(Schengen) Visa requirement for non-EEA spouse of Irish citizen

nukin_futs

Hello,

My wife is Chinese and I am Irish. We are planning to travel to Spain for a holiday and I am trying to determine the visa requirements.
Notionally, under EU law, I believe she does not require a visa to travel to EU countries, provided we are travelling together (right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within territory of the Member States). In practice, rather than try to argue this at border controls, it's probably easier to fill in all the paperwork and get a stamp on her passport.

Has anyone been in this situation and what was your experience?
Should the stamp/visa be (almost) automatically granted and free?
How long has it taken to get the application processed?

Thanks for any advice/comments.

bittihuduga

call spanish embassy and get an appointment for visa application
submit copy of your irish passport, marriage certificate along with her application
visa is free and process is simple as that.

Kotek Besar

^^ that's right.

If you turn up at the Spanish border with only your passports and marriage cert you cannot, save for very rare and limited circumstances, be turned away. The problem really is boarding the plane sans visa. The airlines usually insist on one.

So, as said, Schengen visa from the Spanish embassy in Dublin is free and must be issued as soon as possible.

juke

It's my understanding that as Ireland is not a signatory to the Schengen Treaty - to enter the Shengen country - your wife first need a visa for one participating country - that visa then enables your wife to travel unhindered in other participating countries for the duration of that visa.

So as said above - you need to apply to the Spanish embassy here.

Kotek Besar

juke wrote: »

It's my understanding that as Ireland is not a signatory to the Schengen Treaty - to enter the Shengen country - your wife first need a visa for one participating country - that visa then enables your wife to travel unhindered in other participating countries for the duration of that visa.

Correct under normal circumstances, but as the spouse of an EU national the OP's wife has rights of exemption of the requirement to hold a valid entry visa under EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

martin09

As an earlier post stated - under EU law the person accompanying the EU citizen does not have to have a visa. However, it is more than likely that airport staff will either be ignorant of this or have their own unofficial policy: thus they often refuse permission for the non-EU passenger to board.
You can guess how useless it will be trying to argue your rights at 6.30 am when the plane is about to depart. Sorry, but thats the way it is.

RoseBlossom

What does her GNIB card say? If she has a stamp 4 EUFAM, she does not need a visa, but if she has a different stamp then she needs a visa.

From the Spanish Embassy's website:

C. FAMILY MEMBERS OF EU CITIZENS
Family members within the meaning of European law are, irrespective of nationality, the spouse and descendants of these persons dependent on them, as well as the dependent relatives in the ascending line of the person and their spouse.
Only holders of 4EUFam residence card will be exempt of the visa requirement provided they accompany or join the EU-EEA citizen.
If such family members, who accompany or join the EU-EEA citizen, do not hold a 4EUFam residence card, they do require a visa. Such applications will be processed with due priority and free of charge. Documents to be provided:
- Application form
- Passport or Travel Document - Valid for at least three months after the date of expiry of the visa applied for with 2 blank pages.
- 2 recent Photographs
- Irish residence card and re-entry visa to Ireland - Valid for at least three months after the date of expiry of the visa applied for (original and copy)
- Certificate of marriage (original and copy)
- Spouse passport (original and copy)
- Proof they are traveling together or joining the EU spouse.

Monife

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I am in the same predicament now.

Just wondering, OP, how long did it take for the visa to issue? And did you phone the embassy to make an appointment? How soon did the give you an appointment after phoning?

I have seen you need to apply online for an appointment (with a €6 charge) but it won't let me make an appointment because it says there are no more appointments left for this month...

tatli_lokma

Kotek Besar wrote: »

Correct under normal circumstances, but as the spouse of an EU national the OP's wife has rights of exemption of the requirement to hold a valid entry visa under EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

RoseBlossom wrote: »

What does her GNIB card say? If she has a stamp 4 EUFAM, she does not need a visa, but if she has a different stamp then she needs a visa.

From the Spanish Embassy's website:

C. FAMILY MEMBERS OF EU CITIZENS
Family members within the meaning of European law are, irrespective of nationality, the spouse and descendants of these persons dependent on them, as well as the dependent relatives in the ascending line of the person and their spouse.
Only holders of 4EUFam residence card will be exempt of the visa requirement provided they accompany or join the EU-EEA citizen.
If such family members, who accompany or join the EU-EEA citizen, do not hold a 4EUFam residence card, they do require a visa. .

just noticed this thread, As Roseblossom points out, it depends what is on your Irish visa.
Being married to an Irish is not simply enough to avoid a schengen application. This is because Ireland is not a signatory to the Schengen convention. If yoour spouse has a visa labeled Stamp 4 (EU Fam) then they don't need a schengen visa, and proof of marriage and travelling with your spouse is enough. HOWEVER! if you are married to an Irish citizen you cannot get an EU Fam status visa! instead you get Stamp 4 (Spouse of Irish national) visa. I know it seems daft, as being Irish you are therefore EU, however schengen countries do not recognise this. Your visa must say EU family otherwise you must get a visa. I have argued this point with several embassies now (German, Maltese, French) and they do not recognise the status of the applicant as married to EEA citizen because it does not specify it on the visa - the fact Ireland is (for the moment) in the EU and therefore they are the spouse of an EEA citizen is not even acknowledged!

And I have heard of people being refused at the border, marriage cert and all. So it is not worth the risk.

cagefactor

If she doesnt have a Visa she'll be refused boarding by airlines. Simple as that so I'm very sceptical about anyone saying here she doesn't need a visa according to the law. The law is one thing, airlines policy is completely different and she'll be denied at checkin.

tatli_lokma

cagefactor wrote: »

If she doesnt have a Visa she'll be refused boarding by airlines. Simple as that so I'm very sceptical about anyone saying here she doesn't need a visa according to the law. The law is one thing, airlines policy is completely different and she'll be denied at checkin.

your 4EUFam residence visa is your visa to travel. So if you have this there should be no issue boarding a flight or at the boarder of a Schengen country. However if you hold a different stamp - eg stamp 4 spouse of irish national you will need a visa to board the flight and at the boarder.

Kotek Besar

Little Ted wrote: »

your 4EUFam residence visa is your visa to travel. So if you have this there should be no issue boarding a flight or at the boarder of a Schengen country. However if you hold a different stamp - eg stamp 4 spouse of irish national you will need a visa to board the flight and at the boarder.

You are correct, however as cagefactor said airlines are not usually sufficiently coherent with EU Directive 2004/38/EC to recognise this and allow boarding without a visa.

tatli_lokma

Kotek Besar wrote: »

You are correct, however as cagefactor said airlines are not usually sufficiently coherent with EU Directive 2004/38/EC to recognise this and allow boarding without a visa.

but you DO have a visa! that is the point. And a simple copy of the information from the relevant government websites as back up should be enough. Several friends of mine who have 4EUFam stamps have travelled within the EU with no problems, if they do get asked for a visa they point out their stamp 4EUFam residency, handover copies of the information and that has always been enough. It is really only an issue, if like us, your visa is a spouse visa and thereby you are granted lesser rights than EU citizens, despite being an EU citizen! The only plus side is, if you do need to apply for a schengen visa it is free

Kotek Besar

That is incorrect. A residence card of a family member of a Union citizen (Stamp 4 EUFam endorsed Garda Certificate of Registration in Ireland) is not a visa. Possession of same provides for exemption of the holder to also hold a valid entry visa to third EU states under certain conditions, but that is not the same as itself being a visa.

I agree that it is a good idea for such persons who wish to avail of their right of travel without a visa to carry in their possession a copy of Directive 2004/38/EC to point out Article 5(2) to airline staff, as necessary, and in an ideal world this should be belts and braces. Unfortunately, there have been numerous reports of people being denied boarding, entirely unlawfully, and left devastated that they cannot proceed with their trip. It's good that you also have reports from your friends that are to the contrary - hopefully this is a sign that things are improving, slowly.

Until such time as airline staff are sufficiently educated in this regard, the safest option is to obtain a valid entry visa for the intended country. It's free and must be issued on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

tatli_lokma

Kotek Besar wrote: »

That is incorrect. A residence card of a family member of a Union citizen (Stamp 4 EUFam endorsed Garda Certificate of Registration in Ireland) is not a visa. Possession of same provides for exemption of the holder to also hold a valid entry visa to third EU states under certain conditions, but that is not the same as itself being a visa.

I agree that it is a good idea for such persons who wish to avail of their right of travel without a visa to carry in their possession a copy of Directive 2004/38/EC to point out Article 5(2) to airline staff, as necessary, and in an ideal world this should be belts and braces. Unfortunately, there have been numerous reports of people being denied boarding, entirely unlawfully, and left devastated that they cannot proceed with their trip. It's good that you also have reports from your friends that are to the contrary - hopefully this is a sign that things are improving, slowly.

Until such time as airline staff are sufficiently educated in this regard, the safest option is to obtain a valid entry visa for the intended country. It's free and must be issued on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

you are correct - my explanation was not clear, due to the fact that in normal language most people refer to their residency permit and exemption as their 'visa'. Even on the INIS website its not clear, because when you go through some of the links 'do I need a visa' you then get info on spousal permits etc and even the staff in INIS and the gardai refer to many residence permits as 'visa's - I think think this just adds to the confusion.

Kotek Besar

Little Ted wrote: »

you are correct - my explanation was not clear, due to the fact that in normal language most people refer to their residency permit and exemption as their 'visa'. Even on the INIS website its not clear, because when you go through some of the links 'do I need a visa' you then get info on spousal permits etc and even the staff in INIS and the gardai refer to many residence permits as 'visa's - I think think this just adds to the confusion.

Indeed it does. Another example is that the Departement of Justice and its sub-sections continually refer to the residence card of a family member of a Union citizen, or the Stamp 4 EUFam GNIB card, as a "residence permit". This is an incorrect, inappropriate and, crucially, unlawful term since the family member of an EEA or Swiss national does not require permission of any kind to reside in Ireland in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC and transposing legislation.

simonsez

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/593407-schengen-visa-for-wife-of-eu-national/page-7#entry6232556

THIS MIGHT HELP

SS

nukin_futs wrote: »

Hello,

My wife is Chinese and I am Irish. We are planning to travel to Spain for a holiday and I am trying to determine the visa requirements.
Notionally, under EU law, I believe she does not require a visa to travel to EU countries, provided we are travelling together (right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within territory of the Member States). In practice, rather than try to argue this at border controls, it's probably easier to fill in all the paperwork and get a stamp on her passport.

Has anyone been in this situation and what was your experience?
Should the stamp/visa be (almost) automatically granted and free?
How long has it taken to get the application processed?

Thanks for any advice/comments.

simonsez

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/

tatli_lokma

simonsez wrote: »

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-family/

thanks for the link, but still confirms as previous posts have said - if you are EU national of a Schengen country your spouse won't need a visa, if you are an EU national of a non Schengen country (i.e Ireland) then they will

Your non-EU spouse, (grand)parents or (grand)children do not need to get a visa from the country they are travelling to if:

• the country they are travelling to belongs to the passport-free Schengen area (see list below) and they have a residence permit or visa from another country in that area, or
• they are travelling with you or travelling to join you and have a residence card issued by any EU country (except the country you are a national of).
  
  The residence card should clearly state that the holder is a family member of an EU national.

So according to this - if my husband held a visa for Germany but lives here in Ireland if we want to travel he can do so without visa as Germany is Schengen. But holding a visa from Ireland does not give the same right as it is the country I am a national of. Similarly if the country you are travelling to is a Schengen and your partner has a visa from a Schengen state then no visa is required. Not much use to us poor Irish folk

Cody Pomeray

I just wanted to respond briefly to this thread.

My civil partner is a non EU citizen and we have been so for almost 18 months, all the time living in Ireland.

We are going to Paris later this month. He went to the French embassy and was asked to pay €50 for his travel visa. My understanding is that an official told him that he is not entitled to the usual EU freedom of travel/ spousal visa because of a problem with French recognition of Irish civil partnerships.

Has anyone had any similar experience with civil partners as distinct from marriages? We were really surprised to hear that our civil partnership is not recognized in this way.

chaoclive

Re: France and civil partners

I was informed that my civil partner would not be eligible for an EEA family member entry visa for France either. It's not actually a problem with Irish Civil Partnerships, it's a problem with all civil partnerships as France now has Civil Marriage, so anything less than marriage seems not to be recognized anymore...

I've always found the Dutch and Spanish particularly good implementing European law...why give your mum to the French when you could go to Amsterdam or Barcelona without a visa!

All the hairy chest...

Geets

Hey All,

Sorry for bumping this thread.

Does anyone know how long it can take to actually get the visa to Spain after the interview takes place.

We want to book flights but are unsure if it can takes weeks or days.

Thanks.

Peej255

I am Irish and my wife is Indian, she has Stamp 4 for two years, but not Stamp 4 EUFam.
We would like to be able to visit places in mainland Europe a bit over the next few years.
What's the best way to go about this?
Should she just apply for a visa for the first place that we want to go to? Or is there a place that is more likely to give her the visa for the full two years to save ourselves having to apply whenever we want to go somewhere. We will always be travelling together but are a bit iffy about just showing up for flights with just passports and marriage cert.

thanks

Pixied

Hi

As far as I know after 3 years married to an Irish national your wife should be able to apply for Irish citizenship. Then she would not require any visa to travel to Europe.

Usually it is 5 years before you can apply for citizenship, but an exemption can be made if married for 3 years to an Irish citizen ( again as far as I know).

Check the: http://www.inis.gov.ie

Good luck!

Peej255

I should say, we only just got married. And she has been working her for three years already, so she'll reach the 5 year mark from working here before she reaches the 3 year mark from being married to me. But we want to be able to visit Europe easily before she becomes a citizen.

FURET

Your wife must be granted a Schengen visa unless she's a security risk, and, when applying, she must be given preferential treatment over other non-EEA applicants. In addition she does not need to pay any fee for Schengen visas going forward. The right to free movement applies to non-EEA spouses of EEA citizens unless they are travelling solo.

Search google for "EU visa guidebook".

Peej255

Thanks.
But if we say apply for a visa to go for France for two weeks, they'll probably just give a visa for the minimum amount, a month or 3 or whatever. And she could use that for other schengen countries. But is there anyway to get a longer one? for 1 year or more?

FURET

Peej255 wrote: »

Thanks.
But if we say apply for a visa to go for France for two weeks, they'll probably just give a visa for the minimum amount, a month or 3 or whatever. And she could use that for other schengen countries. But is there anyway to get a longer one? for 1 year or more?

Not that I know of unless you can demonstrate a need for one, such as a regular need to travel to those countries. My wife and I are in a relatively similar situation as my wife is Filipino. The good news is, as I said, your wife derives EU rights from being married to you. She must always be granted a visa. Here is an excellent service where you can get expert advice directly from the European Commission: https://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/

Peej255

Thanks. I've sent them a question.
I think that you're right and there probably is no way to get anything more than the month 3 schengen visa.

Riat

Hi,

I got 4EUFAM stamp and I like to know which countries we can travel without visa,I want to travel to Italy it is possible to travel without visa,I travel France without visa and I don't know about Italy,please help me regarding this,do you know any website it says no visa required for Italy,hope to hear from you all.

Thanks a million

Kotek Besar

Riat wrote: »

Hi,

I got 4EUFAM stamp and I like to know which countries we can travel without visa,I want to travel to Italy it is possible to travel without visa,I travel France without visa and I don't know about Italy,please help me regarding this,do you know any website it says no visa required for Italy,hope to hear from you all.

Thanks a million

All EU member states, provided you are travelling in the company of, or to join, your EU national family member.

Monife

Kotek Besar wrote: »

All EU member states, provided you are travelling in the company of, or to join, your EU national family member.

You need a visa for Ireland and the UK. All Schengen countries allow free EU family member travel.

Riat

Thanks Monife

veetwin

Monife wrote: »

You need a visa for Ireland and the UK. All Schengen countries allow free EU family member travel.

Riat please ignore this post as it is incorrect.

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/visa_requirements_for_entering_ireland.html



Who else can land in Ireland without a visa?
You do not need a visa to land in Ireland if:

You hold a valid travel document issued by one of the following countries in accordance with Article 28 of the Geneva Convention: Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden, or Switzerland.
You hold either a valid residence card 4 EU FAM or a valid permanent residence card 4 EU FAM issued by the Garda National Immigration Bureau under the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 (SI 656 of 2006).
You are a family member of an EU citizen and you hold a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as referred to in article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (pdf).

Monife

veetwin wrote: »

Riat please ignore this post as it is incorrect.

From http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/coming_to_live_in_ireland/visa_requirements_for_entering_ireland.html



Who else can land in Ireland without a visa?
You do not need a visa to land in Ireland if:

You hold a valid travel document issued by one of the following countries in accordance with Article 28 of the Geneva Convention: Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden, or Switzerland.
You hold either a valid residence card 4 EU FAM or a valid permanent residence card 4 EU FAM issued by the Garda National Immigration Bureau under the European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006 (SI 656 of 2006).
You are a family member of an EU citizen and you hold a document called "Residence card of a family member of a Union citizen" as referred to in article 10 of Directive 2004/38/EC (pdf).

Well that's new then because they used to still require a visa from EU family members. This was discussed thoroughly on immigrationboards.com. I wonder in practice does it work as some immigration guards aren't usually up to date with EU law.

Riat

Its lot of confusion regarding EU laws as French embassy doesn't require visa and can travel without applying France visa and it is mentioned on website, for Italy its nothing mentioned on website ,I think calling to embassy may be working ,do call centers help regarding queries as email has no response.thanks a million.