(Air rifle)Pre-charged vs Break barrel?

Recoil12

I am soon going to get my first licence and first rifle.I am going for an air rifle for my first gun and I am wondering what air rifle is better precharged or break barrel.Things to be considered: price,power,efficiency,durability.
The gun is going to be used for hunting vermin(rabbits,etc.)any help would be greatly appreciated.

mallards

I bought this one, http://www.gunmart.net/gun_review/cometa_fenix_400/
I think its a fantastic little air gun and have had a good few rabbits with it. Great craic just plinking away with it too!

extremetaz

We've two PCP's (HW100KT & HW100T FAC), and a break barrel (HW90) in the house.

The PCP's are far easier for a novice to shoot - the recoil involved with the Spring/gas ram machines makes them hard to get to grips with initially and can also pay a heavy toll on scopes unless they're rated for springers.

A good break barrell will set you back about €300 (now that's a properly good one - you can get them cheaper but they're largely a waste of money - similarly, you can pay a good bit more) and the chief adavantage of them is that once you have ammo - that's it, you're done. Go have fun!

PCP's start at about €500 and work up to the Weihrauchs mentioned above which are closer to the €900-1000 mark. Then you'll need either a Hill pump or a dive bottle - either will cost about €160, the latter is optional on the HW's really as they've such a small cylinder on them. However, if you go for something with a larger tank, you definitely will not want to be use a pump. With the dive bottle option, you'll have to get familiar with your local scuba club or similar in order to get it filled as required (probably no more than 4 times a year unless you're doing a HELL of a lot of shooting!).

The best selection of air rifles I've ever seen stocked is up with Ian at Aim & Swing in Mountnugent - he has a great selection there and will tell you honestly what's good and what's not. He's also very well priced.

Tends to be limited ammo available but he usually has at least something of a decent quality in stock - steer clear of Gamo, Bulldog, Eley, etc.. for pellets - they're a waste of money. Spend the extra €4 and go for Accupel, Daystate, JSB, H&N... whichever he happens to have on the shelf.

Boredtodeath

I got the same rifle as mallards last year, cometa fenix 400, nice rifle if you just want it for hunting/ plinking, theres one on sale at the minute here http://openseason.ie/irishguntrader/cometa-fenix-400-22/ its a bit overpriced, if its in good condition it should be worth 250 - 270, just make sure the factory spring if replaced in it.

German pointer

Is it leagal to hunt rabbits with an air rifle in Ireland. Heard somewhere that you could not use it for that

4200fps

German pointer wrote: »

Is it leagal to hunt rabbits with an air rifle in Ireland. Heard somewhere that you could not use it for that

I'd imagine it be legal tho it be a nice enjoyable way to shoot them. Some of them are very accurate especially the .17 air rifle. I'd like to fire one

Recoil12

mallards wrote: »

I bought this one, http://www.gunmart.net/gun_review/cometa_fenix_400/
I think its a fantastic little air gun and have had a good few rabbits with it. Great craic just plinking away with it too!

That looks like a nice gun.Did you get it from a dealer or from the above site?

extremetaz wrote: »

We've two PCP's (HW100KT & HW100T FAC), and a break barrel (HW90) in the house.

The PCP's are far easier for a novice to shoot - the recoil involved with the Spring/gas ram machines makes them hard to get to grips with initially and can also pay a heavy toll on scopes unless they're rated for springers.

A good break barrell will set you back about €300 (now that's a properly good one - you can get them cheaper but they're largely a waste of money - similarly, you can pay a good bit more) and the chief adavantage of them is that once you have ammo - that's it, you're done. Go have fun!

PCP's start at about €500 and work up to the Weihrauchs mentioned above which are closer to the €900-1000 mark. Then you'll need either a Hill pump or a dive bottle - either will cost about €160, the latter is optional on the HW's really as they've such a small cylinder on them. However, if you go for something with a larger tank, you definitely will not want to be use a pump. With the dive bottle option, you'll have to get familiar with your local scuba club or similar in order to get it filled as required (probably no more than 4 times a year unless you're doing a HELL of a lot of shooting!).

The best selection of air rifles I've ever seen stocked is up with Ian at Aim & Swing in Mountnugent - he has a great selection there and will tell you honestly what's good and what's not. He's also very well priced.

Tends to be limited ammo available but he usually has at least something of a decent quality in stock - steer clear of Gamo, Bulldog, Eley, etc.. for pellets - they're a waste of money. Spend the extra €4 and go for Accupel, Daystate, JSB, H&N... whichever he happens to have on the shelf.

Thanks for the very detailed reply:).I will be a first time shooter so in your opinion the PCP is a better choice although they are quite expensive.The break barrel seems economical even though I wouldnt be spending a lot on refills for the PCP.Your reply has opened my eyes to this as I hadnt reallly considered the refilling.Which is easier to maintain?Thanks again for the detailed reply

Boredtodeath wrote: »

I got the same rifle as mallards last year, cometa fenix 400, nice rifle if you just want it for hunting/ plinking, theres one on sale at the minute here http://openseason.ie/irishguntrader/cometa-fenix-400-22/ its a bit overpriced, if its in good condition it should be worth 250 - 270, just make sure the factory spring if replaced in it.

that does look like a nice gun and so far its looking good as its been recommended twice

German pointer wrote: »

Is it leagal to hunt rabbits with an air rifle in Ireland. Heard somewhere that you could not use it for that

Yes I am nearly positive that once they are above a certain power they are legal and humane to use.I am going to see what the powers are like but I think 30ft/lbs is a good power



Thanks everyone for the replys and if anyone has anything else to say please do.

German pointer

4200fps wrote: »

I'd imagine it be legal tho it be a nice enjoyable way to shoot them. Some of them are very accurate especially the .17 air rifle. I'd like to fire one

I know they would be lovely to get rabbits with. They do it in England all the time with air guns and magpies aswell. just thought it was different law here. I would love to have one myself. What power would it need to be? for the rabbits I mean.

4200fps

If it doesn't penetrate through one side of a bean tin atleast at 100yards i'd stay at home. If you want a good one i'd say 40ft/lb is what you need. If its accuracy i recon .177 and get one with a 400cc tank that will go to 230bar. Theres lads on this that would know lots about them but a good air rifle will cost euro600+ and anything below that is the basic enough I recon. You can pay up to 1500euro new for the best out there. A hmr would be cheaper to buy cause all the extra's your going to have to buy if you want real performance is a sight. Air tanks the lot but. Now i could be totally wrong this is all opinion. I looked to get one years ago but could not afford what i wanted. I was going for top shelf

There's the daddy of all daddys for hunting http://youtu.be/nupDmSf6R8g .
The real price for that gun is £1310 and thats a good few weekends inside playing xbox drinking mi-wadi
That price includes a choice of two scopes. That's a great deal!

extremetaz

yeeeesh - this post got LLLONG!!

'pologies.

German pointer wrote: »

Is it leagal to hunt rabbits with an air rifle in Ireland. Heard somewhere that you could not use it for that

As far as I'm aware Rabbits fall under "pests" here, not game, and are defined as small animals so they are legal to shoot with an air rifle.

The line stops at "game" and pretty much anything any larger than a rabbit.

Recoil12 wrote: »

...in your opinion the PCP is a better choice although they are quite expensive.

Plenty of people have learned to shoot on break barrels - so don't rule them out. Furthermore, a good break barrel, such as the HW90 I mentioned, is every bit as accurate as any field PCP rifle out there within reason. The principle difference is that they are simply harder to shoot well with because they jump around when you pull the trigger and as a result, it will take longer to get the same results with them than it would with a PCP.

The other thing is that if you want to get into the technicalities of shooting well, then eliminating recoil from the mix will allow you to concentrate on the other aspects that bit more easily (sight picture, hold, trigger, follow through). If you progress to .22LR etc... in the future, then you're going to have to deal with recoil, no doubt about it, but if you've gotten the hang of the above basics beforehand, you'll find that adding recoil to the mix whilst knowing you're doing everything else right to begin with, will mean that you get good results far faster than you would starting from scratch.

Recoil12 wrote: »

The break barrel seems economical even though I wouldnt be spending a lot on refills for the PCP.....

A 300bar refill will cost €15 at the most - I get mine filled for about €5 about twice a year.

Recoil12 wrote: »

Which is easier to maintain?Thanks again for the detailed reply

There's really very little to the maintenance of either - although there are a lot more seals in a PCP, and if anything's going to need anything more than a rubdown, it's them. It can be done yourself depending on how tech savvy you are but your RFD will be able to direct you to someone who can service it for you if it comes to that.

Beyond seals, just keep it clean, rub down the metal surfaces with a suitable water deterrent every so often, furniture polish on the stock... basics really.

There are a few schools of thought with regard to cleaning the barrel - most folk clean it when they get the rifle and before they try new ammo. After that, unless it's not putting them where you think it should, leave well enough alone.

Recoil12 wrote: »

Yes I am nearly positive that once they are above a certain power they are legal and humane to use.I am going to see what the powers are like but I think 30ft/lbs is a good power

There's no legislation even nearly that specific in this country - but you require about 7J (~5ft.lbs) of energy at the point of impact to take a rabbit with a headshot if I'm informed correctly.

The vast majority of the stuff you see from the UK is done with 12ft.lb rifles from about 30m - if you have a 30ft.lb rifle you could probably even take them with a chest shot at that range. But I'd advise .22 rather than .177 if you're that way inclined.

4200fps wrote: »

If it doesn't penetrate through one side of a bean tin atleast at 100yards i'd stay at home.

I'd say get it to your RFD for a service! ...but yes, should definitely be able to manage at least that much.

4200fps wrote: »

If you want a good one i'd say 40ft/lb is what you need. If its accuracy i recon .177 and get one with a 400cc tank that will go to 230bar.

40ft.lbs would be wayy more than enough - the three I listed are 20ft.lb, 24ftlbs and 30ft.lb respectively, and they're way more than capable if you do your part.

That's not to say 40ft.lbs a bad idea, just that it's not required. However, those power levels do introduce another potential issue into the mix - and that is that at those energy levels, that lighter ammo will go supersonic - and that completely ruins air rifle accuracy.

.177 exacerbates this issue as most of the ammo is rather light (as it's tiny!) and even the very heaviest stuff is only 16gr (and it's damn near impossible to get) with most of the "magnum" stuff coming in a 10.64gr. The most prolific weights in .177 are from 5.8-8.6gr.

So - if you're going for that sort of power - go for a .22 as the pellets are far more available in weights that will allow you to stay below about 1040ft/s which is pretty much the ceiling for decent accuracy in an air rifle pellet.

....aaaaand at those velocities, the pellet trajectory will be just as flat as the average .177 in any case, so accuracy/convenience will remain unaffected.

finally - if you go for one with a 400cc tank, then you're definitely gonna want a dive tank for filling it. Personally I'd recommend a 300bar 7L unit - best bang per buck by a mile.

4200fps wrote: »

Theres lads on this that would know lots about them but a good air rifle will cost euro600+ and anything below that is the basic enough I recon. You can pay up to 1500euro new for the best out there. A hmr would be cheaper to buy cause all the extra's your going to have to buy if you want real performance is a sight.

There's no doubt - any rimfire rifle can be bought for less than the cost of a good PCP air rifle... but €1500 is a little critical.

I bought my HW100 (pretty much unanimously agreed as being the very best of the field air rifles [ie: not a competition target rifle] available) for €950 with a Hawke Nite-eye 6.5-20x50 AOIR scope, 2 mags, quickfill adapter & dive bottle regulator. I Bought a 7L 300Bar Faber dive bottle for €80 secondhand out of cert. Recertification and a fill was €35 and that lasts 5 years (the cert, not the fill ).

..now - something like and Air Arms S400 can be had for about €750 off the shelf, a BSA Scorpion can be had for closer to €600... and these are both also fantastic rifles which are still more than capable.

The HW90, is €650 off the shelf and it's considered one of the very best break barrels out there, so again, €350-500 will get you a VERY usable breakbarrel air rifle.


Then we bring in the ammo:

Rimfire - .22LR == €5 for 50 in the average shop for bog standard stuff yes? and the match and magnum rounds climb from there.

Air rifle - ~€15 for 500 pellets! (and that's decent, match grade stuff)




Anyway - that's my tuppence - apologies again for the length of it.



oh, ps:

4200fps wrote: »

There's the daddy of all daddys for hunting http://youtu.be/nupDmSf6R8g .

that appears to be a link to a magpie cradle video...

but THIS is the Eun Jin Sumatra 2500R - and if you want power in PCP form, this IS the daddy. 60ft.lb max with two lower power settings. Incidentally, Hilltop have one in stock in .22 - think they're looking for aroundabout €500 for it, scoped and moderated!

mallards

Recoil12 wrote: »

mallards wrote: »

I bought this one, http://www.gunmart.net/gun_review/cometa_fenix_400/
I think its a fantastic little air gun and have had a good few rabbits with it. Great craic just plinking away with it too!

That looks like a nice gun.Did you get it from a dealer or from the above site?

I got it from here,
http://www.tannyokyguns.com/

They have a good range of air guns, close to the border and are well used to dealing with shooters from the South.

Mallards

extremetaz

There's some fine air rifles in the gun list on that website - I'd almost take a spin up for a look around myself.

German pointer

4200fps wrote: »

If it doesn't penetrate through one side of a bean tin atleast at 100yards i'd stay at home. If you want a good one i'd say 40ft/lb is what you need. If its accuracy i recon .177 and get one with a 400cc tank that will go to 230bar. Theres lads on this that would know lots about them but a good air rifle will cost euro600+ and anything below that is the basic enough I recon. You can pay up to 1500euro new for the best out there. A hmr would be cheaper to buy cause all the extra's your going to have to buy if you want real performance is a sight. Air tanks the lot but. Now i could be totally wrong this is all opinion. I looked to get one years ago but could not afford what i wanted. I was going for top shelf

Thanks for that,
I am awaiting licence for new CZ .22 only sent in application last week. Maybe the man with the white beard will bring me one for Christmas:D

German pointer

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

4200fps

Good information. I'm on my work computer at the moment. It won't allow me open the link I want opened. I don't know how in hell I managed to put up the wrong link.sorry

fodda

I can still see the old boy in the gun shop telling me that the BSA Airsporter .22 would take rabbits at 50 yards and the gun i bought the Webly Hawke MK 3 would be almost as good and it had 2 interchangable barrels .177 and .22. Both of these guns were spring powered upto 12ft lbs.

Then i discovered the Weinrach HK 80 and that was a powerfull spring gun.

This man a pure master air rifle hunter who is gone now but made some great hunting videos..... check out his excellent air rifle hunting videos on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKmicWGkzrs

If you want some pre-charged videos for air rifles check out this man for excellent air rifle videos http://www.youtube.com/user/HuntersVermin?ob=0

Some of the best shooting i ever did and wish i could afford one now.

Recoil12

Thanks everyone for the great replies.Just a quick question,will I need a gunsafe for the air rifle or would a trigger lock be sufficient?

German pointer

I would imagine a safe is needed as it is still classed as a rifle.

Witcher

Yeah it's a safe, the trigger lock only applies to a single shotgun.

Recoil12

Thanks,I thought that but as its unrestricted I thought maybe not

4200fps

Well,about the daddy of all daddys this is the correct link i meant to post
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/Daystate/AirWolfMCTTactical.htm
Now there may be better of coarse but i like this one

extremetaz

Now that is a pretty rifle - bloody pricey though! :eek:

Snake_Doctor

Something else to consider - I have an Air Arms S400 in 12 foot pounds moderated -like a mouse farting . I am considering getting a 410 Xtra as its got an adjustable power setting - nice low pressures for plinking but you can turn up the power if needed. my 2c worth.

4200fps

extremetaz wrote: »

Now that is a pretty rifle - bloody pricey though! :eek:

That can hit paintballs no problem at 50 yards so that's how accurate she is. Its my favorite. I was thinking some body would like it too