Wing Chun in Cork

USWINGCHUNSIFU

New Wing Chun class forming in Cork out of Kinsale. Si-Fu Michael Clifford is now taking students who wish to learn Wing Chun.

You can contact me by sending me an email to Michaelclifforddc@yahoo.com

Thanks.

Michael O Leary

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

New Wing Chun class forming in Cork out of Kinsale. Si-Fu Michael Clifford is now taking students who wish to learn Wing Chun.

You can contact me by sending me an email to Michaelclifforddc@yahoo.com

Thanks.

Hi,

Great to have more Wing Chun/Tsun in Cork and Ireland in general. Good luck with the classes.

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

USWINGCHUNSIFU

Thanks for the good wishes. Yes not enough Wing Chun for sure.

My best-M

Michael O Leary

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

Thanks for the good wishes. Yes not enough Wing Chun for sure.

My best-M

Hi M,

Yep I agree, however so far there is a good variety of Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun schools in County Cork. As far as I know there is one school that teaches Fatshan Wing Chun, another from the Wong Shun Leung Ving Tsun and two independant Wing Tsun schools. Yours will be a welcome addition.

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

USWINGCHUNSIFU

Thanks Michael.

Fatshan W.C. that's interesting. Didn't know that was here in Cork. For so long it seemed like Yip Man had had the monopoly on Wing Chun. In the states I have seen quite abit of diversity within the style and alot more openess to sharing. Always a good thing I think. All the secrets are no longer secret; pehaps the secret was always that there were no secrets:D.

-Michael

Michael O Leary

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

Thanks Michael.

Fatshan W.C. that's interesting. Didn't know that was here in Cork. For so long it seemed like Yip Man had had the monopoly on Wing Chun. In the states I have seen quite abit of diversity within the style and alot more openess to sharing. Always a good thing I think. All the secrets are no longer secret; pehaps the secret was always that there were no secrets:D.

-Michael

Hi Michael, :-)

As far as I know, the Wing Chun taught in Cork comes from the Wing Chun that Yip Man taught Lun Kai and Kwok Fu in Fatshan before he moved to Hong Kong after the end of the Chinese civil war.

This is different from the Wing Chun that he then taught in Hong Kong and even in the Wing Chun that he taught in Hong Kong there is a further difference in what his two sons Yip Chun and Yip Ching teach as well as a difference in what Wong Shun Leung taught and the head of our organisation, Leung Ting teaches.

There are probably many reasons for this however it does reflect the diversity in Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun which is reflected in the Cork schools.

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

USWINGCHUNSIFU

Many changes since I last taught in Ireland. At that time 1984, I was one of only 3 people in the country to teach Wing Chun. One person had a class that was based in Dublin and the other Sifu had one in Cork.

As the founder of the Academy of Wing Chun Kung Fu Ireland, I established 6 schools throughout Kerry, with a combined total of 350 students. Quite a number of my former students are still training in Wing Chun to this day, 27 years later.
At the time I was fortunate to be able to raise the awareness of Wing Chun in Ireland through several great newspaper articles and radio interviews and with public demos.We even went toe to toe in a competition with another Kung fu organization called Fire Dragon. Any style or branch of Wing Chun would have been well recieved at that time. Definately a very exciting time to be teaching here in Ireland.

USWINGCHUNSIFU

No such ambitions anymore by the way, just to be clear. My focus these days is building the awareness of natural healing, as a Chiropractic Sports Physician.

All the best.

Michael Cifford D.C CCSP

OLDMAN1

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

I was one of only 3 people in the country to teach Wing Chun. One person had a class that was based in Dublin and the other Sifu had one in Cork.

Who were the other 2?

USWINGCHUNSIFU

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

I was one of only 3 people in the country to teach Wing Chun. One person had a class that was based in Dublin and the other Sifu had one in Cork.

Who were the other 2?

I don't know the name of the guy in Dublin.
In Cork a very well respected Si-fu John Reardon, who has continued to keep the flame of wing chun going strong.

OLDMAN1

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

I don't know the name of the guy in Dublin.
In Cork a very well respected Si-fu John Reardon, who has continued to keep the flame of wing chun going strong.

John did some training in the Dublin club in the early 80's, i dont know if he started there but he ended up doing some training with Simon Lau, there were 3 guys teaching in Dublin at the time, Wally Dillon, Leo Moore and Francis Sue (that spelling is'nt right)

USWINGCHUNSIFU

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

I don't know the name of the guy in Dublin.
In Cork a very well respected Si-fu John Reardon, who has continued to keep the flame of wing chun going strong.

John did some training in the Dublin club in the early 80's, i dont know if he started there but he ended up doing some training with Simon Lau, there were 3 guys teaching in Dublin at the time, Wally Dillon, Leo Moore and Francis Sue (that spelling is'nt right)

Well i'm not exactly sure what time you mean but I'm talking 1984-87 And I'm going off what John told me himself. As far as I was given to understand there was one guy in cork and one guy in Dublin.

I was a student of Simon lau from 1975-1980. I never knew John at that time. When I started in 1975 there was only a handful of Wing Chun Sifu in the UK. Joseph Cheng in Lambeth, Victor Khan in London, Simon Lau in Dagenham and Alan Lamb in the Midlands. Also, Austin Gogh in London.

So thats the history of Wing Chun in. Ireland as I know it. And also uk in the very early days.

Michael O Leary

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

I was a student of Simon lau from 1975-1980. When I started in 1975 there was only a handful of Wing Chun Sifu in the UK. Joseph Cheng in Lambeth, Victor Khan in London, Simon Lau in Dagenham and Alan Lamb in the Midlands. Also, Austin Gogh in London.

Hi Michael,

Thats interesting. The head of our European organisation (EWTO) Keith Kernspecht originally studied with Joseph Cheng who then put him in contact with Leung Ting.
http://www.wingtsunwelt.com/gm-kernspecht

I started Wing Tsun in 1993 in Manchester with Nick Smart who was the representative for Leung Ting in the UK at the time. While there I met Aidan Canavan who was the representative for Southern Ireland. When I moved back to Dublin three months later I continued in Aidan's city centre school.

Aidan himself had trained in the Church Street school and took over the reins when the instructors stopped teaching and became a student of Nick Smart. Both myself and Aidan are now students of Rainer Tausend who is and has been a student of Keith Kernspecht since about 1977.

I find the connections in history between the various schools interesting.

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

OLDMAN1

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

Well i'm not exactly sure what time you mean but I'm talking 1984-87 And I'm going off what John told me himself. As far as I was given to understand there was one guy in cork and one guy in Dublin.

I was a student of Simon lau from 1975-1980. I never knew John at that time. When I started in 1975 there was only a handful of Wing Chun Sifu in the UK. Joseph Cheng in Lambeth, Victor Khan in London, Simon Lau in Dagenham and Alan Lamb in the Midlands. Also, Austin Gogh in London.

So thats the history of Wing Chun in. Ireland as I know it. And also uk in the very early days.

I did some training with Joseph Cheng and Austin Goh, But in my opinion Joseph was a different level to anybody else at the time in the UK

OLDMAN1

Michael O Leary wrote: »

Hi Michael,

Thats interesting. The head of our European organisation (EWTO) Keith Kernspecht originally studied with Joseph Cheng who then put him in contact with Leung Ting.

I find that surprising , even forgeting the politics of the time, Joseph Cheng was a student of Lee Sing, why would he send him to somebody else.

Michael O Leary

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

I find that surprising , even forgeting the politics of the time, Joseph Cheng was a student of Lee Sing, why would he send him to somebody else.

Hi Tony,

I don't know the details. That is just what I have heard/read.

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

OLDMAN1

Michael O Leary wrote: »

Hi Tony,

I don't know the details. That is just what I have heard/read.

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie[/QUOTE]

Hi Michael

Im not questioning it, i was just surprised by it,

Tony

USWINGCHUNSIFU

As I recall Joseph Cheng left the Uk to become a personal bodyguard to a Saudi Prince. Perhaps that was why he would refer someone on, pure speculation, but logical. It was my impression that Joseph Cheng had very little to do with his western students and his chinese students were the ones that taught the westerners. His class did not seem exactly integrated. He did have a reputation as being the senior amongst the other students of Lee Shing.

OLDMAN1

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

As I recall Joseph Cheng left the Uk to become a personal bodyguard to a Saudi Prince. Perhaps that was why he would refer someone on, pure speculation, but logical. It was my impression that Joseph Cheng had very little to do with his western students and his chinese students were the ones that taught the westerners. His class did not seem exactly integrated. He did have a reputation as being the senior amongst the other students of Lee Shing.

Thats what we were told at the time, i heard later that he moved back to China after a few years of working there and died soon after, still relatively young. He used to come over to the Dublin club with Austin Goh, Nigal Fann and Eddie yao and some went over to England to train.His classes were mostly Chinese. After Joseph went the connection between the clubs just stopped, (i dont know why) from what i remember he was Lee Sing's senior student, but it wasn't just that, he was a different level, a lot of people in England seem to have writen him out of Wing Chun history for some reason...

USWINGCHUNSIFU

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

Thats what we were told at the time, i heard later that he moved back to China after a few years of working there and died soon after, still relatively young. He used to come over to the Dublin club with Austin Goh, Nigal Fann and Eddie yao and some went over to England to train.His classes were mostly Chinese. After Joseph went the connection between the clubs just stopped, (i dont know why) from what i remember he was Lee Sing's senior student, but it wasn't just that, he was a different level, a lot of people in England seem to have writen him out of Wing Chun history for some reason...

Some have written Lee Shing out of their lineage too. I think it is quite fascinating to see all the threads that have woven the rich tapestry of Wing Chun to this day. Joseph Cheng appears to be one of the mysterious Wing Chun Sifu that came and went. He must have been quite young when he died, I'd never heard that before.

Perhaps you remember Derek Jones a Victor Khan student.

OLDMAN1

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

Some have written Lee Shing out of their lineage too. I think it is quite fascinating to see all the threads that have woven the rich tapestry of Wing Chun to this day. Joseph Cheng appears to be one of the mysterious Wing Chun Sifu that came and went. He must have been quite young when he died, I'd never heard that before.

Perhaps you remember Derek Jones a Victor Khan student.

The problem with Lee Sing was that although he was a member of the Yip Mans association, he wasn't Yip Mans linage and when he died politics came into it. i dont know if it true but i was told a number of years ago that Simon Lau wasn't Lee Sing linage either although he is listed as his student, who did Simon learn from?

in my opinion Joseph Cheung wan'nt mysterious he just believed in fighting and a lot of Wing chun teachers dont

I dont remember a Derek Jones, but my memory is'nt what it used to be

USWINGCHUNSIFU

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

Some have written Lee Shing out of their lineage too. I think it is quite fascinating to see all the threads that have woven the rich tapestry of Wing Chun to this day. Joseph Cheng appears to be one of the mysterious Wing Chun Sifu that came and went. He must have been quite young when he died, I'd never heard that before.

Perhaps you remember Derek Jones a Victor Khan student.

The problem with Lee Sing was that although he was a member of the Yip Mans association, he wasn't Yip Mans linage and when he died politics came into it. i dont know if it true but i was told a number of years ago that Simon Lau wasn't Lee Sing linage either although he is listed as his student, who did Simon learn from?

in my opinion Joseph Cheung wan'nt mysterious he just believed in fighting and a lot of Wing chun teachers dont

I dont remember a Derek Jones, but my memory is'nt what it used to be[/


Simon always said that he learned under Yip Man. That's all we knew at the time. However, I have not heard or seen that acknowledged by other Sifu. It remains unclear to me. I was told that he talked highly of Lee Shing. If you were close to Austin Gogh I would think he would have told you who learned from who.

Back then Everyone wanted to connect to Yip Man because he taught Bruce Lee, so that gave you instant credibility. Then it became about how senior you were under Yip.
After meeting so many Wing Chun Sifu and students from all over, I have concluded that very very, if any got the art in its entirety. When these students arrived in the US or Europe or Australia, they had large gaps in there knowledge and understanding of Wing Chun, so just as Bruce Lee did, they added and changed things to create a cohesive style of WC. That's why you have all the secretive, competitive behavior, and politics in the WC system to a degree unlike any other Martial art. I think I got off on a tangent here but if anyone knows more about Simons lineage I would like to know.
For a while I heard the name Wong sze Wing bandied around if that rings any bells.

My best-michael

OLDMAN1

USWINGCHUNSIFU wrote: »

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

Simon always said that he learned under Yip Man. That's all we knew at the time. However, I have not heard or seen that acknowledged by other Sifu. It remains unclear to me. I was told that he talked highly of Lee Shing. If you were close to Austin Gogh I would think he would have told you who learned from who.

Back then Everyone wanted to connect to Yip Man because he taught Bruce Lee, so that gave you instant credibility. Then it became about how senior you were under Yip.
After meeting so many Wing Chun Sifu and students from all over, I have concluded that very very, if any got the art in its entirety. When these students arrived in the US or Europe or Australia, they had large gaps in there knowledge and understanding of Wing Chun, so just as Bruce Lee did, they added and changed things to create a cohesive style of WC. That's why you have all the secretive, competitive behavior, and politics in the WC system to a degree unlike any other Martial art. I think I got off on a tangent here but if anyone knows more about Simons lineage I would like to know.
For a while I heard the name Wong sze Wing bandied around if that rings any bells.

My best-michael

I heard Simon Lau was very good and i always wondored were he learned it from.I was never close to Austin Goh, i was very young at the time, people like wally dillon and leo moore would have know them better but as far as i know neither is involved in Wing Chun anymore, i agree with the rest, what most people forget is that most of Yip mans students only trained with him for relatively short time, i heard that Victor Kan was the longest 6 - 7 years, most only did 2 or 3 years before opening there own schools and as far as i know Yip Man never gave any grades out..
all the best Tony

USWINGCHUNSIFU

Simon had a very unique quality.I have not seen that particular quality in other Sifu. We were all very inspired. So I dont know who taught like that or whether it was just some inherent quality belonging to Simon. Our Wing Chun may have appeared very hard style, by contrast to what I have seen, mostly in the states.

Some of the Yip man students have told me that Yip man just would correct them now and again, and that his handful of seniors did most of the teaching. Definately no grades but an unspoken heirachy within the school.

My best-Michael

ShockBreakout

Michael O Leary wrote: »

As far as I know there is one school that teaches Fatshan Wing Chun, another from the Wong Shun Leung Ving Tsun and two independant Wing Tsun schools.

Does anyone have any contact information for the Wong Shun Leung school? Are they still in Cork?

Michael O Leary

ShockBreakout wrote: »

Does anyone have any contact information for the Wong Shun Leung school? Are they still in Cork?

Hi,

http://www.teamwingchun.co.uk/index.php/en/schools/77-english-categories/winchun-teachers-gb/122-cork-school.html

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

mckormick

Hi - sorry to bump an old post but I wondered if there were still Wing Tsun classes in Kinsale?

Also does anyone know of any other Wing Tsun/Chun classes or private instructors in West. Cork?

Many thanks!