NHL Final Weekend thread

adrian522

Well the final weekend of the round robin games in Division 1A and 1B is upon us fixtures as follows:

Division 1A

Waterford v Dublin
Kilkenny v Galway
Tipp v Cork

Division 1B

Wexford v Laois
Offaly v Clare
Antrim v Limerick

Tables:

1 Cork 4 3 1 0 89 82 6
2 Kilkenny 4 3 1 0 99 83 6
3 Tipperary 4 2 1 1 93 89 5
4 Galway 4 2 2 0 82 75 4
5 Waterford 4 1 3 0 74 99 2
6 Dublin 4 0 3 1 87 96 1


1 Clare 4 4 0 0 103 65 8
2 Offaly 4 2 1 1 103 87 5
3 Limerick 4 2 1 1 91 88 5
4 Antrim 4 2 2 0 83 88 4
5 Wexford 4 1 3 0 84 104 2
6 Laois 4 0 4 0 77 109 0

As far as I am aware the following is what happens next:

The top 2 in division 1B play off, the winner of that game will play the top team in division 1A in a league semi final.
The second and third placed teams in Division 1A will play in the other semi final.

The bottom 2 teams in Division 1A will play off with loser being relegated.

From my understanding where 2 teams are level position will be determined by the head to head game, where more than 2 teams are level points difference will be used.

Looks like Clare are in the 1B final against either Offaly, Limerick or Antrim, while Dublin will play either Waterford or Galway in the relegation game.

Also looks like 3 from Cork, Kilkenny, Tipp and Galway will contest the semi finals.

What do people think of this league structure? It seems a bit complicated and contrived. Hopefully we'll get good semi finals and final out of it though.

dcr22B

If only we had beaten Tipp at the weekend, we would have had a chance of avoiding the relegation playoff if we beat Waterford and Cork beat Tipp in Semple.

Anyway, the extra game will hopefully do us good and we won't be showing much of a hand this weekend as the playoff is a much more significant game.

Personally, I think it could quite easily be Galway and not Waterford that we'll face in the play off and we'll be determined to put right the dismal performance we put in down in Salthill a few weeks back.

adrian522

I have to believe that Dublin will stay up. They should probably have beaten Cork, Kilkenny and Tipp and to only come away with 1 point from those is disappointing but the performances have been good and they will be well setup for the championship.

They absolutely need to stay in division 1A though.

dcr22B

adrian522 wrote: »

They absolutely need to stay in division 1A though.

I think if we focus solely on the relegation playoff and hit the ground running, we will stay up.

You're 100% correct, we'll only regress not matter how well we do in the championship if we fall into Division 1B

aidan24326

Kilkenny are a near-certainty to beat Galway, and Waterford will probably beat an understrength Dublin. So it's most likely going to be a Galway-Dublin relegation game.

I think it would be a bigger blow for Dublin if they went down.

blue note

Do you not think that the league will be reorganised if Dublin are relegated? I couldn't imagine that they'd allow them to fall out of the top flight at present.

Pride Fighter

The league is a joke in its current system. I preferred the 8 team first division myself. Gave teams more games, so they could be better prepared for the championships.

adrian522

aidan24326 wrote: »

Kilkenny are a near-certainty to beat Galway, and Waterford will probably beat an understrength Dublin. So it's most likely going to be a Galway-Dublin relegation game.

I think it would be a bigger blow for Dublin if they went down.

I wouldn't be too sure of Kilkenny, they've struggled the last couple of games and they are pretty much certain to be in the semi finals and while Galway have blown hot and cold when they were on form they were very good, I think the Kilkenny Galway game will be very close.

Are you sure Dublin will put out an under strength team? I would have thought it would be in their interests to ensure they are playing Waterford not Galway in the relegation decider.

dastardly00

Pride Fighter wrote: »

The league is a joke in its current system. I preferred the 8 team first division myself. Gave teams more games, so they could be better prepared for the championships.

On the flip-side, the shorter format has increased competition. Teams cannot afford to put out weaker sides and potentially lose a couple of matches, otherwise they are definitely in a relegation battle. That in itself, will also prepare teams for the champtionships. A few high tempo, high quality matches could be better than a long drawn out campaign where many of the top players are rested. Only time will tell I suppose.

dastardly00

adrian522 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure of Kilkenny, they've struggled the last couple of games and they are pretty much certain to be in the semi finals and while Galway have blown hot and cold when they were on form they were very good, I think the Kilkenny Galway game will be very close.

Are you sure Dublin will put out an under strength team? I would have thought it would be in their interests to ensure they are playing Waterford not Galway in the relegation decider.

I think he means that Dublin have so many injuries, that their team is understrength , rather than naming an understrength side while resting better players.

adrian522

adrian522 wrote: »

What do people think of this league structure? It seems a bit complicated and contrived. Hopefully we'll get good semi finals and final out of it though.

i was initially skeptic but the league has been terrific this year. Dublin in particular have made a great contribution to it playing in 3 thrillers. its unfortunate for them they only have 1 point to show for their endeavour. i think hypothetically speaking, if you take a scenario where Galway were to beat Kilkenny and finish above Waterford who manage to beat Dublin, then Waterford would have to beat Dublin again the following week to stay in the division but at the same time would be 3 points ahead of them. It's a bit mad really.

While i wouldnt write that scenario off, personally though, i think both Kilkenny and Dublin will win. Cork and Tipp, its flip a coin. Should be 3 thrillers in my opinion. The new format while unfair on certain counties has given the league a little more meaning and perhaps given the teams a chance to play at a more accurate standard whilst giving them a platform to improve.

runjb

adrian522 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure of Kilkenny, they've struggled the last couple of games and they are pretty much certain to be in the semi finals and while Galway have blown hot and cold when they were on form they were very good, I think the Kilkenny Galway game will be very close.

Are you sure Dublin will put out an under strength team? I would have thought it would be in their interests to ensure they are playing Waterford not Galway in the relegation decider.

Kilkenny will have to go full steam ahead into this match. A Nolan Park venue will be huge for the team, and I'd like to see records to show when last they lost in Nolan Park in the league. If KK lose and Tipp win (Which they may well do as they have a home venue), then KK will not make the semi-finals so they will certainly be taking no chances this weekend, expect a full force KK team on show.

I think Waterford may well beat Dublin this weekend. Dublin are already in the regulation final and with some injuries will not want to risk these players, and may instead rest them for the final. Waterford seem to be getting things together, Mullane back, Eoin Kelly coming off the bench the last day, and presumably T Browne, S Mulumphy, S Prendergast all fit to go this time round, expect them to put on a big performance in front of the home crowd.

randd1

adrian522 wrote: »

They absolutely need to stay in division 1A though.

Yes, they do. Playing the likes of ourselves, Galway, Tipp, Cork and Waterford regularly over the last few years has undoubtedly been the biggest reason Dublin have improved.

That level of competition Dublin have faced, and gradually became more competitive against, has been the making of the skill levels, confidence, physicality and attitude that Dublin have been able to produce in their ever improving performances. So much have Dublin improved there is talk here in Kilkenny that Dublin could do a number on us in the championship and be Leinster champions this year. Dublin would never have advanced if to that level unless they were playing at that level regularly.

Personally I think ye will stay up, ye definitely have more about ye than Waterford at the moment. And as I so eloquently witnessed in Nowlan Park, this year Dublin are creating and scoring goals, and with Waterford's defensive problems that could be the difference.

ShamoBuc

I'm not a great fan of the current set up but it certainly makes every game far more important with some very good games in general. The flip side is you have less games to introduce new players as the games are so important.

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

I'm not a great fan of the current set up but it certainly makes every game far more important with some very good games in general. The flip side is you have less games to introduce new players as the games are so important.

From a season ticket point of view thats a big drawback. please god we make the semis if anything for the extra game.

adrian522

runjb wrote: »

If KK lose and Tipp win (Which they may well do as they have a home venue), then KK will not make the semi-finals so they will certainly be taking no chances this weekend, expect a full force KK team on show.

I think you are wrong there, in that scenario Kilkenny, Galway and Cork all have 6 points and unless there is some one sided win for galway then kilkenny should squeeze in on points difference.

Deleted User wrote: »

i was initially skeptic but the league has been terrific this year. Dublin in particular have made a great contribution to it playing in 3 thrillers. its unfortunate for them they only have 1 point to show for their endeavour. i think hypothetically speaking, if you take a scenario where Galway were to beat Kilkenny and finish above Waterford who manage to beat Dublin, then Waterford would have to beat Dublin again the following week to stay in the division but at the same time would be 3 points ahead of them. It's a bit mad really.

While i wouldnt write that scenario off, personally though, i think both Kilkenny and Dublin will win. Cork and Tipp, its flip a coin. Should be 3 thrillers in my opinion. The new format while unfair on certain counties has given the league a little more meaning and perhaps given the teams a chance to play at a more accurate standard whilst giving them a platform to improve.

I agree its good for the supporters with competitive crucial games every week though rather than a relegation playoff I'd prefer the bottom team to play against the top team from 1B to decide who plays in 1A the following year.

randd1 wrote: »

Yes, they do. Playing the likes of ourselves, Galway, Tipp, Cork and Waterford regularly over the last few years has undoubtedly been the biggest reason Dublin have improved.

That level of competition Dublin have faced, and gradually became more competitive against, has been the making of the skill levels, confidence, physicality and attitude that Dublin have been able to produce in their ever improving performances. So much have Dublin improved there is talk here in Kilkenny that Dublin could do a number on us in the championship and be Leinster champions this year. Dublin would never have advanced if to that level unless they were playing at that level regularly.

Personally I think ye will stay up, ye definitely have more about ye than Waterford at the moment. And as I so eloquently witnessed in Nowlan Park, this year Dublin are creating and scoring goals, and with Waterford's defensive problems that could be the difference.

I agree Dublin could be well setup to ambush kilkenny in the leinster semi final this year.

ShamoBuc

Deleted User wrote: »

From a season ticket point of view thats a big drawback. please god we make the semis if anything for the extra game.

Were season tickets reduced as a result of less games?

adrian522

No but you can go into other counties league games + semi and final + the club finals so if you go to all those games its not too bad.

Pride Fighter

dastardly00 wrote: »

On the flip-side, the shorter format has increased competition. Teams cannot afford to put out weaker sides and potentially lose a couple of matches, otherwise they are definitely in a relegation battle. That in itself, will also prepare teams for the champtionships. A few high tempo, high quality matches could be better than a long drawn out campaign where many of the top players are rested. Only time will tell I suppose.

I agree with your post, and it does make perfect sense. However, Dublin or Waterford, and possible Galway could be relegated. I think from a Dublin perspective, if we're relegated, beating the likes of Carlow and Antrim by 30 points will do us no good, in fact we'd probably be sloppy and go down to their level and Antrim could potentially beat us like they did in the championship a few years. I think Dublin have made great strides, by playing the likes of KK and Tipp, has upped our physicality, intensity and skill level and not playing them annually in the league would severely dent our upward curve.

runjb

adrian522 wrote: »

I think you are wrong there, in that scenario Kilkenny, Galway and Cork all have 6 points and unless there is some one sided win for galway then kilkenny should squeeze in on points difference.

Sorry my mistake, yes if three teams end up even on points then points difference will come into play to decide who comes out on top. I'd still imagine KK will want to top the group if possible so I'd have my money on a KK win.

Does anyone know how pairings for semi-finals will be made? Open draw or based on finishing positions?

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Were season tickets reduced as a result of less games?

New members pay €80. ive been on it 3 years so i pay €75. True that there is open access to other games this year which is great and i have often went to neutral games but if im being honest i would rather go to one or two tipp football games instead no disrespect to the other hurling counties just prefer going to games when im following a team.

the system is based on following the code well and good but there should also be an option of following the county instead of following the code.

adrian522

runjb wrote: »

Does anyone know how pairings for semi-finals will be made? Open draw or based on finishing positions?

I believe the top team will play the winner of 1B, with 2nd and 3rd facing off in the other semi.

Mountainlad

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I agree with your post, and it does make perfect sense. However, Dublin or Waterford, and possible Galway could be relegated. I think from a Dublin perspective, if we're relegated, beating the likes of Carlow and Antrim by 30 points will do us no good, in fact we'd probably be sloppy and go down to their level and Antrim could potentially beat us like they did in the championship a few years. I think Dublin have made great strides, by playing the likes of KK and Tipp, has upped our physicality, intensity and skill level and not playing them annually in the league would severely dent our upward curve.

I honestly can't see that happening. Dublin are far beyond both Antrim and Carlow at the moment, and with the strength and depth and continuing success of yer underage teams, that's not likely to stop anytime soon.

Clare and Limerick are both in Division 1B yet they'd hammer those teams come championship as well. It wouldn't be ideal but I think people make it out to be worse than it is. Dublin would definetly come straight back up, and therefore they'd have at least 1 semi final match against the best team in 1A. Anyway, that's all hypothetical of course, Dublin are far from relegated. I just hope we beat ye Sunday, because I'd hate to have to play ye in a relegation playoff!

aidan24326

adrian522 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure of Kilkenny, they've struggled the last couple of games and they are pretty much certain to be in the semi finals and while Galway have blown hot and cold when they were on form they were very good, I think the Kilkenny Galway game will be very close.

Are you sure Dublin will put out an under strength team? I would have thought it would be in their interests to ensure they are playing Waterford not Galway in the relegation decider.

No I'm not sure at all, you'd have to ask Anthony Daly that one!

Hard to know how they'll approach it really. And I'm not too sure that they'd rather be playing Waterford than Galway. They'd have about the same chance against either team I think. Whether it's Waterford v Dublin or Galway v Dublin I don't think there would be much in it.

Speak Now

So galway going into the last game in the group can win the league or be relegated yet?

Galway would better Kilkenny's points difference with a 5 point win but i dont see a scenario where this will be relevant.

Cork could be squeezed out if they lose to Tipp as they could have worst points difference if KK lost to Galway.

Kilkenny seem best placed team to qualify even if they lose.
If Cork beat Tipp then KK stay ahead of Tipp.
If Tipp beat Cork then KK would need to lose by 9 points more than Cork.
If Cork/Tipp draw than KK would need to lose by 13 points to miss out.

This is all based on the assumption that points difference not head to head comes into play when 3 teams tie.

Of course if Galway lose then top current top 3 qualify regardless of result in Thurles. Then it's all eyes on the Waterford/Dublin game!