the Swords Ardgillan climb last year and it was dark enough to need at least a rear light then.

That was only cos you needed a pick and axe to finish

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

That was only cos you needed a pick and axe to finish

... and a lift in your car:o

kennyb3

Sound like a great idea, you only have to look at the amount of interest the howth hill climb thread and strava threads get - people clearly like timing themselves and comparing to others.

manwithaplan

RPL1 wrote: »

Do you remember the guy in the Nationals last year on Kilmashogue with the commuter bike, complete with back carrier? He was flying and far from last I think ..... and then when he was finished he went down to the bottom and did it again! Made me realise how crap I really am!

He's in our club. We're like a home for the bewildered.

I would give these a go if possible.

Inquitus

Aye this is a cracking idea and certainly something I would have a go at.

ROK ON

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye this is a cracking idea and certainly something I would have a go at.

It is a daft idea ted.

Have you seen how difficult all of those hills look.
Could we have something easy for fat middle aged blokes??

Beasty

ROK ON wrote: »

Could we have something easy for fat middle aged blokes??

Looks like we have a volunteer for timekeeping;)

Hungrycol

ROK ON wrote: »

It is a daft idea ted.

Have you seen how difficult all of those hills look.
Could we have something easy for fat middle aged blokes??

Aye, this post should be called the "3 Race Skinny Lads and Lassies Series".

levitronix

sounds like a great idea, hope you get this off the ground Ryan

ryan_sherlock

Thanks - I had been toying with the idea for a long time. Any ideas out there to throw around (even not so good ones!). Soon enough I'll sit down and try and figure out how it will actually be implemented but would love as much input as possible first.

ROK ON

ryan_sherlock wrote: »

Thanks - I had been toying with the idea for a long time. Any ideas out there to throw around (even not so good ones!). Soon enough I'll sit down and try and figure out how it will actually be implemented but would love as much input as possible first.

On a more serious note, given that you are trying to attract as large a field that is possible, then think about varying the types of climbs.

The three that you have suggested are of above average steepness in two of the cases and they are reasonably short.

How about one short and steep, (ie >8%
One like Stocking Lane that is longer and less steep, (5-6.5%)
and one that is long and a shallow climb (more of a drag so to speak). (circa 3-4%)

That way you cater for all manner of builds so to speak. So each course should gain a similar amount of metres, but over varying distances.
Just a thought.

Inquitus

ROK ON wrote: »

and one that is long and a shallow climb (more of a drag so to speak). (circa 3-4%)

Howth from Sutton would fit the bill nicely for that one.

chakattack

ROK ON wrote: »

On a more serious note, given that you are trying to attract as large a field that is possible, then think about varying the types of climbs.

The three that you have suggested are of above average steepness in two of the cases and they are reasonably short.

How about one short and steep, (ie >8%
One like Stocking Lane that is longer and less steep, (5-6.5%)
and one that is long and a shallow climb (more of a drag so to speak). (circa 3-4%)

That way you cater for all manner of builds so to speak. So each course should gain a similar amount of metres, but over varying distances.
Just a thought.

Surely it's all just power to weight no matter what the gradient? I reckon it's better to vary duration than gradient, some people are strong (compared to others) over <5mins and others over 30 mins+

One for the power climbers and one for the endurance climbers maybe?

Beasty

chakattack wrote: »

Surely it's all just power to weight no matter what the gradient?

I disagree - I can pretty much hold my own on gradients of 2-3%. Push it up to 5-6% and I will be well towards the back, even if putting out the same w/kg

Rofo

chakattack wrote: »

Surely it's all just power to weight no matter what the gradient? I reckon it's better to vary duration than gradient, some people are strong (compared to others) over <5mins and others over 30 mins+

One for the power climbers and one for the endurance climbers maybe?

Mass is less of an issue at lower gradients. Lumen posted a bar-chart illustrating this principle a while ago but I can't track it down

Rofo

Here it is

chakattack

I'm well aware of the effects of gravity - was cursing it all weekend!

We're talking about hill climbs here not draggy time trials though.

Lumen

Hillclimbs are about VAMs. Big, juicy VAMs.

No drags, no recovery sections, just a wall of pain to smear yourself against.

chakattack

Lumen wrote: »

just a wall of pain to smear yourself against.

Poetic!

(Downhill) Recovery sections are a pain in the hole if you're TT'ing...break your climbing rhythm and you have to wind a big gear up to speed to keep the power high unless it's steep enough to just tuck in and coast.

Raam

Separate comp for each rider cat maybe? In addition to fastest overall.

Lusk Doyle

Raam wrote: »

Separate comp for each rider cat maybe? In addition to fastest overall.

What about a team TT also? Five on a team with the third over the line to count?

doozerie

I think it's a great idea, though I think it could be tricky to get the balance right to appeal to a relatively large audience - for people already (open) racing regularly I can see it having a lot of appeal as something more casual, but that in itself might deter those who don't do open races, such as the sportive riders, who might see it as being like an open race and therefore out of their league. The variety of prizes listed is a very good approach to bridging the gap, I think, other novel things like prizes (or just rankings) per age category might work too.

Probably not an option under the CI rules I guess but I like the idea of a category for "unusual" bikes - MTB's, tandems, hybrids, fixed gears, recumbents (oh yes!), etc. - that fun aspect might broaden the appeal further, at the risk of turning the event into something quite frivolous. Not forgetting the "bike with child trailer" category - don't knock it, there's a lot to be said for towing your own vocal fan (or not, depending on the day!) club behind you

CuchulainnCC

Cuchulainn CC in Dundalk are running the Leinster HC champs on August 30th on a hill about 50 minutes from Airport just off the M1, we would be delighted to be part of any league.

Morrisseeee

Anyone up for a (chilly) hill climb in Wicklow this morning ??!! brrrrrrr...............:eek:

CramCycle

Considering running a HC challenge for the intervarsities myself, the big challenge is deciding on the hills, maybe set up a poll to get the ball rolling?

davidredmo

great idea, definitely would be up for it, how'd you handle traffic ?

CramCycle

davidredmo wrote: »

great idea, definitely would be up for it, how'd you handle traffic ?

I presume Marshals like most other races/TTs.