Gaeilge the Third most spoken language in Éire

An Riabhach

So the Census 2011 results show that Gaeilge is the 3rd most spoken language here in Ireland;3rd BEHIND 2nd placed Polish-that is.

OK,we'll just have to put up with the fact that English will always be 1st.But I for one am extremely annoyed that Polish is more widely spoken than our own language.I mean for fecks sake-this is Ireland,our country,and our language should be more widely spoken than any other foreign language here.Do you think we can ever make this happen?Fair play to Bernard Dunne for everything he is trying to do.

Ba cheart dúinn go léir an Ghaeilge a cur ar barr arís.

Séasán.

GaryIrv93

Maybe if the Irish language was taught better in schools then it would make a big resurgence - to many students, it's an extremely dull subject, which drives them away from future usage of the language. It's one reason why Irish is behind Polish in this country. Also the fact that it's a compulsory subject is definitley harming it even futher.

An Riabhach

I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that Irish is indeed taught badly in schools,with the exception of Gaeltacht areas and Gaelscoileanna throughout the country.But my fears about non-compulsory Irish would be that less and less people would be choosing to do Irish.

What would also help,I think,would be if children of Polish or any other nationality living here,could learn Irish in primary schools at least.I don't know how the school system works for foreign nationals-are they exempt from learning Irish?

GaryIrv93

Seasan wrote: »

I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that Irish is indeed taught badly in schools,with the exception of Gaeltacht areas and Gaelscoileanna throughout the country.But my fears about non-compulsory Irish would be that less and less people would be choosing to do Irish.

What would also help,I think,would be if children of Polish or any other nationality living here,could learn Irish in primary schools at least.I don't know how the school system works for foreign nationals-are they exempt from learning Irish?

You're probably right that less students would choose it, but I'd think they wouldn't hold such a resentment against it if they were given the option - forcing students to learn it is creating the bad attitude, along with being forced to learn a subject that isn't even taught well. One possibility though is that if it was removed as a core subject, then more students actually might feel confident enough in the language to give it a second chance and do it for the LC. However there is a good excuse to choose not to learn Irish - as English will always be the dominant language. Besides, most Irish people can't hold a simple conversation in Irish, despite learning it for 14 years in school, so there's not really much point in learning it if nobody else can speak it back to you. Still though, it is our native language - more people should be able to speak it)

I don't think foreign kids (if they're brought up speaking their native language) can suddenly just start learning an alien language (Irish), unless they were born and raised in Ireland. It wouldn't really be fair, especially if let's say a 9 year old Polish kid has moved to Ireland over 4 years behind the rest of the class. (Learning Irish-wise). I think that's how it goes.

The thing is though, the majority of Polish or any other foreign families might only choose to move to Ireland until their child's education is complete due to Ireland's good education system. (Personally, I hate our education system. We should adopt one like Finland's.) Anyway that foreign familie's education system back home mightn't be great, so they might choose to have their child educated in Ireland, and then move back home when things there improve.

mr chips

AFAIR, when I was in school the rule was that children from other countries would be exempted from learning Irish if they were 11 or older once they started attending school here - otherwise, they had to do it along with everyone else. Open to correction on this, and I've no idea if the situation has changed since the 1980s.

An gal gréine

In our schools Irish is taught as a subject, not as a language!

An Riabhach

The attidude of some orgnisations here towards the language also leaves a lot to be desired.

Yesterday I was looking at a notice in the window of the local Citizens Information Centre,it was an information notice which was written in English,and also a number of foreign language versions which even included what look like Chinese or Japanese-but absolutely no Irish version.I was disgusted by this,so I emailed them about it.

More than likely it will be ignored.

But I couldn't ignore it-for the reasons mentioned in my first post.

ciaran1212

They should phase in Irish language medium schooling throughout the whole country. Pass a law saying that in, say, 10 years all schools will have to start teaching Junior infants classes through Irish. Then Junior and Senior infants the next year. Then Junior infants, Senior infants and First Class the year after that and so on. That way the generation of children that start school in 2022 will go through the entire system in Irish. This gives teachers (who are supposed to be able to speak Irish already) 10 years to learn the language well enough to teach through it, and any teacher taken on between now and then can be required to have excellent Irish, and some of the teachers now teaching (who may or may not have good Irish) will have retired by then. It also gives teachers of secondary school students (who will presumably need even better Irish) more time (the 6 years while the primary school kids are growing up) to learn the language (and more time to recruit fluent teachers/ let non-fluent teachers retire). An off-shoot of this would be that, given that graduates of Gaelscoileanna would be sought after for teaching positions, more parents would enroll their children into the existing Gaelscoileanna. Seems like everyone wins.

GaryIrv93

GaryIrv93 wrote: »

Maybe if the Irish language was taught better in schools then it would make a big resurgence - to many students, it's an extremely dull subject, which drives them away from future usage of the language. It's one reason why Irish is behind Polish in this country. Also the fact that it's a compulsory subject is definitley harming it even futher.

It doesn’t really matter how it is taught at school if the children are not using the language elsewhere! If parents show an interest in the language, then their children will do so as well, I do try to use a cúpla focail with the children from time to time, just so their school learning has an outside element (my Irish is far from perfect).

I'm not sure if what I do helps, but they do come to me when they need help with the Irish homework and not the missus (who left Irish at the school gate when she left).

PS I was educated in England so have no experience of formal Irish learning.

desiredbard

Seasan wrote: »

So the Census 2011 results show that Gaeilge is the 3rd most spoken language here in Ireland;3rd BEHIND 2nd placed Polish-that is.

OK,we'll just have to put up with the fact that English will always be 1st.But I for one am extremely annoyed that Polish is more widely spoken than our own language.I mean for fecks sake-this is Ireland,our country,and our language should be more widely spoken than any other foreign language here.Do you think we can ever make this happen?Fair play to Bernard Dunne for everything he is trying to do.

Ba cheart dúinn go léir an Ghaeilge a cur ar barr arís.

Séasán.

Agree but it brings another issue as well.... Which I noticed back in Holland...and which has been confirmed to be by a Czech girl here..... Kids are behind in their language (English) in school.
Its simple foreigners.... speak the countries language you are living in at home.... Do your kids ghr favour. No problem with your native language ascsuch....If I see how easy my 4 year old learns Irish which is not spoken at home ..... I should have paid more attention to his Dutch. First priority for me was proper English. And an environment that is not negative dismissive of Irish...read: notvto much foreign influence
ROLL ON GEALSCOIL

Ms.M

I absolutely love having non-nationals in my classroom. The rule is still that you have to learn Irish if you come after the age of eleven, and even with that handicap Nigerian, Arab and Polish kids tend to do much better at Irish than their Irish counterparts.
Irish is no longer taught the way it used to be. 50% of the LC is now for Aural/Oral. There are actually more points available if you have to read a poem as part of the Oral than there are if the same poem appeared on the written paper. The first LC's to be taken through this system will be in 2012 and I admit not every teacher is sufficiently emphasising the Oral component at the moment but there are lots of opportunities now to make Irish a living language in the classroom.
But these changes aren't enough. We really need to deal with peoples attitudes to Irish. A Polish child or parent would never consider making the remarks I've heard from Irish children and parents about the language because they would consider them offensive and bigoted. I don't think being Irish entitles you to make slurs against a culture that is clearly not shared by you. A lot of people forget that the Equal Status Act was motivated by the need to ensure civil rights for people in Gaeltacht communites. They constantly belittle these communities. The majority of non-Gaeltacht people (myself inlcuded) are for the language. Indeed in an MRBI poll 65% of people in the 15-24 age category wanted Irish to remain a compulsory subject at Leaving Cert level. So there is hope! But I would say that if the same poll was put to new citizens or non-nationals exclusively the percentage would be even higher.
Monolingual... Must do better
Bilingual... Good
Multilingual... Excellent!
Hurrah for Polish kids, improving the standard of Irish across the country by shaming the Irish into working harder. That's what's called showing how its done!

deise go deo

I think it should be pointed out that the Census does not say that there are more daily speakers of Polish in Ireland than Daily speakers of Irish, it does not ask how often people speak polish.

Sure there are 100,000+ people in Ireland who can speak Polish fluently, but then there are more than that abel to speak Irish fluently.
Not that the number of Polish speakers in the country makes any difference to the health of the Irish Language.

Its easy to blame the education system, and there are plenty of problems in it, but the truth is that the Education system was never going to, and will never revive the language on its own.
The ratio of learners to native speakers of Irish is the highest of any language in the world. Irish does not lack learners, it lacks oppertunities for people who can speak Irish to use it.

An Riabhach

Seasan wrote: »

The attidude of some orgnisations here towards the language also leaves a lot to be desired.

Yesterday I was looking at a notice in the window of the local Citizens Information Centre,it was an information notice which was written in English,and also a number of foreign language versions which even included what look like Chinese or Japanese-but absolutely no Irish version.I was disgusted by this,so I emailed them about it.

More than likely it will be ignored.

But I couldn't ignore it-for the reasons mentioned in my first post.

Glad to say that they replied to my email and took this into account.They said that the poster in question was given to them by the Citizens Information Board,and apparently there is a download as Gaeilge option on the website,but acknowledged that Gaeilge was not included on the actual poster-and that it should have been.

They have since placed a "Know Your Rights" notice in their window,which is all as Gaeilge.I'm delighted they did this-at least they acknowledged it.

Jiminez365

"Hurrah for Polish kids, improving the standard of Irish across the country by shaming the Irish into working harder. That's what's called showing how its done! "

Tá an ceart agat Ms.M. My friend's daughter goes to school in Naas and a Polish girl is best in her class in Irish!