European tour - Garmin Edge 800 for navigation?

wowitskev

Hi all

Long time reader, first time poster.

I'm planning on a cycle tour around Europe this Summer and was looking for something useful both for telling me where I should go, and also where I have been. From reading up on it, the Edge 800 seems like it could do that job. I was thinking of getting it bundled with a European map pack.

So I'm pretty much looking for some advice, what with this being an expensive piece of kit. Any help with the following would be amazing:

- has anyone used the edge 800 for touring? Is it any use at navigation?
- are there any just as useful but cheaper alternatives?
- are the map packs good?
- where would be the best (ie cheapest) place to get one?

smacl

I haven't used the 800, but have used a much older Garmin GPSmap 200 on and off for a few years. Rather than just depending on the maps, I'd recommend uploading a planned route, so you can easily determine where you should be as well as where you are. The 800 is way better than my old yoke, but rural roads can be difficult to identify on a map on a small screen, particularly as you're losing daylight, which for some reason always seems to be when you need the GPS. The other big thing is to have backup power, Warning, batteries low is not the message you want to see when you're lost in the middle of nowhere. If it's USB based recharging, you can get little spare battery packs with a USB cable. Last time I looked, bike24.com had good prices on Garmin gear.

Don't know if I'd fancy the touch screen on the 800, as my experience has been that this technology isn't great in the rain. Some very good deals on the 705 if you search, which while a bit older and clunkier, could possibly be more robust.

DeadMan1

I really love my Garmin 800, but its GPS mapping is possibly its weakest point. As said, rural roads are quite difficult to see on it.

The touchscreen works better than I thought it would though, even in wet conditions and the battery life is pretty impressive. Could run 7/8 hours using half its battery life

Beasty

smacl wrote: »

Don't know if I'd fancy the touch screen on the 800, as my experience has been that this technology isn't great in the rain.

Never had an issue with the touch screen in the rain or snow - you can always lock it if there are hailstones;)

wowitskev

Cheers lads. I might keep an eye out for a nice cheap 705!

mahoo

just resurrecting this thread as im in the same situation... my issue is i already have my polar for speed/cadence/heart rate etc... so all i need is a GPS i can strap on to the bike..
is there any good cheap alternatives?
are the 800 maps bike specific? (ie include cycling tracks etc)

cheers
matt

Mycroft H

May I ask whatever happened to the good old OS map?

blorg

@mahoo- I haven't heard of any good cheap alternatives that work as well. This doesn't mean that they don't exist but "bicycle GPS" is a niche market to say the least. The Edges are well overpriced compared to cheap car GPSes but they are the best there is (to my knowledge) for use on a bike. I currently have a 705 but it is on the way out and I have an 800 waiting for me in Thailand.

You can put whatever maps you like on them including the free, open source, Openstreetmap, which are quite good (certainly for the price) and have some non-road (walking/cycling) data. For example the Annapurna trekking circuit in the Himalayas is in there. What exactly is there is up to the contributors, so it can be a bit random and routing often isn't the best. You can check out the coverage at www.openstreetmap.org. I have been using Openstreetmap a lot the last few years in Eastern Europe, Syria, Iran, UAE, Oman, India, Nepal, China, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Cambodia.

The Garmin maps for Europe (City Navigator Europe NT) are not free but they are very detailed as to road coverage and have every little tiny road on them. Routing always works, which it doesn't always on Openstreetmap-based maps. I have found these to be superior if you have the option. I have used the Garmin maps in (Western) Europe including extensively in Ireland, and in Turkey.

@BX_19- if you wanted the same level of coverage as to roads, you would be looking at buying 75 Discovery Series maps @€;8.25ea (total €620) or, if you wanted them waterproof like the GPS @€;20ea (total €1,500.) And that's just for Ireland, and without auto routing, directions at junctions and so on…

TheBlaaMan

mahoo wrote: »

just resurrecting this thread as im in the same situation... my issue is i already have my polar for speed/cadence/heart rate etc... so all i need is a GPS i can strap on to the bike..
is there any good cheap alternatives?
are the 800 maps bike specific? (ie include cycling tracks etc)

cheers
matt

An option for guidance (if you have a Polar for the bio stuff) might be a motorcycle GPS such as a Garmin Colorado or (better images) Garmin Quest1. With a handlebar mount, you should be able to pick one up for €120 or thereabouts. I've used a Quest quite successfully on the bike - no spoken directions, but a decent screen and 100% waterproof. Scan around eBay or drop me a PM if you have specific queries/want more info.

coastwatch

+1

I was going suggest the same. I have a garmin 705 and I find the screen is so small it would be practically useless for navigation. But it does everything else really well. I know the screen is a bit bigger and brighter on the 800, but not much.

Maybe something like this with a car / portable garmin gps would be better.

blorg

The 705 is perfectly fine for navigation, it has been my primary method of navigation from Cherbourg to Cambodia with me only occasionally buying paper maps and having none at all in many countries on the way. It is no good to get an overview, certainly, but for the actual navigation it is fine.

The Colorado seems much more expensive than $120... if you could get something similar for around that price and just want navigation it would seem to be a no brainer. There are some worrying reports of very poor battery life on it (as low as 2 hours) but others report getting 15. I met a long distance cyclist in Laos with the related Garmin Oregon and he reported good battery life- and you can always swap in spare batteries, which you can't with the 705/800 (although you can charge them from an auxilliary power pack.) The other tradeoff is that the units are substantially bigger but this may not be an issue for you.

Lumen

The 705 screen size/resolution isn't the problem. The problem is the cripplingly slow navigation functions anywhere with a high density of roads (like much of urban-ish Ireland), although I've used mine outside Ireland and it seems to work much better.

FWIW I've just ordered an IP67-compliant (water & dust-resistant) Android phone (Motorola Defy+), which could be handlebar mounted and would almost certainly navigate better that a Garmin Edge. Dunno about screen readability in direct sunlight, and there is always the major problem with smartphones of GPS battery drain and recharging with all-day riding and camping, but there are bottle or hub dynamo solutions available.

Anyway, that's all horrifically complicated. Despite Blorg's assertion that detailed maps costs thousands of euros, I have toured across France on minor roads before consumer-level GPS devices existed and I don't remember needing more than a handful of paper road maps. Daily route planning was done at campsites and navigational cues scribbled on pieces of paper. I don't remember ever wanting to smash my map into a thousand pieces like I have with the 705.

blorg

The only situation I've found the 705 navigation to be slow is when trying to use it in a car. At 120km/h if it recalculates you can miss your off-ramp, certainly. Never a problem on the bike, and I have used it extensively in urban Ireland. It's doing pretty fine at the moment in Phnom Penh which certainly has a high density of roads.

I also have an Android phone (currently the Samsung Galaxy Note, although I've used three others, they keep getting stolen) which is great and invaluable. I've had an Android and a data plan with Google Maps since India, over a year ago. But I use in addition to, not as a replacement for, the Garmin. Screen readability, fragility, no way would this be a handlebar replacement. I have crashed a fair number of times and the Garmin has gone flying even more. I disentangle myself from the wreckage, search in the nearby bushes for the GPS and it is fine; I doubt an Android phone would stand up as well.

You just can't compare on battery life. With the screen on, GPS on, navigating, you would be lucky to get 3-4 hours, MAX, on an Android phone. Compared to 15-18 on a 705/800. It's just not the same use case. An Android phone I keep in the bag and check at junctions, not leave on the bars all the time. Both are worthwhile, but I like having something visible on the bars at all times telling me how far to go and all the other stuff it does.

My point about the map detail is that if you want the same level of detail you get on the Garmin maps that is what you are looking at paying with paper maps. Yes, you can get by without that level of detail, of course, but the detail is a benefit of the GPS. I have done tours in France (and Ireland) on roads that are not on anything above the Discovery series, or French equivalent. And when you get into a city, which your Michelin map just shows as a big blob, it is invaluable.

The thing certainly has its frustrations, no question, (corrupted rides, quirky routing, altimeter and USB failures, the awful mount) but my experience of it seems very different to yours. I know (despite years of disappointments) you like to disregard orthodox opinion (and often common sense) to persist with unconventional solutions to problems but I predict you are not going to be happy with a bar-mounted Motorola Defy+.

mahoo

thanks for all the advice lads. ill have look on ebay and see if i can find a good deal...

Im kind of with Lumen in that ive always just toured with a paper map and never had any problems.. its finding my way to my accom in big cities im worried about. and the fact ill have 10 people following me means i dont want to take any wrong turns!

thanks again

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

I know (despite years of disappointments) you like to disregard orthodox opinion (and often common sense) to persist with unconventional solutions to problems but I predict you are not going to be happy with a bar-mounted Motorola Defy+.

My position as head of the ministry for stupid ideas is undisputed, but orthodox opinion and common sense would be to use a map, not a €500 touchscreen GPS cycling computer.

Anyway, does the 705/800 have a "re-route" function yet, or does one have to persist through half an hour of "recalculating" hourglasshell every time you make a minor detour?

I am not going to handlebar mount the Defy+ btw, I'm buying it because I'm permanently on call and fed up with trying to get my phone out of a ziploc bag in a hurry whilst cycling at speed. I got dropped on several climbs recently because of this, so it'll be a definite performance improvement.

blorg

I'm not sure how resilient Androids are to sweat as I've only had one since touring and generally leave it in my bar bag. But if my iPod Touch is anything to go by, you can leave it in your jersey pocket and drench it with no side-effects.

The recalculating on a minor detour takes only seconds. Certainly never more than 5 or so. If you were trying to use the thing as a car GPS, then yes, it would be utterly intolerable, but as a bike GPS it is fine.

Tonyandthewhale

I find you can avoid getting lost without investing hundreds of euro in fancy gps units or multiple OS maps by simply not 100% deciding on where you're going until AFTER you get there.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

The recalculating on a minor detour takes only seconds. Certainly never more than 5 or so. If you were trying to use the thing as a car GPS, then yes, it would be utterly intolerable, but as a bike GPS it is fine.

Here is a specific example. A couple of years ago we cycled to Laragh and then started up the Wicklow Gap.

As I left Laragh I decided that I'd like to start tracking how far home it would be, and leave the group further up the road. So I entered somewhere in D15 as the target destination.

The first issue is that if you enter a destination while you are moving, the 705 seems to go into some sort of cyclical "Calculating route" mode. After a few minutes of that it decided that I should turn round and go back to Laragh, and take some other route.

I duly ignored it. It then beeped at me all the way up the Wicklow Gap, offering no option to re-route.

WTF is wrong with this thing? Doesn't it realise that I want a route that goes in the same general direction I'm pointing at the time?

This would annoy the fck out of me if I was touring. Hopeless.

(awaits being told I'm using it wrong)

MackDeToaster

I've just gotten into cycling the past month and hope to do a few tours. I'vea Galaxy Note which is super (I've been trying out Sportstracker, Strava etc on it), but I keep it in my pocket as I don't have a waterproof mount.
With screen on for gps nav duties it'll last maybe 3-4 hours, but there's no real reason to have it on all the time in which case it would last a helluva lot longer. Battery use for fitness apps themselves just tracking is negligible.

I primarily use a Garmin Oregon hiking type gps. It's fully waterproof and takes aa batteries but useage varies depending on the power of the batteries and how much you have the screen on. It also connects with the garmin hrm and cadence sensors. Sometimes I throw in it my pocket and other times on a Ram mount on the bars. That and the Dakota model which is very similar should be getting cheapish now secondhand, they're great pieces of kit.

feck sake lads

what about the etrek garmin models like the vista or legend hcx.

mahoo

thanks again for replies...

excuse my ignorance on these matters but... if you're using a smart phone for GPS would it not run up a massive bill if you're data roaming?

blorg

mahoo wrote: »

thanks again for replies...

excuse my ignorance on these matters but... if you're using a smart phone for GPS would it not run up a massive bill if you're data roaming?

I use a local SIM card with a data plan in each country. $5/month for 2gb here, never came close to using it all. You can also get offline maps that don't use data.