Shocking sermon at funeral

Chickus

Hi, I am not sure whether this is the right forum for this.
I attended a funeral today of a 16 year old child who died in very tragic circumstances.
The deceased was a criminal and died while carrying out a crime.
The scenes at funeral mass were very distressing and the priest came on to do his sermon..normally it is a nice,sensitive reflection of the life of the person who died, but this priest decided to go down the route of telling us if the childs crimes and the sins he committed, He went into detail about how other people are suffering as a result of his crimes etc...There was not one nice thing said about that child and it broke my heart to here the priest saying to the congregation that the childs life is now in hands of god and god will determine his fate at the gates of heaven etc.
I know the child has been in trouble since 12 but he wasnt a criminal his whole life, I just never heard the likes of this sermon from a catholic priest at a funeral, so cynical and insensitive. Is this the norm when the deceased is a criminal? I really am thinking about writing a letter of complaint to the bishop about this.
Has anybody sen anything like this before at a funeral?

Run_to_da_hills

The priest should have been more compassionate particularly with family members and friends present and should have left the judging up to God.

noddyone2

Why?

lmaopml

Chickus wrote: »

Hi, I am not sure whether this is the right forum for this.
I attended a funeral today of a 16 year old child who died in very tragic circumstances.
The deceased was a criminal and died while carrying out a crime.
The scenes at funeral mass were very distressing and the priest came on to do his sermon..normally it is a nice,sensitive reflection of the life of the person who died, but this priest decided to go down the route of telling us if the childs crimes and the sins he committed, He went into detail about how other people are suffering as a result of his crimes etc...There was not one nice thing said about that child and it broke my heart to here the priest saying to the congregation that the childs life is now in hands of god and god will determine his fate at the gates of heaven etc.
I know the child has been in trouble since 12 but he wasnt a criminal his whole life, I just never heard the likes of this sermon from a catholic priest at a funeral, so cynical and insensitive. Is this the norm when the deceased is a criminal? I really am thinking about writing a letter of complaint to the bishop about this.
Has anybody sen anything like this before at a funeral?

At this moment my Mum is living in fear of her life from some teens who have decided that her long backyard and side entrance comprises a shortcut to another field where they apparently think that it's ok to find another shortcut, and it's ok to terrorise the old folk who live there -

Just the other day the same teens kicked a pregnant woman because she went out to ask them to take it easy and leave her wheely bin, while taking their shortcut - she is in hospital now, and the community is hoping and praying that she will be ok and her child.


You may wonder at the Priest saying things about living and choices etc. and not really understand the point of his sermon, the point is that every bad choice has repercussions, and has a ripple effect.

Run_to_da_hills

noddyone2 wrote: »

Why?

There was enough about it in the media without the priest having to go on about it.

lmaopml

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There was enough in the media about it without the priest having to go on about it.

I don't know anything particular about this case, now could I? It could be one of many really - blaming the 'Priest' is kind of defeating the purpose no?

Perhaps everything would be nice if he was given a spoon fed homily? That's not the way it works.

mikemac1

Hadn't heard of this case at all but wasn't hard to find in google

He was a bad 'un, that's some realy nasty business he was involved in


As for this case, sure wasn't he a grand fellow and well liked in the parish is untrue and achieves nothing but it's so unusual to hear any different it's easy to see how it struck you OP

Leave it be, the bishop is not going to do anything here

jimmycrackcorm

Aren't priests sermons supposed to be about keeping people on the straight and narrow? So surely what he said is within the bounds of his job.

Victor

Sometimes people need to be told it like it is, especially if the family are unrepentant.

JimiTime

I think many churches are spiritually irrelevant public service places for weddings, baptisms, funerals etc. I would have gone one further and refused to conduct the funeral. Was he a part of the congregation? Unlikely. God will ultimately judge him, but IMO, people who are not members of a congregation have no business using their services. If a priest/pastor DOES grant a funeral etc, then I would be happier that he was truthful in his sermon rather than just pandering to dishonest sentimentality.

In the words of Martin Luther King: "If the church does not recapture its prophetic zeal, it will become an irrelevant social club"

Now he was talking about the ACTUAL church;), I.E. the body of Christ, but his words here apply. The RCC, in this country anyway, is just a cultural thing for many if not most. If I was an RC, I'd rather see my church become unpopular for having the courage to stand up for itself, rather than pandering to the masses (pun intended).

marty1985

I think the OP's shock is indicative of the secularisation of funerals. One would like to use the occasion to celebrate the deceased's human aspects, play a pop song he or she would've liked, maybe have some applause or share a joke about something - anything as long as we expunge any reference to human failings and what the church teaches is the certainty of divine judgement. If only those priests would not interfere and ruin the day with their backward religion. The mere mention of divine judgement is now seen as inappropriate at a funeral? Really?

tommy2bad

But neither option is the purpose of a funeral. A funeral is the offering of a soul to Gods mercy, not an occasion for celebrating a life or condemning the departed.
"Lord have mercy on the soul of this poor sinner."

Cardinal Richelieu

It makes a change, usually its just an insert name here sermon because more than likely the local priest these days hasn't a clue about the person in the coffin.

gimmebroadband

The priest imho didn't codemn the deceased person, as his fate is known only to our Merciful Saviour. The priest was right to point out that this young person's lifestyle choice was wrong, which eventually contributed to his untimely death.

May God have mercy on his soul!

Chickus

I dont know I just thought that a funeral was not the time or place to be giving a lecture about the wrongs he did...I dont mean he had to gloss over his wrongs, a brief mention would be fine..but his mother and siblings are decent people that have had very very hard times, the mother was by the coffin all throughout, wailing and asking god to please forgive her son and i feel that this was not the time to be hearing a lecture from the priest..thats all..

Onesimus

Chickus wrote: »

I dont know I just thought that a funeral was not the time or place to be giving a lecture about the wrongs he did...I dont mean he had to gloss over his wrongs, a brief mention would be fine..but his mother and siblings are decent people that have had very very hard times, the mother was by the coffin all throughout, wailing and asking god to please forgive her son and i feel that this was not the time to be hearing a lecture from the priest..thats all..

Look. The priest could have said: ''He was a great guy his whole life and his mother and father looked after him well. I have no doubt he is up there on cloud nine having a great time''.

But its a lie, its not true, its a greater insult to the congregation and to God to cover up the facts about this young mans life and how it turned out just so everyone can ''feel good''. If anything the priest was trying to incite people to pray for his soul. Not delude them into thinking that he is in heaven ( and he may well be God is his only judge ) and that everything is rosey so that they end up not bothering to pray for him.

What this young man needs is prayers right now. And remember, no matter how hard the sinner, God always gives them a way out. His name was Bernard Barney Mc Donagh right? I will pray hard for him and his family because this is what he and they need. Prayer.

There were two theives on the cross beside Jesus, one repented and one did not repent, there is no knowing what Bernard said in his last moments in that crash, or when he faced God. But do pray for his soul and get masses said for him. I'll do that today.

God bless
Onesimus

DEFTLEFTHAND

I remember reading that New York mob boss John Gotti was denied a funeral Mass by the church, in my view they had no right to do this, God was to one to judge him not us. This young man was no John Gotti, at 16 he may very well not have fully realised the error of his ways and could have easily turned his life around, he should have had ample time to do so. This Priest should not have compounded the family's misery by delving into his criminal life during sermon, only the good things should have been focused on, this is a child we're talking about here and no matter he did in life he didn't deserve to have it end at 16.

Larianne

I don't know the back story to this, but could it be possible that the parents asked the priest to be harsh as a deterrent to other young people in the community?

Triangla

Sounds like priest stated the cold hard facts.

Just glad the kid didn't kill anyone before departing. Seems like a couple had a close call in his latest escapade.

http://www.herald.ie/news/taxi-hijacker-16-killed-in-crash-was-raid-suspect-3065826.html

laoch na mona

to think the family paid the priest and he did that

qrrgprgua

Victor wrote: »

Sometimes people need to be told it like it is, especially if the family are unrepentant.

The Family organised the Funeral and the boys friends were there.

What the priest did was 100% right. It was an opportunity to teach a lesson. So that other young men did not follow the boys example

If the family did not want to hear the Churchs view.. then they didn't need to organise a funeral in a Church.

Halo Kitty

I feel the priest should have said nothing at all. the pulpit is not the place to issue judgement on a person, Be it good bad or indifferent...When did we start speaking ill of the dead i ask myself,...Let he without sin cast the first stone somes to my mind...The church should keep this in mind also....

PDN

Halo Kitty wrote: »

I feel the priest should have said nothing at all. the pulpit is not the place to issue judgement on a person, Be it good bad or indifferent...When did we start speaking ill of the dead i ask myself,...Let he without sin cast the first stone somes to my mind...The church should keep this in mind also....

Why not speak ill of the dead? I don't understand the mindset that thinks that because someone dies then we've got to pretend they were really a saint. It's refreshing that a priest told the truth instead of waffling at the funeral.

Halo Kitty

If this child was so evil, why allow a service in the church in the first place, Many people have been refused church service for so called lesser reason's, and i still feel this priest should not have preformed this service , and what comfort has he to offer any member of this family,
They will be enough said in the media about this boy,

MagicMarker

lmaopml wrote: »

At this moment my Mum is living in fear of her life from some teens who have decided that her long backyard and side entrance comprises a shortcut to another field where they apparently think that it's ok to find another shortcut, and it's ok to terrorise the old folk who live there -

Just the other day the same teens kicked a pregnant woman because she went out to ask them to take it easy and leave her wheely bin, while taking their shortcut - she is in hospital now, and the community is hoping and praying that she will be ok and her child.


You may wonder at the Priest saying things about living and choices etc. and not really understand the point of his sermon, the point is that every bad choice has repercussions, and has a ripple effect.

Every choice has it's repercussions, that's why the kid's dead. So what's the use in punishing his family? They're not the ones who committed the crimes.

HamletOrHecuba

Halo Kitty wrote: »

If this child was so evil, why allow a service in the church in the first place, Many people have been refused church service for so called lesser reason's, and i still feel this priest should not have preformed this service , and what comfort has he to offer any member of this family,
They will be enough said in the media about this boy,

I cant think of one example in Ireland in recent times of anyone being refused a funeral who has been Baptized, or even before.

Personally I have mixed feelings on this- my first reaction was one of relief because usually in Ireland funeral sermons are like beatification ceremonies and at the very least its automatically presumed that the soul is in Heaven. However maybe the Priest did go to far in the opposite direction here?

MajorMax

I would like to applaud the Priest's courage. It is no small thing to stand in a church full of people who's first instinctive reaction to criticism is usually violent

Dr Turk Turkelton

MajorMax wrote: »

I would like to applaud the Priest's courage. It is no small thing to stand in a church full of people who's first instinctive reaction to criticism is usually violent

Extremely well said if anyone wants to offer prayers perhaps it should be to the many victims this scumbag has terrorized over the years.

MagicMarker

Cuchulainn1. wrote: »

Extremely well said if anyone wants to offer prayers perhaps it should be to the many victims this scumbag has terrorized over the years.

Exactly what Jesus would have said, I'm sure.

HamletOrHecuba

Ive come across an instance where many people took offense at a Priest preaching about purgatory at the funeral of an elderly woman because that was something she had personally requested- family members said that he should not have gone along with her wishes.

Rezident

Reading today about the three scumbags who kicked a Polish guy to death on his way into work (workmates did not recognise the body, he had brain tissue protruding from his nose) and they did it "for a buzz", anything, no matter how insensitive it is, that might deter even just one future scumbag from doing something similar is worth it, painful and socially awkward as it may be. A funeral is one situation where the person's friends and associates might actually listen and take heed.

lmaopml

MagicMarker wrote: »

Every choice has it's repercussions, that's why the kid's dead. So what's the use in punishing his family? They're not the ones who committed the crimes.

Magic, I understand why you feel the way you do, and that's ok. I doubt sincerely the Priest's intention was to punish the family - if anything they already are left in a bad way, and with questions, regrets, and a whole mix of emotions. The Priest is not saying anything they don't already know -

- The truth is that this is a current problem around the country - the lad is one of many...and the sad truth is that very many in his community, while they may feel sad for his family will also feel 'relief' - What a terrible thing that is?


The Priest imo, was quite right to highlight that the message and positive thing that could come from the death of this young person, is very sadly that there are quite possibly others who may turn from that path of destruction when they see the devastation that the lad left in his wake -

No doubt there were many contributing factors to make him turn out the way he did, and indeed that contributed to him ending his own life in such a tragic way.

May he rest in Peace.

DonegalMan

Chickus wrote: »

I know the child has been in trouble since 12 but he wasnt a criminal his whole life, I just never heard the likes of this sermon from a catholic priest at a funeral, so cynical and insensitive.

How is the truth "cynical"?

As far as "insensitive" goes, what he said may well have been with the approval of the family, see my next point.

Chickus wrote: »

Has anybody sen anything like this before at a funeral?

Yes, I saw something similar at the funeral of a young man who committed suicide and the family asked the priest to speak very bluntly about the selfish evil of suicide and what it does to those left behind, they were aware that many of their son's friends would be at the funeral and the priest's words might just lead to second thoughts by any of them contemplating the same thing.

I'd guess that the same applied here - not necessarily with the family approval - where the priest hoped to get through to some of the deceased's friends who might be disposed towards the same criminal life.