Driving offence over the border

DrPhilG

Mods if this should be in a different forum please move it, couldn't find one so thought I'd put it here as I'll probably find people who have been in the same boat.

Or if it's not appropriate to aak legal questions here at all then just close, and my apologies.

I got caught driving and using my mobile a few months ago in Strabane. Terrible thing to do, and I'm not trying to defend it. I was in a hurry and it was an important call so I took the call without pulling in.

The policeman who caught me said he couldn't issue a standard fine because of my Irish license but he would have to summons me to court to pay the fine.

Summons just arrived, and now I'm a bit confused by it. It states that I am being prosecuted by the DPP (department of public prosecutions) but that I can plead guilty by post.

My question is, is there a difference between a prosecution like this and being issued a standard fine if I had a Northern license or is it just a different procedure needed to do the same thing? Does this mean a criminal record? Like I say I'm not arguing the charge, I was guilty and deserved to be caught but that doesn't mean I should face a worse outcome because I'm a Donegal driver.

Just a bit confused by the ton of paperwork that arrived, makes it all seem a bit more threatening than getting handed a fine by the cop at the scene!

muffler

I'll move this along to the Legal Discussion forum where the guys there will probably more acquainted with the issue

jargon buster

the summons is esentially a conditional offer to pay, you either pay the fine or go to court.

DrPhilG

Have since discovered that my brother in law went through the same process a few years ago. It's all straightforward, but they do seem to try and scare the hell out of you with the paperwork.

It worked...

Peregrinus

Yes, you'll have a record.

Normally if you are given a ticket for a traffic offence, the deal is "pay the ticket and we won't prosecute you". If you pay the ticket you avoid a prosecution and, therefore, a conviction. You're not obliged to pay the fine and, if you don't, they can't take steps to recover it. They'll just go ahead with a prosecution and, if convicted, you will be fined (probably a larger amount) and if you don't pay then they will take steps to enforce that.

In this case they are not giving you that option; they are prosecuting you. If you plead guilty, a conviction will be recorded.

If you defend the charge, you may of course still be convicted. The only way you can avoid a record is by defending the charge successfully, and being acquitted.

The question is whether you are borrowed by having a conviction for driving while using a mobile recorded against you? I doubt that it will have any dramatic consequences for you.

DrPhilG

Peregrinus wrote: »

Yes, you'll have a record.

Normally if you are given a ticket for a traffic offence, the deal is "pay the ticket and we won't prosecute you". If you pay the ticket you avoid a prosecution and, therefore, a conviction. You're not obliged to pay the fine and, if you don't, they can't take steps to recover it. They'll just go ahead with a prosecution and, if convicted, you will be fined (probably a larger amount) and if you don't pay then they will take steps to enforce that.

In this case they are not giving you that option; they are prosecuting you. If you plead guilty, a conviction will be recorded.

If you defend the charge, you may of course still be convicted. The only way you can avoid a record is by defending the charge successfully, and being acquitted.

The question is whether you are borrowed by having a conviction for driving while using a mobile recorded against you? I doubt that it will have any dramatic consequences for you.

My only issue with a "criminal record" is that records can affect visas for travel etc. Although my brother in law says he was just handed the fine and that was that and I've been told by 2 UK cops that it doesn't result in a criminal record.

Peregrinus

DrPhilG wrote: »

My only issue with a "criminal record" is that records can affect visas for travel etc. Although my brother in law says he was just handed the fine and that was that and I've been told by 2 UK cops that it doesn't result in a criminal record.

Some people operate out of a paradigm in which traffic offences are considered not to be "crimes". In fact, they are.

But they are mostly pretty minor crimes. I wouldn't be overly concerned about visas and the like; when they ask about convictions they usually explicitly exclude motoring offences.

DrPhilG

Surely then I, as an Irish license holder, am discriminated against because I have no choice but to receive a criminal conviction and record, whereas a UK driver in the same situation would only receive an on the spot fine and points?

Discrimination isn't the right word, I'm not about to sue them or anything but you get the point. Why should I face a criminal record (no matter how insignificant) when another driver would have the option to avoid it?

MagicSean

DrPhilG wrote: »

Surely then I, as an Irish license holder, am discriminated against because I have no choice but to receive a criminal conviction and record, whereas a UK driver in the same situation would only receive an on the spot fine and points?

Discrimination isn't the right word, I'm not about to sue them or anything but you get the point. Why should I face a criminal record (no matter how insignificant) when another driver would have the option to avoid it?

Yes you are discriminated against in that regard but not because of your nationality but your place of residence. Although what you describe seems odd to me. How were you served the summons in the south?

Peregrinus

DrPhilG wrote: »

Surely then I, as an Irish license holder, am discriminated against because I have no choice but to receive a criminal conviction and record, whereas a UK driver in the same situation would only receive an on the spot fine and points?

Discrimination isn't the right word, I'm not about to sue them or anything but you get the point. Why should I face a criminal record (no matter how insignificant) when another driver would have the option to avoid it?

I think the point is that, if you hold a UK licence, then they have methods of responding to minor infringements without prosecution - fixed penalties, licence points, etc. These methods aren't available, or reliably available, to them if you don't hold a UK licence, so prosecution is their only enforcement option.

There's an arrangement proposed but not yet in place yet for things like licence penalty point points to work across borders within the EU, and when this is up and running it might ameliorate the situation.

Procrastastudy

I realise I'm possibly only echoing what Peregrinus has said (but badly with more words :P) but it's not really discrimination is it?

They have option A which gets used with all foriegn drivers in that country and option B, C and D which they use where their own internal systems allow. I'm not sure the copper using his discresion within the bounds of whats possible - is discrimination - doesn't the exact same happen everytime a Garda lets you away with a warning becuase he's in a good mood that day? Or everytime a copper pulls an English driver and throws the book at them becuase it's zero tolerance month?

DrPhilG

MagicSean wrote: »

Yes you are discriminated against in that regard but not because of your nationality but your place of residence. Although what you describe seems odd to me. How were you served the summons in the south?

The cop asked me for a northern address to send it to, which I provided. But of landed to me in the post in Donegal 2 days ago.