Brake pipes. Advanced corrosion.

2 stroke

Earlier this year, I had a car failed the nct for advanced corrosion of brake pipes. I asked would it be enough to sand and paint the pipes as I considered the rust superficial, but the tester insisted that the pipes needed replacing, which I did. However I kept the old pipes which I cleaned with a light rub with wirewool and spray painted. Yesterday I put another car through the test with these same painted pipes fitted and it passed, same test center and same tester. :mad:

Nissan doctor

2 stroke wrote: »

Earlier this year, I had a car failed the nct for advanced corrosion of brake pipes. I asked would it be enough to sand and paint the pipes as I considered the rust superficial, but the tester insisted that the pipes needed replacing which I did. However I kept the old pipes which I cleaned with a light rub with wirewool and spray painted. Yesterday I put another car through the test with these same painted pipes fitted and it passed, same test center and same tester. :mad:

Presumably both the same type of car.

Its a common issue though, the NCT is just a visual inspection so they cannot determine how deep any visible corrosion goes.

colm_mcm

I'd imagine it's quite possible that the pipes are in bad nick and the paint/smooth surface is just hiding that corrision for now.

2 stroke

Yeah, both 00 avensis. But why are so many cars failing for this recently? Saw 2 failing for this reason today. Are they damaging the lacquer on one test, then finding rust 2 years later?

2 stroke

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'd imagine it's quite possible that the pipes are in bad nick and the paint/smooth surface is just hiding that corrision for now.

If they were in bad nick I wouldn't have used them. Guy that made up pipes for first car agreed there was nothing wrong with them.

Nissan doctor

2 stroke wrote: »

Yeah, both 00 avensis. But why are so many cars failing for this recently? Saw 2 failing for this reason today. Are they damaging the lacquer on one test, then finding rust 2 years later?

Of course they aren't.

Its a major safety issue if they are corroded but, as I said, they can only visually inspect the pipes so have to air on the side of caution. Its easy to feel hard done by until you experience a brake line failure on the road.

I think they should, however, use a tool to test the corrosion of the pipes properly like the MOT and other testing bodies do like this:

http://www.motsigns.co.uk/product/1f_-_Laser_brake_pipe_corrosion_tool_3948

An Ri rua

You are correct. There is NO advanced corrosion. I put my 2000 HDI Xantia through last May / June and the NCT guys (in a Midlands town) told me, after Kevin Hurst a Citroen specialist ensuring it was A1, that I had 'advanced corrosion' in the rear brake pipes. I had replaced front hoses prior to test. Needless to say, it failed.

So some wire brush and black paint later? ................ It passed. Not a bother at all.

And no, there is no underlying corrosion. I know my car and I also trust a 40 year practicing Cit specialist over a sight test. NCT got, job done.

Get........

...........up........

.............that.........

....................garden..............

2 stroke

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I think they should, however, use a tool to test the corrosion of the pipes properly like the MOT and other testing bodies do like this:

http://www.motsigns.co.uk/product/1f_-_Laser_brake_pipe_corrosion_tool_3948

Not attacking you but surely if someone scrapes a steel brake pipe, they treat the scraped area to prevent future corrosion.

Guy:Incognito

An Ri rua wrote: »

You are correct. There is NO advanced corrosion. I put my 2000 HDI Xantia through last May / June and the NCT guys (in a Midlands town) told me, after Kevin Hurst a Citroen specialist ensuring it was A1, that I had 'advanced corrosion' in the rear brake pipes. I had replaced front hoses prior to test. Needless to say, it failed.

So some wire brush and black paint later? ................ It passed. Not a bother at all.

And no, there is no underlying corrosion. I know my car and I also trust a 40 year practicing Cit specialist over a sight test. NCT got, job done.

If they had been looked at before the test why was the rust not cleaned off? Surely it would have saved the hassle?

2 stroke

In my case I had already seen some superficial rust on the pipes and several other areas of the car. If there was any sign of tinworm I would have scrapped or repaired. I've never heard of an avensis steel brake pipe leaking due to corrosion.

Tea drinker

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Its a major safety issue if they are corroded but, as I said, they can only visually inspect the pipes so have to air on the side of caution. Its easy to feel hard done by until you experience a brake line failure on the road.

I think they should, however, use a tool to test the corrosion of the pipes properly like the MOT and other testing bodies do like this:

http://www.motsigns.co.uk/product/1f_-_Laser_brake_pipe_corrosion_tool_3948[/QUOTE]
Been there, total brake failure after driving around a corner..... a herd of cows blocking the road, good fun :-(
I suppose the salting on the roads the past few years is causing some extra surface rust on the pipes, maybe the testers aren't used to asessing it too.

Mycroft H

An Ri rua wrote: »

You are correct. There is NO advanced corrosion. I put my 2000 HDI Xantia through last May / June and the NCT guys (in a Midlands town) told me, after Kevin Hurst a Citroen specialist ensuring it was A1, that I had 'advanced corrosion' in the rear brake pipes. I had replaced front hoses prior to test. Needless to say, it failed.

So some wire brush and black paint later? ................ It passed. Not a bother at all.

And no, there is no underlying corrosion. I know my car and I also trust a 40 year practicing Cit specialist over a sight test. NCT got, job done.

Get........

...........up........

.............that.........

....................garden..............

Kevin knows what he is talking about. Trust him over any other wannabe mechanic not tester

Guy:Incognito

Can you imagine the NCT bashing threads the first time a tester called someone down to tell them they scraped the rust off their lines, exposed a hole and their car is now being pushed out to the carpark with a puddle of brake fluid under it.....

Welease

2 stroke wrote: »

Yeah, both 00 avensis. But why are so many cars failing for this recently? Saw 2 failing for this reason today. Are they damaging the lacquer on one test, then finding rust 2 years later?

Talking to mechanic a few days ago, and said he has lots of cars in this year with corroded brake systems etc.. he felt that local roads may have been over-salted last year.. (we had a similar problem with the wife car brake system locking on due to corrosion)

Rovi

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Can you imagine the NCT bashing threads the first time a tester called someone down to tell them they scraped the rust off their lines, exposed a hole and their car is now being pushed out to the carpark with a puddle of brake fluid under it.....

I'd be praising that particular tester.
If the only thing keeping pressure in the brake line was a rust plug, the vehicle was unroadworthy and a danger to its driver/passengers and everyone else on the road nearby.

2 stroke

Can someone with access to a nct manual, check the wording on this. Do they have the option to give a fail advisory, rust on brake lines? or is the only option, advanced corrosion?

Cosmo K

Just my two cents, From a testers perspective. Sometimes, we get it wrong, like doctors get it things wrong or guards or mechanics. But the fact is, there are a lot of cars out there with rotten brake pipes.
I tested a 06 Mondeo on Monday, and the nearside rear brake pipe was absolutely rotten, I couldn't believe myself, I scrapped, I double checked, scrapped some more, but no, it wasn't just surface rust, the pipe was really rotten.
Yesterday, my colleague tested a 02 Accent, and the front left brake pipe (not the rubber hose!) burst during the brake test. 10 min later I tested a 02 Hyundai Matrix (god there are ugly) anbd the same thing happened to me.

A couple of weeks ago, a mechanic (cowboy) brought a customers car back for a Re-test (another Hyundai Accent), he hadn't replaced the brake pipes, no, the genius had sanded them down so much, they were actually leaking brake fluid....

BrianD3

I often hear about cars failing the NCT for brake line corrosion. Personally I've never had this issue, the oldest car I've had NCT'd was 18 years old and had never had any work to the brake lines.

I occasionally powerhose the underside of our cars which may help to prevent brake line corrosion by removing salty grime.

Also I make sure the underside and lines are clean before going for an NCT.

Car Mechanics magazine recommends "painting" brake lines with heavy grease or Waxoyl etc. Not sure how long that would stay on the lines or how an NCT tester would react to seeing brakes lines covered in greasy grime.

2 stroke

Cosmo. So some testers do sometimes scrape brake pipes. If you scrape a brake pipe and decide to pass the car, do you apply any corrosion prevention to the part of pipe you scraped?

CJhaughey

I had to replace the rear lines on my 99 Avensis, The mechanic who made the new cupro-nickel ones up said the old ones were very bad and actually broke as he was removing them as they were so thin from corrosion.
I inspected them and they were red rotten with rust.
The Avensis is particularly bad as the rear lines are above the fuel tank,and exhaust and probably don't get cleaned by water spray as much as more exposed locations would.
The Avensis Mk1 are probably starting to show this a lot now due to their age and the testers are aware of this.

2 stroke

The pipes on my car had so little rust that there was probably more risk of creating a leak by disturbing the system. This car travelled mainly on unsalted roads and is fitted with winter tyres.
I had initially held on to the set of pipes as I intended to make a complaint. Decided against that, as complaining to people you have to deal with regularly is akin to sending food back in a restaurant. Then one day I had too much time on my hands, so I swapped the pipes onto another car which admitably had some pitted rust on the pipes.

keithclancy

Shouldn't be up to the tester to perform this work for you.

For liability reasons I'd just mark it as a fail and make the customer aware of the reason why.

Where does it end ? Tightening up handbrake cables, replacing bulbs, wiper blades, tyres etc ?

Everything is just two minutes to you, to the Tester all that stuff in a day adds up.

kc66

My car failed a few years ago. Mechanic rubbed them down and painted them and it passed no problem. But at the next test it failed again. Got them replaced. Cost me a fortune too.

2 stroke

Im not asking a tester to replace the pipes, just asking do they repair damage they cause by scraping away protective coatings. A car could come in one year with dirty pipes, tester scrapes away dirt exposing bare metal. Left untreated this part of pipe will be rusty on next test.

Regarding your comment,

Where does it end

I can leave a van for a doe and they will repair and adjust as necessary, if told to do so. Its rediculous that nct testers cannot even adjust a headlight but I can drive into my local doe center and get lights adjusted in the test lane.

Cosmo K

2 stroke wrote: »

Cosmo. So some testers do sometimes scrape brake pipes. If you scrape a brake pipe and decide to pass the car, do you apply any corrosion prevention to the part of pipe you scraped?

We don't have anything to paint them with, nor do we have the time to paint them.
And no, there ist no such thing as "brake pipes-advanced corrosion-fail advisory". Its either pass or fail. And since prime time last year, a lot of my colleagues take no chances. To many AA inspections, to many internal auditors, to easy to get caught.

2 stroke

I guess this is something that the road safety authority and the AA should be looking into, nct testers damaging the braking systems on customers cars.

Nissan doctor

2 stroke wrote: »

Not attacking you but surely if someone scrapes a steel brake pipe, they treat the scraped area to prevent future corrosion.

That tool is to scrape off the surface corrosion that is already there to see how deep it goes and so tell you if the pipes need changing or not.

corktina

do cars still have steel brake pipes? Id have thought they'd all be brass or non-corrdoing alloy type by now

2 stroke

Nissan doctor wrote: »

That tool is to scrape off the surface corrosion that is already there to see how deep it goes and so tell you if the pipes need changing or not.

What about when it is used to scrape away road dirt?

Nissan doctor

2 stroke wrote: »

What about when it is used to scrape away road dirt?

You'd hardly need a tool for that.

It extremely difficult to scrape the protective coating off brake lines anyway.

CJhaughey

corktina wrote: »

do cars still have steel brake pipes? Id have thought they'd all be brass or non-corrdoing alloy type by now

I know that Volvo fit Cupro-nickel pipes from new, or they used to.

keithclancy

2 stroke wrote: »

What about when it is used to scrape away road dirt?

A road dirt scraper ... or as its known in the business a 'brush'

2 stroke

corktina wrote: »

do cars still have steel brake pipes? Id have thought they'd all be brass or non-corrdoing alloy type by now

I dont know what type of steel/laquer is used but they are designed to survive quite punishing conditions, if left undamaged.

An Ri rua

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If they had been looked at before the test why was the rust not cleaned off? Surely it would have saved the hassle?

I am quite sure he had Guy. We raised the car up and had a look and for the life of us could nto see what they were seeing. So some wire brushing and painting it up did the trick. It was structurally sound. The guy's a suspension specialist for decades (brakes included of course on Cits).

Guy:Incognito

Rovi wrote: »

I'd be praising that particular tester..

You might be , but think of some of the numpties you encounnter on the roads , added to the "rabble rabble, NCT is a money making scam" element.

Guy:Incognito

2 stroke wrote: »

Regarding your comment, I can leave a van for a doe and they will repair and adjust as necessary, if told to do so. Its rediculous that nct testers cannot even adjust a headlight but I can drive into my local doe center and get lights adjusted in the test lane.

They will charge you for repairs. Whats ridiculous is have the tests in places that are incentivised to find faults and offers repairs. Plenty of dodgy MOT testers in the UK have ended up getting caught out.

Merch

same happened me, only fail on my car ever, advanced corrosion??
not so advanced that a light sand, wipe down and spray suddenly renewed them to new, pretty sure most of what I took off was dirt.

Maybe it is salting the roads, but never heard much of brake lines failing in the past or maybe the cars generally didnt last as long as the lines??

Cosmo K

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You might be , but think of some of the numpties you encounnter on the roads , added to the "rabble rabble, NCT is a money making scam" element.

Happens on weekly basis, a brake hose or pipe bursts during the brake test (and no, you don't have to jump on the pedal to make that happen) and the shouting starts.
I can totally understand, when people are pissed off, when their car fails on stupid things like number plates or wiper blades, but brakes?!
I had a customer giving out to me recently, because his car had failed on tires. They were worn, well below 1.6mm. He then starts ranting about the banks and Anglo and bondholders and that kind of ****.
What exactly Anglo has to do with the state of his tires, I don't know, but he was convinced the whole thing was a scam , and we were out to get him....

I have to say though, the vast majority of people are nice enough to deal with. Things have really improved over the last couple of years. I'd say, a lot of people now have a much more relaxed attitude to the whole NCT test thing. They will just put the car through, see what it fails on and get it fixed afterwards. No more Pre NCT tests, thank god, they were a flipping nightmare.

Rock Paper Scissors

I know this is an old thread but my car just failed the NCT for a brake line advanced corosion and I just wondered does anyone know how much this will cost to be replaced and should I have it done by Toyota or would using a regular garage be OK?

Cheers

Tea drinker

Rock Paper Scissors wrote: »

I know this is an old thread but my car just failed the NCT for a brake line advanced corosion and I just wondered does anyone know how much this will cost to be replaced and should I have it done by Toyota or would using a regular garage be OK?

Cheers

Ring any reputable independent garage and tell them which brake pipe failed and ask for a quote. Bear in mind they may find other faults the NCT missed, a few weeks after NCT I noticed my 2 front flexi pipes were perished.

Pipes themselves are cheap enough, it's the labour. 150 - 200 all in?
Pure guess tbh