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M50 speed limits

  • 02-04-2012 9:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭


    Apologies if this is the incorrect forum for this, or if it's been posted before - was on the M50 southbound from the N32 through to the N4 junction at the weekend (first time over that way in ages) and noticed that pretty much all of that section is now limited to 100kmh.

    I was aware that the section up at junction 12/13 was that speed due to the way it was "engineered" but what's the story with the long stretches over at the N2/N3 junctions and why the reduced speed limit ?

    As an aside, came off at the N4 which of course carries a ludicrous 80kmh limit until it becomes the M4 when it narrows to 2 lanes, has a dodgy cheese-wire barrier instead of the solid one on the N4, and has zero lighting, no nearside barriers, but hey, limit increases to 120kmh

    What is with this country ? Do they just do it on purpose to f@@k with our minds !?!?!?


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37 Ronnie Binge


    jrar wrote: »
    Apologies if this is the incorrect forum for this, or if it's been posted before - was on the M50 southbound from the N32 through to the N4 junction at the weekend (first time over that way in ages) and noticed that pretty much all of that section is now limited to 100kmh.

    I was aware that the section up at junction 12/13 was that speed due to the way it was "engineered" but what's the story with the long stretches over at the N2/N3 junctions and why the reduced speed limit ?

    As an aside, came off at the N4 which of course carries a ludicrous 80kmh limit until it becomes the M4 when it narrows to 2 lanes, has a dodgy cheese-wire barrier instead of the solid one on the N4, and has zero lighting, no nearside barriers, but hey, limit increases to 120kmh

    What is with this country ? Do they just do it on purpose to f@@k with our minds !?!?!?

    No, it's a revenue generating exercise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    jrar wrote: »

    As an aside, came off at the N4 which of course carries a ludicrous 80kmh limit until it becomes the M4 when it narrows to 2 lanes, has a dodgy cheese-wire barrier instead of the solid one on the N4, and has zero lighting, no nearside barriers, but hey, limit increases to 120kmh

    Same thing happens outbound on the N7. As soon as you pass the exit for Naas north you drop from three lanes with a new surface (thanks to the Ryder Cup) to two old lanes (the original Naas bypass) and the speed limit increases from 100 kph to 120 kph.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭AltAccount


    No, it's a revenue generating exercise.

    Any idea how many speeding fines are issued on the M50? I'd say it's a tiny proportion tbh.

    How could the 100kmph limit be revenue generating?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭jrar


    AltAccount wrote: »
    Any idea how many speeding fines are issued on the M50? I'd say it's a tiny proportion tbh.

    How could the 100kmph limit be revenue generating?

    Well I chose to observe the limit on the day in question and not only did it feel like I was hardly moving, but I was being passed by 2 lanes of faster-moving traffic all the way over to the N4 exit, so on that basis, some sort of blanket gatso set-up would be absolutely raking it in !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,188 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    coylemj wrote: »
    Same thing happens outbound on the N7. As soon as you pass the exit for Naas north you drop from three lanes with a new surface (thanks to the Ryder Cup) to two old lanes (the original Naas bypass) and the speed limit increases from 100 kph to 120 kph.

    The Naas Bypass was resurfaced in ca. 2008.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    So, how should speed limits be determined? What are the important factors?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    Victor wrote: »
    So, how should speed limits be determined? What are the important factors?

    Victor, we are all aware that the driving expertise on this forum and the Motors exceeds all in the western world. What I would recommend is a poll to set the speed limit. Each week a new stretch of road will be proposed and voted upon. The council can then implement the new speed limit safe in the knowledge it has been set by experts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    AltAccount wrote: »
    Any idea how many speeding fines are issued on the M50? I'd say it's a tiny proportion tbh.

    How could the 100kmph limit be revenue generating?

    The 80km limit on the N4 is the revenue generator. There's a van on the road nearly every day. It's one of the few roads I use cruise control on.
    Victor wrote: »
    So, how should speed limits be determined? What are the important factors?

    The 85th to 90th percentile of traffic flow.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭hardCopy


    AltAccount wrote: »
    Any idea how many speeding fines are issued on the M50? I'd say it's a tiny proportion tbh.

    How could the 100kmph limit be revenue generating?

    I've never seen a Gatso on the M50, I go from N32 to Blanch every day and back. They do have a fixed cam just before the Airport northbound though and just before Blanch southbound. I'd imagine most people who use the road know exactly where to slow down though.

    I thought the reduced limit had something to do with narrower than standard lanes since the third lane was added.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 411 ✭✭Wibbler


    hardCopy wrote: »
    I've never seen a Gatso on the M50, I go from N32 to Blanch every day and back. They do have a fixed cam just before the Airport northbound though and just before Blanch southbound. I'd imagine most people who use the road know exactly where to slow down though.

    I thought the reduced limit had something to do with narrower than standard lanes since the third lane was added.

    There are no fixed speed cameras on the M50. Those that were there were removed with the upgrade. New markings were painted on the lanes after the upgrade, but to the best of my knowledge the cameras have not been installed.

    There are a third set of those markings near the Tallaght exit heading northbound.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The 80km limit on the N4 is the revenue generator. There's a van on the road nearly every day. It's one of the few roads I use cruise control on.

    Thats 80km because...

    1) Private entrances on the road
    2) Includes bus lanes - alot of weaving at exits
    3) Some exits e.g M50 require a right turn
    4) Sheer congestion on the road (its Dublin!)

    But despite all of that, i do think a case could have been made for maybe 90 speed limit if such a limit was available to use. 80 is a bit daft. Alternatively, variable speed limits so that somebody from 7pm to 7am could go 100 on it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,580 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    jrar wrote: »
    I was aware that the section up at junction 12/13 was that speed due to the way it was "engineered"
    It seems it was actually because of the noise levels - the higher the speed, the higher the noise.
    but what's the story with the long stretches over at the N2/N3 junctions and why the reduced speed limit ?
    More traffic, more frequent junctions, narrower lanes compared to other motorways. The optimum speed for getting traffic along a road is about 60km/h and such a speed limit is enforced on the M25 in London. The higher the speed, the lower the throughput.
    As an aside, came off at the N4 which of course carries a ludicrous 80kmh limit until it becomes the M4 when it narrows to 2 lanes, has a dodgy cheese-wire barrier instead of the solid one on the N4, and has zero lighting, no nearside barriers, but hey, limit increases to 120kmh
    The Lucan road has more traffic, more frequent junctions, narrower lanes compared to the Leixlip-Maynooth-Kilcock Bypass. It also has lots of pedestrians, cyclists, weaving traffic, private entrances, petrols stations and bus stops.
    What is with this country ? Do they just do it on purpose to f@@k with our minds !?!?
    No, its that the motorists are undereducated and only see what suits them.
    But despite all of that, i do think a case could have been made for maybe 90 speed limit if such a limit was available to use. 80 is a bit daft.
    I'm not so sure, having a speed limit for everyone in the audience risks creating additional confusion.
    coylemj wrote: »
    Same thing happens outbound on the N7. As soon as you pass the exit for Naas north you drop from three lanes with a new surface (thanks to the Ryder Cup) to two old lanes (the original Naas bypass) and the speed limit increases from 100 kph to 120 kph.
    Again: more traffic, more frequent junctions, some pedestrians, cyclists, weaving traffic, private entrances, petrols stations and bus stops.
    AltAccount wrote: »
    Any idea how many speeding fines are issued on the M50? I'd say it's a tiny proportion tbh.
    About 4% of speeding fines are issued on motorways. I don't know the specifics of the M50.
    Alternatively, variable speed limits so that somebody from 7pm to 7am could go 100 on it
    Having variable speed limits would mean putting in lots of overhead gantries - something that we can't afford right now.
    Del2005 wrote: »
    The 85th to 90th percentile of traffic flow.
    A useful tool, but not the only one. Notably it only takes into account collisions, not other factors like noise, pollution, user experience, etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,188 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    1) Private entrances on the road

    Not many, far less than there was was. Sum total of one between M4 and Ballydowd (Woodies/ORR) overpass.
    3) Some exits e.g M50 require a right turn

    Limit is 60km/h through there anyway

    The Lucan BP was 60mph when it opened and it was far more dangerous then. Should be 100km/h now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Look and compare the limits on the N86 or N66 say.
    parts of the n86 in a 100 limit are unsafe/ exceptionally hard to go by at 30kmh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    The reason for the 100km/hr speed limit is that a certain amount of time needs to be available for a driver to move from the outside lane to the inside lane in between junctions. Hence why the limit goes up when you go from a 3 lane to 2 lane road


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,696 ✭✭✭trad


    I prefer the current 100 km/h limit on the M50 to the old day of blazing along at 120km/h and then queueing for 30 minutes to pay the toll.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭highdef


    Thats 80km because...

    1) Private entrances on the road
    2) Includes bus lanes - alot of weaving at exits
    3) Some exits e.g M50 require a right turn
    4) Sheer congestion on the road (its Dublin!)

    But despite all of that, I do think a case could have been made for maybe 90 speed limit if such a limit was available to use. 80 is a bit daft. Alternatively, variable speed limits so that somebody from 7pm to 7am could go 100 on it

    1) Bar the entrance to St Loman's near Liffey Valley, I'm not aware of any private entrances on the main carriageway.

    2) The issue with bus lanes in the only real problem I can see with raising the speed limit. However, I do remember at one stage after the bus lane was installed on the old N3, there were separate speed limits for the bus lane and the normal lane.

    3) The only tight turn I can think of is the entry on to the eastbound carriageway (on your left obviously) as you pass Tesco on your right. The N7 has many many tight turns on entry/exits yet still has a 100kmh limit.As for the M50 being a tight turn, I would not agree that it is suitable 100, never mind 80 as it is all up and down and is a proper pinch point so does require a slower limit.

    4) Have you driven on the N7 lately? At times, this can be a lot busier than the N4. One major reason why the N4 can appear much busier than it is (outbound at least), drivers have some odd fear of using lane 1 because lane 1 ends as a normal lane just before junction 5, Leixlip. Therefore the majority cruise along in lanes 2 and 3 all the way from the M50. It can be a boon at times though because when lanes 2 & 3 are full and moving slowly, I can make greater progress in lane 1. Unless someone can correct me, overtaking on the inside lane is permitted when traffic in the right lane is moving slowly?

    Anyway, N4 is most definitely capable of a 100kmh limit. If the N7 can manage it, the N4 most certainly can!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭highdef


    Victor wrote: »
    Again: more traffic, more frequent junctions, some pedestrians, cyclists, weaving traffic, private entrances, petrols stations and bus stops.

    And again, the N7 is just as busy, if not busier and has all the things you mention above plus more. The N4 has separate foot paths and cycle lanes which the N7 does not. There is no legal reason for me not to walk or cycle along the hard shoulder of the N7 whilst traffic whizzes past about a metre from me at about 100. On the N4, I would be completely separate and also have a big bus lane as a barrier. Incidentally, bus stops on the N4 are all within the bus lanes which the average joe soap has no business to be in at any time anyway. Where are bus stops on the N7, as I'm not so familiar?

    The N7 has plenty and plenty of weaving traffic and it works, despite higher traffic volumes at times.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Mark200 wrote: »
    The reason for the 100km/hr speed limit is that a certain amount of time needs to be available for a driver to move from the outside lane to the inside lane in between junctions. Hence why the limit goes up when you go from a 3 lane to 2 lane road

    The worst thing is that this could actually be true:eek:. There are plenty of faster wider roads where people manage to get off at the correct junction.

    If someone needs a 100km/h speed limit to see their junctions on a motorway I'm sorry but that person shouldn't be driving as they are incompetent. There are signs at least 1km from every junction and at least 2 more before the 300m warning marker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Mark200 wrote: »
    The reason for the 100km/hr speed limit is that a certain amount of time needs to be available for a driver to move from the outside lane to the inside lane in between junctions. Hence why the limit goes up when you go from a 3 lane to 2 lane road

    The worst thing is that this could actually be true
    It is true. That's why I said it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,102 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Mark200 wrote: »
    It is true. That's why I said it.

    Proof? And when you provide it my opinion of Irish drivers and worst our planners has dropped to to a new low.

    AFAIK the road is 100km/h as the lanes are too narrow for 120km/h.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Proof? And when you provide it my opinion of Irish drivers and worst our planners has dropped to to a new low.

    AFAIK the road is 100km/h as the lanes are too narrow for 120km/h.

    Someone from the NRA said it on the radio a few months back when asked.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,056 ✭✭✭Tragedy




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