The will to survive

Doc Ruby

There was an intersting story doing the rounds a few days ago about a real life survival situation:

Teen survives 28 days at sea, forced to dump boat-mates bodies overboard

A Panamanian teenager, 18, survived a harrowing 28 days at sea which brutally took the lives of his two friends and boat-mates. Adrian Vasquez set out to sea with his two friends on a fishing trip February 24th. The trio sailed out on a 10-foot fishing boat when the boat’s motor apparently stopped working, leaving two teens and one man stranded and drifting. Vasquez’s will to survive likely carried him until he finally got rescued last Sunday. He was found suffering from severe dehydration and malnutrition and nearly dead.

According to MSNBC World News, Vasquez told the rescue ship that his two friends died of dehydration, starvation and heat stroke and that they had given up in their final days and hours. He said that all three of them tried to survive off of raw fish, using nets and rain water.

Vasquez said the first of his friends to die was Oropeces Betancourt, 24, who had stopped eating and drinking two weeks before he died. His death lead Vasquez with the grisly task of having to throw his body over the side of boat on March 13th, 3 days after his death, after his body started to decompose. Fernano Osorio, 16, reportedly died on March 15th, about 10 days before Vasquez was rescued.

Vasquez said they experienced a rain storm just hours before Osorio died, which allowed him to collect drinking water and continue to survive.

Vasquez was found drifting off the coast of the Galapagos Islands by a commercial liner who later handed the teen over the Ecuadorean Navy. The Navy reported that Vasquez wished only to make two calls — one to his mother to say he was okay and one to boss at the hotel he worked, letting him know why he hadn’t been to work in so long.

The most important thing about this experience for me is that it underlines the value of willpower and keeping your spirits up in survival situations. The difference between making it and dying can quite often be one of mental attitude.

This is why you see an emphasis on morale and staying in a positive frame of mind in shows like the mighty Ray Mears hosts. Some of the emotions that survivors have described include guilt, shame (how could I have gotten myself into this mess) and despair.

I can't recall the exact details at the minute, but this was also emphasised by another maritime story, where a ship sank and two life rafts were launched. By the time they were recovered, the crew of one of them were in terrible shape, unable to get into the rescue craft without assistance, and the captain had in fact died. In the other, headed by the first mate who had kept discipline and morale up, the sailors were well able to move under their own impetus and were in fine health.

The only difference between the two rafts was literally mental attitude.

baords dyslexic

Other similar cases I've read (and I must find some links) are of Monks being in extreme situtations and surviving when you wouldn't expect it. Again mental attitude. A strange comment but I think its a cat like attiude in some cases, just watch a cat that wants to get out of a room when the doors shut, does if fly around the room in a panic or just lie down and go to sleep and wake up when the door is opened?

Edit> Call me a cynic but if there were no bodies to find because they had been thrown overboard then other issues spring to mind??????

baords dyslexic

While looking for info on Monks surviving (I just know there was a very famous incedent years back ) I found this
Seven Proven Ways to Live A Happy Life , a least half those points would improve anyones will (an or ability) to survive.

I'm not sure will to survive is quite right, bacause I think its more mental attitude that leads to survival. Many survivors (IMHO:o) have long ago "made piece with there maker" for want of a better expression and have the attitude to survive because they are not worried about death - could be I'm describing "peace of mind"?

Doc Ruby

baords dyslexic wrote: »

I'm not sure will to survive is quite right, bacause I think its more mental attitude that leads to survival. Many survivors (IMHO:o) have long ago "made piece with there maker" for want of a better expression and have the attitude to survive because they are not worried about death - could be I'm describing "peace of mind"?

I'd disagree with that, its the opposite approach that leads to survival. Anyone resigned to their fate won't be long meeting it.

KrustyBurger

Excellent thread on a subject close to my heart.

I would recommend reading Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning". It's the true story of Frankl who was incarcerated for 3 years in a concentration camp during WW2. In it he describes seeing men giving up. They would smoke their last cigarette and eat their last piece of potato and be dead in the morning. His quotes are legendary.

"Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing: the last of human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

"If a prisoner felt that he could no longer endure the realities of camp life, he found a way out in his mental life– an invaluable opportunity to dwell in the spiritual domain, the one that the SS were unable to destroy. Spiritual life strengthened the prisoner, helped him adapt, and thereby improved his chances of survival."

baords dyslexic

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I'd disagree with that, its the opposite approach that leads to survival. Anyone resigned to their fate won't be long meeting it.

No I don't think I explained myself very well, there's a difference between being resigned to your fate and being at peace with yourself and the world - I'm still not finding the right words. If the human body can stretch to say 28 days in a survival situation and one guy goes all out in the first few days to frantically save himself he might have used all his emotional and physical strength up long before the 28 days but another person might emotionally and physically pace themselves and keep going.
What I seem to be saying is that you can have a very strong will to live and in some situations that might kill you. But obviously depends on the actual situation, and fate takes a massive hand, stuck in a boat and rowing like mad might save you or kill you, doing nothing and saving your energy might also kill you if rowing would have got you to an island or nearer a sea lane.

Can we agree on "Panic Kills"

Doc Ruby

Hmm, to me the "will to survive" is something divorced from one's skills, charisma, intelligence, or physical fitness. Its something some people find when they dig deep enough, and also something that can be taught to a certain extent.

Its not not related to particular activities like frantically rowing or gunning down women and children to protect a food stash like a sociopathic idiot would do. Its more of an attitude or outlook, playing up your successes mentally and ignoring the failures.

In the story linked, the bit I have bolded is a perfect example of someone who didn't have that will, for one reason or another. He just gave up, stopped eating and drinking, and passed away. It may seem bizarre to us sitting here in our comfy chairs hammering at keyboards, but this is what happens. Its a real danger that most wouldn't be aware of until they found themselves in a survival situation, maybe more of a serious danger than the environment or injuries.

The only word for it is will, really. I totally agree that panic kills though!:D

Tabnabs

Whatever about the will to survive, the rule that was drummed into my head was not to give up once the rescue services had picked you up. Apparently it's not unheard of for people to endure a survival situation only to die in the helicopter back to a medical centre. Always, always fight to survive both mentally and physically.

Doc Ruby

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Even in the hands of competent medical attention, there is still a major psychological element to survival.

bonniebede

KrustyBurger wrote: »

Excellent thread on a subject close to my heart.

I would recommend reading Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning". It's the true story of Frankl who was incarcerated for 3 years in a concentration camp during WW2. In it he describes seeing men giving up. They would smoke their last cigarette and eat their last piece of potato and be dead in the morning. His quotes are legendary.

"Everything can be taken from a man or a woman but one thing: the last of human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

"If a prisoner felt that he could no longer endure the realities of camp life, he found a way out in his mental life– an invaluable opportunity to dwell in the spiritual domain, the one that the SS were unable to destroy. Spiritual life strengthened the prisoner, helped him adapt, and thereby improved his chances of survival."

I liked that book. Never thought of thinking of it as part of my professional library.
Watched a film recently 'to end all wars' based on the experience of a group ina japanese prisoner camp in WW2 which dealt with the same point. THey were building the burma railway, and started a university to keep a focus and mental discipline on something other than their likely death, which helped many of them survive.

Cork boy 55

Doc Ruby wrote: »

........cut edit .....

I can't recall the exact details at the minute, but this was also emphasised by another maritime story, where a ship sank and two life rafts were launched. By the time they were recovered, the crew of one of them were in terrible shape, unable to get into the rescue craft without assistance, and the captain had in fact died. In the other, headed by the first mate who had kept discipline and morale up, the sailors were well able to move under their own impetus and were in fine health.

The only difference between the two rafts was literally mental attitude.

I have heard this story before
Was anyone got a link to it?

Thrace

Its an interesting topic. How far can your resove take you on an empty belly, in the cold when the worlds possibly fallen apart? At least for preppers the empty belly will be less of an issue. For good preppers the cold shouldnt be either. :D

I think maybe it's easier have the will to live with others around, so thats one more reason to have a group for post shtf. Apart from the encouragement, humour (absolutely neccessary imo) and practicality of it - looking after others provides a will to go that bit further that you wouldnt do on your own.

Doc Ruby

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I have heard this story before
Was anyone got a link to it?

I still can't recall the details, but I think maritime training practices were changed as a result of it?

Thrace wrote: »

Its an interesting topic. How far can your resove take you on an empty belly, in the cold when the worlds possibly fallen apart?

This is the thing though, even with adequate food, some people just lay down and die, or otherwise harm their chances of survival in a completely illogical manner.

waterboy15

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

I have heard this story before
Was anyone got a link to it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Gg14m1GHA&feature=relmfu

Thrace

Doc Ruby wrote: »

This is the thing though, even with adequate food, some people just lay down and die, or otherwise harm their chances of survival in a completely illogical manner.

When it happens in normal life, the health board uses mood altering chemicals to 'help'. Now I'm wondering should I add the same to my preps although I think thats what all the 'emergency vodka' and home brew gear is for.

The army uses emergency stims to combat fatigue and hunger, and I wonder how many vials of med grade morphine have been used to 'settle' people so should we have civilian alternatives? It's worth thinking about.

Just when you think you're finished prepping..:rolleyes::D

Doc Ruby

waterboy15 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Gg14m1GHA&feature=relmfu

Aha! Thank you, thats been killing me. Starts at 3:50, the fishing boat West One.

Thrace wrote: »

When it happens in normal life, the health board uses mood altering chemicals to 'help'. Now I'm wondering should I add the same to my preps although I think thats what all the 'emergency vodka' and home brew gear is for.

The army uses emergency stims to combat fatigue and hunger, and I wonder how many vials of med grade morphine have been used to 'settle' people so should we have civilian alternatives? It's worth thinking about.

Just when you think you're finished prepping..:rolleyes::D

Strongly advise against mind altering substances in survival situations, anything heavier than tea or coffee anyway.

Thrace

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Strongly advise against mind altering substances in survival situations, anything heavier than tea or coffee anyway.

I think theres a certain logic to it. I'd rather medicate a group member than lose them- at least long enough to establish a new routine and let them adjust to the shock. Obviously, that would be no good in a dinghy at sea situation but I'm always thinking of large society wide shtf scenarios, out of habit.

It would be great if we could all go zen on it and be at peace but not everyone can do that.

Doc Ruby

Thrace wrote: »

I think theres a certain logic to it. I'd rather medicate a group member than lose them- at least long enough to establish a new routine and let them adjust to the shock. Obviously, that would be no good in a dinghy at sea situation but I'm always thinking of large society wide shtf scenarios, out of habit.

It would be great if we could all go zen on it and be at peace but not everyone can do that.

As the fishing boat story illustrated, if you need drugs to keep your group together you probably shouldn't be in charge of it.

Thrace

Doc Ruby wrote: »

As the fishing boat story illustrated, if you need drugs to keep your group together you probably shouldn't be in charge of it.

Tell that to Pablo Escobar http://latinamericanhistory.about.com/od/20thcenturylatinamerica/a/bioescobar.htm

Key word in context is 'drugs' in the 'medicinal' sense not the saturday night sense. Everybody should be stocked up on various medicines. As for what medicines are necessary- thats somewhat open for debate.

Doc Ruby

Thrace wrote: »

Tell that to Pablo Escobar http://latinamericanhistory.about.com/od/20thcenturylatinamerica/a/bioescobar.htm

Key word in context is 'drugs' in the 'medicinal' sense not the saturday night sense. Everybody should be stocked up on various medicines. As for what medicines are necessary- thats somewhat open for debate.

I understand what you mean, but narcotics or painkillers shouldn't be used for anything except chronic debilitating pain. There are many other methods to deal with depression in these situations - for example the sailors in the raft that survived maintained discipline and took control of the situation, gave themselves a sense of purpose. Doping someone up because they aren't dealing with things well isn't going to improve their survival chances.

Thrace

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Doping someone up because they aren't dealing with things well isn't going to improve their survival chances.

maybe i'm listening to the HSE too much.

baords dyslexic

This might have some relevance in the "drug" debate. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17516230 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dvw6y - OxyContin abuse hits Canada First Nations communities.

Edit>The "fix"? http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/new+pill+new+rules+coming+to+combat+oxycontin+abuse/6442583766/story.html

Doc Ruby

Thrace wrote: »

maybe i'm listening to the HSE too much.

They should commit half the yokes working in the HSE tbh.

If someone isn't handling things well and you dope them for that reason, before too long you'll have the exact same individual except coming down, and that's a whole lot worse because you've added chemicals to the mix. This creates a dependency situation and worse, you've wasted valuable medicines that could have been used to deal with chronic pain.

Pain is there for a damn good reason, its saying Thrace buddy, you've a problem over here and you need to get on that. If the pain gets too extreme however its no longer serving a purpose and is instead interfering with your chances of survival. Thats the point at which one considers painkillers.

Anything that interferes with your ability to perceive and respond to reality, whether that's alcohol or morphine or whatever is a serious survival hazard and should only be taken in extremities. There's no social stand here or "the man" keeping us down, these are the simple facts.

krissovo

Thrace wrote: »

I think theres a certain logic to it. I'd rather medicate a group member than lose them- at least long enough to establish a new routine and let them adjust to the shock. Obviously, that would be no good in a dinghy at sea situation but I'm always thinking of large society wide shtf scenarios, out of habit.

It would be great if we could all go zen on it and be at peace but not everyone can do that.

No way to meds or stimulants, worst thing you can do!

The best thing for someone not coping is to remove them from the immediate situation, relax for 10 mins by having a brew and a chat about the current situation (positive) and more often than not the will come around. Its also the best treatment for battle shock.

Nothing worse than someone under the influence in your group and also you are only delaying the point when they do really crack up.

bonniebede

St johns wort in the herb garden as a replacement for depression meds could be a good idea(*****in the event of no access to modern medicine and a doctor, of course, not now when you can go to a doctor if you need help with depression****). You can buy the plant in ireland, but the tablets made from it are banned, because they can kill you if taken at the same time as prescribed anti depression meds.

Doc Ruby

krissovo wrote: »

The best thing for someone not coping is to remove them from the immediate situation, relax for 10 mins by having a brew and a chat about the current situation (positive) and more often than not the will come around. Its also the best treatment for battle shock.

It also helps to give them tasks to complete, a little routine, discipline, and positive reinforcement. Doesn't matter how small the success, its still a success. Mid to long term goals are also of great value.

Tabnabs

bonniebede wrote: »

St johns wort in the herb garden as a replacement for depression meds could be a good idea(*****in the event of no access to modern medicine and a doctor, of course, not now when you can go to a doctor if you need help with depression****). You can buy the plant in ireland, but the tablets made from it are banned, because they can kill you if taken at the same time as prescribed anti depression meds.

And this, folks, is why "medical advice" should not be given or heeded on the net.

SJW is not banned, it's prescription only. The unlicensed importation of SJW is illegal however. The advice that SJW can lead to your death if taken with other meds should also be confirmed by a qualified medical practitioner (GP etc.).

An excellent thread here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055783478

Thrace

Tabnabs wrote: »

And this, folks, is why "medical advice" should not be given or heeded on the net.

SJW is not banned, it's prescription only.

If it wasnt banned anyone would be able to buy it freely. Heroin and cocaine are 'banned' and but still available in medical practice. I'm sure thats what BB meant.

Tabnabs

No medication can be bought freely if it is prescription only. What was made illegal was the over the counter selling of the product.

bonniebede

Tabnabs wrote: »

And this, folks, is why "medical advice" should not be given or heeded on the net.

SJW is not banned, it's prescription only. The unlicensed importation of SJW is illegal however. The advice that SJW can lead to your death if taken with other meds should also be confirmed by a qualified medical practitioner (GP etc.).

An excellent thread here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055783478

Pardon me for being imprecise.:o

By banned, I meant, as was noted, not legal for sale over the counter in the way it is in the Uk and elsewhere; for example in health food shops and pharmacies.

In theory anything, even unlicensed products are available on prescription.

However there is, as far as I know, no licensed product containing St John's Wort or an extract of it licensed for presciption by the Irish Medicines Board, so it is unlikely that you would find it available on prescription either.

From the Irish Medicines Board: http://www.imb.ie/images/uploaded/documents/feb%2000.pdf

Herbal Medicines (St. John’s wort/Hypericum
perforatum)

Following a recommendation from the Irish Medicines
Board (IMB), the herbal medicine St. John’s wort
(Hypericum perforatum) has recently been made subject to
prescription control. The background to the IMB
recommendation is as follows:
1) St. John’s wort has been promoted for the treatment
of depression and symptoms suggestive of
depressive illness. The mechanism of action of the
postulated antidepressant effects is unclear.
Depression can be a serious medical condition,
therefore, self-diagnosis and self-treatment is
considered inappropriate and raises safety concerns.
2) St John’s wort has been reported to induce the
metabolism of common prescription medications1,2

such as antidepressants, the oral contraceptive pill,
warfarin, theophylline, digoxin, , indinavir2,
cyclosporin2, anaesthetic agents2 and may also
interfere with the action of non-prescription
medications. The net effect of induction of
metabolism is a reduction in the plasma
concentrations and reduced clinical efficacy. In
addition, concomitant use of St. John’s wort and
serotonin reuptake inhibitors has resulted in
symptoms characteristic of central serotonergic
syndrome.
3) St. John's wort has been claimed to be without sideeffects.
However, it is known to cause
photosensitivity, gastro-intestinal disturbances,
fatigue and nervousness.
4) St. John’s wort is a medicine and not a food
supplement as has been suggested in media reports.
Under existing Irish legislation the IMB is
responsible for the regulation of all medicinal
products.
The IMB considers that regulation is necessary to ensure
the safe and appropriate use of this herbal medicine. At
present, there is no licensed formulation of St. John’s
wort available on the Irish market, therefore, no
recommendations can be made with respect to quality,
safety or efficacy.
Herbal remedies and complementary medicines are
widely used despite a lack of information about their
pharmacology, pharmacokinetics and drug
interactions. Prescribers and pharmacists are
advised to question their patients about the use
of herbal medicines such as St. John’s wort. Because of
the potential for serious interactions outlined should not
be taken with any other medication.

1. Lancet 1999; 354: 1362, 2014-2016.

2. Lancet 2000; 355: 134-138, 547-549.

Thanks for the reference to the other thread, from it I would note the following:

There is a tendency for people to think 'natural' or 'herbal' products are somehow magically immune from producing unpleasant or dangerous side effects, or interactions with prescription drugs which could be dangerous.

For me it is logical to think in the following way:
If something works it is because it contains some chemical compund which does something. So the more something works the more important it is to make sure you know:

• What it does, how it achieves its effects
• what other, unintended side effects it has
• what dosages are safe, and for who
• what drug interactions there are
• how the substance is produced, and if the active ingredients are measured so that the dosage is accurate

and so on. This I think is common sense, not medical advice.

For some studies of SJW I append the following for those interested.

<LI id=cite_note-pmid17666455-40>

^ Leuner K, Kazanski V, Müller M, Essin K, Henke B, Gollasch M, Harteneck C, Müller WE (December 2007). "Hyperforin—a key constituent of St. John's wort specifically activates TRPC6 channels". FASEB J. 21 (14): 4101–11. doi:10.1096/fj.07-8110com. PMID 17666455. <LI id=cite_note-pmid9342774-41>^ Nahrstedt A, Butterweck V (September 1997). "Biologically active and other chemical constituents of the herb of Hypericum perforatum L". Pharmacopsychiatry 30 Suppl 2: 129–34. doi:10.1055/s-2007-979533. PMID 9342774. <LI id=cite_note-pmid12775192-42>^ a b Butterweck V (2003). "Mechanism of action of St John's wort in depression : what is known?". CNS Drugs 17 (8): 539–62. doi:10.2165/00023210-200317080-00001. PMID 12775192. http://content.wkhealth.com/linkback/openurl?issn=1172-7047&volume=17&issue=8&spage=539.
[*]^ Müller WE (February 2003). "Current St John's wort research from mode of action to clinical efficacy". Pharmacol. Res. 47 (2): 101–9. doi:10.1016/S1043-6618(02)00266-9. PMID 12543057. http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1043661802002669.
With respect to safety of use for St Johns Wort, I would direct your attention to the following:

J Psychopharmacol. 2004 Jun;18(2):262-76.
Pharmacokinetic interactions of drugs with St John's wort.

Zhou S, Chan E, Pan SQ, Huang M, Lee EJ.
Source

Department of Pharmacy, Faculty of Science, National University of Singapore. phazsf@nus.edu.sg

Abstract

There is a worldwide increasing use of herbs which are often administered in combination with therapeutic drugs, raising the potential for herb-drug interactions. St John's wort (Hypericum perforatum) is one of the most commonly used herbal antidepressants. A literature search was performed using Medline (via Pubmed), Biological Abstracts, Cochrane Library, AMED, PsycINFO and Embase (all from their inception to September 2003) to identify known drug interaction with St John's wort. The available data indicate that St John's wort is a potent inducer of CYP 3A4 and P-glycoprotein (PgP), although it may inhibit or induce other CYPs, depending on the dose, route and duration of administration. Data from human studies and case reports indicate that St John's wort decreased the blood concentrations of amitriptyline, cyclosporine, digoxin, fexofenadine, indinavir, methadone, midazolam, nevirapine, phenprocoumon, simvastatin, tacrolimus, theophylline and warfarin, whereas it did not alter the pharmacokinetics of carbamazepine, dextromethorphan, mycophenolic acid and pravastatin. St John's wort decreased the plasma concentration of the active metabolite SN-38 in cancer patients receiving irinotecan treatment. St John's wort did not alter the pharmacokinetics of tolbutamide, but increased the incidence of hypoglycaemia. Several cases have been reported that St John's wort decreased cyclosporine blood concentration leading to organ rejection. St John's wort caused breakthrough bleeding and unplanned pregnancies when used concomitantly with oral contraceptives. It also caused serotonin syndrome when coadministered with selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (e.g. sertaline and paroxetine). Both pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic components may play a role in these interactions. Because the potential interaction of St John's wort with other drugs is a major safety concern, additional systematic research on herb-drug interactions and appropriate regulation in herbal safety and efficacy is needed.

---

With respect to St John's Wort, and serious side effects, apart from the serious concerns raised above, I would note that my main concern is for people who combine SJW with prescribed anti depression medications. There are two types of anti depresion meds commonly prescribed which both work on the amount of serotonin floating around your system, MAOI's and SSRI's. Any good GP will on prescribing one or other of these will, as mine did, make it very clear that they cannot both be taken at the same time. One must be carefully weaned of one before starting on the other sort. I don't over this as medical advice, it's just the sort of general knowledge anyone would have after reading the patient information leaflet of these meds and talking to their GP.
The main problem I see is that people who have been prescribed anti depression meds of the SSRI type may take St John's wort in addition, thinking that they are taking something herbal and safe, and of addtional benefit in their fight against depression. (I know some people who did this.) Research so far indicates that the active ingredient in SJW acts somewhat like an MAOI, hence there is potential for a drug interaction, which was not intended and can have serious complications.

As TABNABs rightly pointed out, you should always talk to your own medical practitioner, not forgetting to mention what herbal remedies you might be taking which could affect any presciption you are being given.

---

Clearly , in a very short post, it was not my intention to either give medical advice or scare anyone.

What I wish to say is comes simply from my experiences of having suffered from, and been successfully treated for depression.

First - depression is linked to self harm and suicide. This is a major cause of death in Ireland. Depression should always be taken seriouly. If you or someone you know suffers from depression, please get help. In my experience, my GP was extremely helpful. One of the things you might feel is that nothing can help, and nobody cares, in my experience when you can finally start to tell people how you feel, they are very supportive.

You can even talk to someone in total confidence, by ringing the Samaritans at 1850 60 90 90, or check them out online or by email.

Though it did not feel like it at the time, in my experience, once I started working on it, depression is something which can and did pass, much to my relief.

Many things helped me, at very stages in working through this illness.
I had support from my GP and some medications. I had an excellent counsellor who helped me with various issues including childhood bereavement.
I read and used various self-help material, including cognitive behavioral material like the 'Feeling good handbook'. Doing this helped me to return to a place where I knew I was taking responsibility for my own health, and making a positive contribution to getting better.
I also tried to improve my eating. I took exercise and got plenty of sunshine.(My interest in survival and bushcraft stems from this time in my life).
I prayed.I sang. I accepted support from family and friends.

I would never be able to say, this or that worked... I think all of the above helped in one way or another.

I know this is a bit off topic for this forum, but I just want to encourage anyone who might stray onto the site to take positive action in the face of depression.:)

Watch Ryder

This guy really sets a benchmark:

He is the icon of survival in harsh conditions. A true son of survival!

In 1823, Glass was part of an expedition heading up the Grand River, in South Dakota, to Fort Henry on the Yellowstone River. He was out hunting game, alone, when he surprised a female grizzly bear with her cubs. The bear attacked him and although he was able to kill the animal with his knife, Glass was left badly mauled and unable to walk. The leader of the expedition, Andrew Henry, was convinced that Glass would not survive and left group members Jim Bridger and John Fitzgerald to stay with him so they could bury him when he died. The rest of the party moved on.

Bridger and Fitzgerald later joined up with Henry and reported that Glass had died but they weren't able to bury him because they had been under attack by Indians and had to flee with Glass's rifle, knife and other gear. As it turned out Hugh's death was greatly exaggerated.

Upon regaining consciousness, Glass found himself alone with a broken leg, severe festering wounds on his back exposing his ribs, without any weapons, and unable to stand up. The nearest settlement to him was Fort Kiowa on the Missouri River, some 200 miles away. He set his own broken leg, covered himself with the bear hide that had been placed over him, and began crawling. The pain of movement was great but his will to live was even greater. At one point, to prevent gangrene, he laid his back over a rotting log so that the maggots in the wood could eat the dead flesh from his wounds. He crawled south and it took him six weeks to reach the Cheyenne River. To survive, he ate mostly berries and roots and, at one point, managed to chase wolves from a dead bison calf so he could eat the meat.

When he reached the river, Glass managed to assemble a crude raft and float downstream. He encountered some friendly natives along the way who sewed a bear skin to his back to protect his wounds. When he reached Fort Kiowa, he was in bad shape but eventually healed from his ordeal.

Doc Ruby

O_O

dan dan

This is a great subject. It does however show a need for,a school or academy for people interested in survival. It would be an invaluable course to do.
It would also need to be a flexible corriculem. designed to adapt its own teaching ,as this thread shows.

A Bible for survivors needs to be compiled ,using the collection of books on the subject . to collect together the collective wisdom of all publications. A handbook for the desperate,which brings some order to the chaotic moment.