Due domande

Neil3030

Ciao tutti; sono in italia da ottobre, e' sto provando per imparare la lingue. Non ho mai fato lezioni d'italiano, dunque tutti conosco e' di solito da parlando. Dunque, una cosa sempre mi confonde -

Quando usi "mi, ti, si" etc. prima i verbi, e quando usi quelli paroli dopo i verbi (penso sono i "conjunctive pronouns"?)

Per esempio:

Piacere di conoscerti, fammi vedere, dimmi, etc

Ma,

Ti disturbo, si prega, ci vediamo, etc, (e' ironia, mi confundo!)

Per un'altra esempio, perche e' lo conosco, e' non e' io conoscalo?

Grazie!





La seconda domanda:

E' possibile comprare i film in italiano online, come Net Flicks o' Blockbuster Online? Stream o Avi, qualcosa cosi. Forse un modo buono per imprare la lingue. Grazie

jumpjack

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ciao tutti; sono in italia da ottobre, e' sto provando per imparare la lingue. Non ho mai fato lezioni d'italiano, dunque tutti conosco e' di solito da parlando. Dunque, una cosa sempre mi confonde -

Fixed:
"Ciao a tutti; sono in Italia da ottobre, e sto provando ad imparare la lingua. Non ho mai fatto [but it's wrong anyway, you must say "Non ho mai [B]preso[/B] lezioni"; "fatto" means you teached, "preso" means you participated to a class] lezioni di italiano, dunque tutto quello che so l'ho imparato parlando. Dunque, una cosa mi confonde sempre."

Quando usi "mi, ti, si" etc. prima i verbi, e quando usi quelli paroli dopo i verbi (penso sono i "conjunctive pronouns"?)

Per esempio:

Piacere di conoscerti, fammi vedere, dimmi, etc

Ma,

Ti disturbo, si prega, ci vediamo, etc, (e' ironia, mi confundo!)

Per un'altra esempio, perche e' lo conosco, e' non e' io conoscalo?

Grazie!

Here you'll need a grammar book: Italian grammar has more exceptions than rules...

La seconda domanda:

E' possibile comprare i film in italiano online, come Net Flicks o' Blockbuster Online? Stream o Avi, qualcosa cosi. Forse un modo buono per imprare la lingue. Grazie

Try if www.rai.tv and Rai Replay service are accessible from your country: it usually does not provide movies, but anyway it provides a lot of TV shows and news.

seachto7

Hi,

I went to Italy with no language and a grammar book. THE BEST way to learn a language. I picked it up so fast. HOwever, I learned bad habits, like bad grammar, and local dialect.
Being in Rome I picked up the local accent, which to many, ain't the best!

Good luck with it!!! Forza!!!

jumpjack

seachto7 wrote: »

Hi,

I went to Italy with no language and a grammar book. THE BEST way to learn a language. I picked it up so fast.

How long did you stay?

HOwever, I learned bad habits, like bad grammar, and local dialect.
Being in Rome I picked up the local accent, which to many, ain't the best!

Yes, it's ugly. :rolleyes: Rome is not the best place to learn Italian!
I think instead that dialect spoken in Tuscany is the best (and most comprehensible) one.

seachto7

I was there for 2 years, but I worked for an Italian company in Ireland doing translations, so improved my vocab and grammar a bit.

I prefer the lilt of the Northern accent, say in Lombardy, the Brescia region. I like the "up and down" of it.

I can recognise a Roman accent now, and even still, it sounds "harsh" to me.

population

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ciao tutti; sono in italia da ottobre, e' sto provando per imparare la lingue. Non ho mai fato lezioni d'italiano, dunque tutti conosco e' di solito da parlando. Dunque, una cosa sempre mi confonde -

Quando usi "mi, ti, si" etc. prima i verbi, e quando usi quelli paroli dopo i verbi (penso sono i "conjunctive pronouns"?)

Per esempio:

Piacere di conoscerti, fammi vedere, dimmi, etc

Ma,

Ti disturbo, si prega, ci vediamo, etc, (e' ironia, mi confundo!)

Per un'altra esempio, perche e' lo conosco, e' non e' io conoscalo?

Grazie

If you wrote this then your Italian is very impressive for somebody who moved to Cesena such a short time ago. Bravo.

You are actually asking a few different questions as one here, so best to separate the points raised.

Ti sei divertito? Did you enjoy yourself? In this instance you are using a reflexive verb of which there are many in Italian that we do not really use in English. For example, 'Io mi alzo', I wake myself up. We would never say such a thing in English. Just 'I wake up'.

In terms of the difference between for example 'dimmi' and 'mi dica', well this is just the difference between the Lei and Tu form. With the formal language you would say 'Mi scusa' to an older person, but 'scusami' to a friend.

Hope that helps. Also what is Cesena like? It is one of those places I am yet to visit but it is on the list!

population

seachto7 wrote: »

I was there for 2 years, but I worked for an Italian company in Ireland doing translations, so improved my vocab and grammar a bit.

I prefer the lilt of the Northern accent, say in Lombardy, the Brescia region. I like the "up and down" of it.

I can recognise a Roman accent now, and even still, it sounds "harsh" to me.

I quite like the Roman accent actually. But then I suppose I live in Naples and the accent down here is not entirely dissimilar

The Corinthian

jumpjack wrote: »

I think instead that dialect spoken in Tuscany is the best (and most comprehensible) one.

Probably. The thing to remember is that while it may be the 'purest' Tuscan Italian does deviate from standard Italian in a few places - for example, I'll often use piccino rather than piccolo and I refer to my father as babbo rather than papà. Most Italians are familiar with these minor differences though, so it's not an issue and is more commonly used as a means of identifying where someone is from if they have a neutral or educated accent.

Pronunciation is also a factor; just as Romans are rarely able to finish words and Sicilians seemingly always pronounce a 'p' as a 'b', Florentines cannot pronounce a hard 'c' to save their lives - just ask one to order a Coke with a straw from a waiter

population

LOL. I have heard this. 'Una hoha per favore':D

seachto7

population wrote: »

LOL. I have heard this. 'Una hoha per favore':D

hon huna hanuca horto

Irish Stones

jumpjack wrote: »

I think instead that dialect spoken in Tuscany is the best (and most comprehensible) one.

The dialect spoken in Tuscany might sound incomprehnesible to many people far from Tuscany.
The fact that they don't pronounce the "c" in first position in the words (Like "cane", "casa", "cosa", ecc), when put in long sentences may distract and tire the listeners.

The Corinthian

Irish Stones wrote: »

The dialect spoken in Tuscany might sound incomprehnesible to many people far from Tuscany.

Probably because their first language is not Italian, but a dialect. I'd find it difficult to believe that Tuscan Italian would be so non-standard as to be incomprehensible.

The fact that they don't pronounce the "c" in first position in the words (Like "cane", "casa", "cosa", ecc), when put in long sentences may distract and tire the listeners.

In fairness, that's more a Florentine than a Tuscan thing, and even in Florence its use varies.

Irish Stones

The Corinthian wrote: »

Probably because their first language is not Italian, but a dialect. I'd find it difficult to believe that Tuscan Italian would be so non-standard as to be incomprehensible.

In fairness, that's more a Florentine than a Tuscan thing, and even in Florence its use varies.

I have two friends living in Piombino, a city that is 150 km from Florence.
When I talk to them on the phone it's quite an ordeal and I can assure you that after 20 minutes of it I feel as tired as a whole day of work.
They aspirate more than the "c" in their words and they use a different vocabulary for a lot of words, so sometimes you have to ask them what they're meaning with such a word.
In my opinion the north-central dialects aren't that clear to the ears of a northern Italian.
I'd say that the most understandable accents in Italian language are those from the northern regions, and namely Piemonte, Valle d'Aosta and Lombardia. We're not talking about their regional languages, but how they speak Italian.
Northeastern people tend to "eat their words", they speak fast and "slip" over many sounds.
In Emilia Romagna they have a pretty clear Italian, but they tend to make "c" and "g" sound like "z", and the "z" sound like "s".
From Rome down south it's all a disaster!

The Corinthian

Irish Stones wrote: »

In my opinion the north-central dialects aren't that clear to the ears of a northern Italian.

To begin with they're not dialects; we're discussing regional variations of the Italian language. If we are talking dialects, I suspect that Tuscan would be far more intelligible to the average Italian than Lombard, for example.

Secondly, I would say the same of more northern accents; they're often unclear and hard work, to a north-central ear. You get the same thing in most countries, even small ones like Ireland, where English spoken in the West can be hard work for a Dubliner and a 'north side' Dublin accent is close to unintelligible to many Irish. Less said about Ulster the better.

I'd say that the most understandable accents in Italian language are those from the northern regions, and namely Piemonte, Valle d'Aosta and Lombardia. We're not talking about their regional languages, but how they speak Italian.

Arguable, for the reason I outlined above. The Piemontese accent, perhaps, but definitely not the Lombard one.

From Rome down south it's all a disaster!

Quello è poco ma sicuro.

Irish Stones

The Corinthian wrote: »

To begin with they're not dialects; we're discussing regional variations of the Italian language. If we are talking dialects, I suspect that Tuscan would be far more intelligible to the average Italian than Lombard, for example.

I used the term "dialect" because in other occasions English-speaking people told me that what we Italians call it "accent" is "dialect" in English, and what we call it "dialect" is "language" in English.
I apologize for that.
So if we're talking about dialects, as different regioanl languages, well, yes, Tuscan is the most intellegible of them all, mainly because it's very much similar to Italian.
Piemontese dialect is very close to French language if you are in Turin area and its west surroundings, but it tends to be more like Lombardo dialect if you move north-east, or more like Ligure dialect if you go south-east.
It's common opinion of people from many parts of Italy that the Italian that we speak over here is the clearest of all country and has a "noble" lilt.

You get the same thing in most countries, even small ones like Ireland, where English spoken in the West can be hard work for a Dubliner and a 'north side' Dublin accent is close to unintelligible to many Irish. Less said about Ulster the better.

This thing fascinates me and I would like to know more about it.
Is there a webpage where this issue is discussed more thoroughly?

The Corinthian

Irish Stones wrote: »

I used the term "dialect" because in other occasions English-speaking people told me that what we Italians call it "accent" is "dialect" in English, and what we call it "dialect" is "language" in English.

They're incorrect. Anglophones have very little understanding of dialects because there's few real examples of them in English. As a result many erroneously presume a dialect is akin to the difference between UK and, say Australian English, which in reality are actually minor variations in the same language (standard English), compared to what most Europeans would consider dialects.

It's common opinion of people from many parts of Italy that the Italian that we speak over here is the clearest of all country and has a "noble" lilt.

Only because of the Savoia and, to a lesser but popular extent, people such as Gianni Agnelli, who famously spoke an educated and measured Piemontese accent.

In reality, the nobility (or what remains of it) speak in every regional accent, except it will tend to be more subdued or 'softer' than normal and the language used will be more educated and measured.

This thing fascinates me and I would like to know more about it.
Is there a webpage where this issue is discussed more thoroughly?

No idea. There was a very good documentary done about the English language, done by the BBC, that covered this a few years ago. If I find the name to it, I'll post it here later.