Young people not buying cars

doopa

Interesting article from the states:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/03/why-dont-young-americans-buy-cars/255001/

Can't say I see the same trend here in Ireland, however some things are still worth commenting on. Changes in planning have resulted in much higher density living in Ireland that means its almost feasible to do without a car now. I reckon you still need a car here but I object to the necessity of it. Some of the measures suggested by the execs in this article are frightening - "techno pink" as a car colour!!!

JerCotter7

Just put an apple badge on the front and they would sell thousands. A lot of people I know are happy to not own a car but would rather an iPhone.

But this isn't affecting Ireland as much I would think. Still rare to find people without a car. Especially in the south west.

piston

Can't say I blame them tbh. I've spent a lifetime being obsessed with cars but in more recent times, I would happily do without mine if I could. It would free up so much cash for other things, motoring is a bottomless money pit. I cycle where I can but sadly there is no such thing as usable public transport in rural Ireland where I live.

dar83

piston wrote: »

Can't say I blame them tbh. I've spent a lifetime being obsessed with cars but in more recent times, I would happily do without mine if I could.

You've obviously been obsessed, but you don't love them...

I technically don't need my car to live my basic life (work and day to day living), but there is no way I would ever sell it, ever. I love driving, I love cars, I can't see any time in my future where I won't own one, even if it's not required for me to function day to day.

I couldn't live without a car simple as that.

piston

dar83 wrote: »

You've obviously been obsessed, but you don't love them...

I technically don't need my car to live my basic life (work and day to day living), but there is no way I would ever sell it, ever. I love driving, I love cars, I can't see any time in my future where I won't own one, even if it's not required for me to function day to day.

I used to think like that, used to go for a drive just for the sake of driving. Now each and every journey involves a course in pothole avoidance, sitting in traffic jams, being careful of the speed limit when I find a bit of pothole free road, the
pain of the ever increasing petrol costs to someone like me on a tight budget, I just increasingly ask why do I bother.

Zubeneschamali

piston wrote: »

Now each and every journey involves a course in pothole avoidance, sitting in traffic jams, being careful of the speed limit when I find a bit of pothole free road, the pain of the ever increasing petrol costs to someone like me on a tight budget, I just increasingly ask why do I bother.

Motoring is much cheaper now than it was when I started (compared to my salary), and the road network is a billion times better.

Plus I can afford much nicer cars.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Motoring is much cheaper now than it was when I started (compared to my salary), and the road network is a billion times better.

Plus I can afford much nicer cars.

Oooo, check out Mr. Moneybags!!

dr.fuzzenstein

piston wrote: »

Can't say I blame them tbh. I've spent a lifetime being obsessed with cars but in more recent times, I would happily do without mine if I could. It would free up so much cash for other things, motoring is a bottomless money pit. I cycle where I can but sadly there is no such thing as usable public transport in rural Ireland where I live.

And that just proves that the motorist is nothing but a convenient and defenseless cashcow.
Argument 1: Just use public transport
Yes I would, I just cycle to my local bus stop and discover that the times and routes are useless.
Argument 2: Just move
Fcuking can't. YOU fcuking buy my house if you're that desperate for me to live in Dublin city center.
Argument 3: Move jobs.
Would love to. Can't. Clare is nothing but a housing estate at this stage.
Argument 4: Buy electric.
Sure thing, boss. Got E30K?

So we could give up the car, we would also have to give up the job, sign on and make money doing nixers.
Hopefully that would keep us just about going until the property tax comes along and then we're proper fcuked.
It's like the government is hellbent on ruining people who dare to use cars, is pursuing a policy of rural de-population (NOT a good thing, Italy and France are suffering badly) and is trying to push as many people to leave the country as possible.
That may even be a good idea.
Get all those useless feckers out and off the dole queues.
Sure isn't emigration a grand thing according to Noonan?

seamus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Motoring is much cheaper now than it was when I started (compared to my salary), and the road network is a billion times better.

Plus I can afford much nicer cars.

You must be in that happy period between "leaving college" and "having children"

There was an interesting concept mentioned by someone on boards a good few months back about the concept of "peak car" which I'd never heard before, but which logically actually made a lot of sense.

Basically it's the idea that as car ownership increases there must come a point that for everyone who doesn't yet own a car, the drawbacks begin to outweight the benefits and cars reach maximum saturation in that area.

Obviously this is dependent on tonnes of factors, not just oil price and "peak car" in one country may be twice the per capita volume of another. The consequence is that if you hit "maximum" saturation, then for newcomers to the market, owning a car no longer becomes an item to tick off the to-do list and car ownership eventually goes into decline.

Whether it pans out or not is another debate altogether, but it appears to have kicked off in the major developed nations already.

piston

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Motoring is much cheaper now than it was when I started (compared to my salary), and the road network is a billion times better.

Plus I can afford much nicer cars.

Not my experience. Motoring is way more expensive in comparison to my salary than it was when I first starting driving 15 years ago. And no, I'm not driving around in a V8 Merc but a humble 1100cc Pug.

Zubeneschamali

seamus wrote: »

You must be in that happy period between "leaving college" and "having children"

When I was in college, no-one had a car, full stop.

Zubeneschamali

piston wrote: »

Not my experience. Motoring is way more expensive in comparison to my salary than it was when I first starting driving 15 years ago. And no, I'm not driving around in a V8 Merc but a humble 1100cc Pug.

Really? How much did insurance cost you in your first year under your own name? I paid north of £1000 a year (pounds!), which was about 10% of my gross salary.

piston

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Really? How much did insurance cost you in your first year under your own name? I paid north of £1000 a year (pounds!), which was about 10% of my gross salary.

Fair point, I drove for a few years on my Dad's insurance, another IR£300 odd on the policy, which is less than I'm paying now. Petrol costs have gone up enormously though.

I do know young fellas paying €4,000 today, which is still a lot of money by anyone standards. Factor in the cost of petrol, and increased maintenance costs as cars become ever more complex and it is definitely more expensive today. (IMO).

Marty McFly

piston wrote: »

Fair point, I drove for a few years on my Dad's insurance, another IR£300 odd on the policy, which is less than I'm paying now. Petrol costs have gone up enormously though.

I do know young fellas paying €4,000 today, which is still a lot of money by anyone standards. Factor in the cost of petrol, and increased maintenance costs as cars become ever more complex and it is definitely more expensive today. (IMO).

I dont know of any young fellas paying 4000 insurance anymore, about ten years ago yes I had friends paying 4000 to insure a 500 Fiesta now no, I work with a few lads around the 20 mark one of them is driving a 2.0 lite diesel his insurance is 1200 and another lad who got a drink driving ban for a year even his insurance is only 1600 and thats with an endorsement.

Eric Cartman

to be fair I think its impacted a certain amount in Ireland too. A lot of young people have taken onboard the 'Ill let somebody else do it for me' or 'meh ill just wait around till something magical happens' attitude to things like getting a job, moving out, getting a driving licence etc...

a lot of young people expect to walk out of college and straight into a job for 45-50k without them even going for an interview.

Its the same with getting a car. If I picked 20 of my friends in their early 20s at random if even 2 of them drove id be surprised, most of them have no interest in driving yet always complain about public transport and call you for lifts everywhere. I got my provisional just after my 17th birthday and had a full licence just before I turned 18. Bought my first car at 18 and never looked back. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of 18-24 year olds I know

Sleepy

And since young lads are probably the most affected group by the current economic situation, many who'd been working since they were 16/17 having to go back to education or being on the dole etc. there'd be a lot more young people who simply can't afford a car these days.

If your on the reduced rate dole as well, you wouldn't even be able to afford to run a small banger like you could on the standard rate if you were prepared to forego nights out, smoking etc.

creedp

Eric Cartman wrote: »

to be fair I think its impacted a certain amount in Ireland too. A lot of young people have taken onboard the 'Ill let somebody else do it for me' or 'meh ill just wait around till something magical happens' attitude to things like getting a job, moving out, getting a driving licence etc...

a lot of young people expect to walk out of college and straight into a job for 45-50k without them even going for an interview.

Its the same with getting a car. If I picked 20 of my friends in their early 20s at random if even 2 of them drove id be surprised, most of them have no interest in driving yet always complain about public transport and call you for lifts everywhere. I got my provisional just after my 17th birthday and had a full licence just before I turned 18. Bought my first car at 18 and never looked back. The same cannot be said for the vast majority of 18-24 year olds I know

For many young people with money/a job the latest fashion trend, ipod, ipad 3, or whatever, restuarants, foreign holidays, the good life in general is important so not leaving a lot of disposable income left for items such as cars. Anyway since they are living at home longer, sure Daddy's car/taxi is a lot cheaper

GaryIrv93

a good few friends of mine have their full licences/provisionals and some even have their own cars at 17/18. I can't help but think they start driving at a young age for the status and popularity that they might get out of it rather than actually needing licences or cars.

piston

Needing and wanting are two different things. Most 17 or 18 year olds around here seem to spend the evenings driving around and around the town for no obvious reason.

Eric Cartman

creedp wrote: »

For many young people with money/a job the latest fashion trend, ipod, ipad 3, or whatever, restuarants, foreign holidays, the good life in general is important so not leaving a lot of disposable income left for items such as cars. Anyway since they are living at home longer, sure Daddy's car/taxi is a lot cheaper

I know, I can understand that , but if your living at home, atleast getting your licence and paying the extra to be on your parents car wouldnt be too much of a stretch

Lord Nikon

I've only had 3 cars since I started driving 20 years old. Since then I've loved driving, and can't imagine not driving.

I drive for a living now, and can rack up an easy 900 miles a week, but I still have enjoyment driving, and listening to my music. Even better when the car is freshly valeted, and the weather is like it is now.

In my early twenties, the epitomy of independence was driving, not so much now though. But if you see young drivers out today, they have a car full of their mates.

I honestly think the gap between those who can afford a car and those who cant will increase, with the economy the way it is today. Whether the are young or old.

Mr Benevolent

I'm on both sides of the same coin at the moment. I started driving a year ago at 31. Never needed a car before as I'm a city dweller, but had to go out and get an NCD before I turned 35, so I bought a runaround from my brother. It was great at first, going to all sorts of places for the laugh, I could pick people up etc, go for the shopping etc etc.

Then the hunger for a nicer, more powerful car came along. Nothing would dissuade me, so I bought a 1.8 Alfa. Nice car, comfortable, handled well etc. But I was ending the month with almost no money and frankly didn't want to admit it to myself. So I decided to get rid of both cars. I'm in the last week of Alfa usage now and can't wait to get 25% of my monthly income back. I'll be still using my girlfriend's car every now and then, but my costs will drop hugely. So, to summarise the pros and cons of car ownership:

Pros:

- Ability to go when and where I want at any time in comfort.
- Can carry large objects in comfort.
- Protected from the elements.

Cons:

- 25% of my income is spent on what is essentially a large toy that spends most of its time unused. Most of that money is spent in the form of tax, duties or other government mandated expense.
- I get far less exercise.
- I only save an hour a day on the commute.

In reality it depends on your situation. If your area has poor public transport links then a car is a necessity. I've realised that cars just don't turn me on nearly as much as women and aircraft, so it's not worth spending the money on them. It's a co-owned Corsa C for me from now on.

dr.fuzzenstein

Confab wrote: »

In reality it depends on your situation. If your area has poor public transport links then a car is a necessity. I've realised that cars just don't turn me on nearly as much as women and aircraft, so it's not worth spending the money on them. It's a co-owned Corsa C for me from now on.

That's going to be quite a step down from an Alfa, I give it two days before you crack!:D

Mr Benevolent

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

That's going to be quite a step down from an Alfa, I give it two days before you crack!:D

Nah I like the Corsa, it's auto, has AC and all the extras, and besides it's nippy and has tiptronic Oh, and a 4 star NCAP, which is much more then can be said of the Alfa.

nice_guy80

I just think the parents have stopped buying cars for their children!!!!

or paying for the insurance!!

heate

Riding around in motor cars will go back to what it was - fun for the rich and the delivery of goods.
With the cost of motoring rising and the increase in taxes and stagnation of income it's just a matter of time.

andyseadog

just for an example.

i'm 21 male and in college and working. always wanted to drive, saved as a young lad, hit the road on my 17th birthday, had the full license before 18. now in my 2.0 diesel vectra, insurance and the cost of the car are now "cheap" tax is the only thing i find hard (€3 per day) if you break it down.

two guys in my class

one 18 : from a "wealthy" background. his parents bought him a mk1 yaris last year for his birthday. are willing to pay all his motoring costs as he has no job. he passed his theory and has gotten a lift to college with a relative every day this year because he has no interest in driving.

another 18 : also working, has taken his theory and passed, taken the compulsory amount of lessons and is sitting his full license a.s.a.p., i'm going to view cars with him over the mid term (i'm told :P). but he fears even on the installment plan he may not be able to afford insurance, hes loooking at installments of around 250 per month.

moral of my story. there is a certain enjoyment and feeling of grown up independence if you earn your own car and sod all if daddy hands it to you.