Do you guys think Barry McGuigan would hold his own in any Featherweight era?

RiseToTheTop

IMO he does. He definitely wasn't a Sky hype product. Or maybe in those days before Sky, British hype product.

eagle eye

Barry was pretty tasty and I think he would hold his own in most eras. He had power and good boxing skills. He beat a great champion in Pedroza and won a couple of other good fights. Epic mistake by his promoter/manager Barney Eastwood to have him fight outdoors in Vegas, that was a huge mistake and he really suffered in that fight, he was never the same after that loss.

I would have loved to see him fight Azumah Nelson, that would have been to decide who was the best in the division of it had happened.

cowzerp

I believe he could have challenged in any era, he really was great and him and Tyson got Me into the sport as a kid.

Would he be champ any era? Not sure but would definetly be worthy of a shot.

Big Ears

Barry himself admitted not too long ago that he feels Azumah Nelson may have got the better of him, and that probably would of been the case but that's not taking anything away from McGuigan, he was a fantastic fighter.

I think he would be a top Featherweight in pretty much any era, would love to see a fight with a prime McGuigan against prime Barrera or Morales, I'd expect the Mexicans to get the better of him but they'd be incredible fights.

walshb

Yes, in his prime he would have been a hell of a scrap for any FW. He was so very strong, conditioned and fit. Heavy hands, wicked body hitter and a good chin. All the traits to be a threat anytime.

terrymccarthy05

HE would not have made the top ten in the 60's and 70's

barney4001

Salvador Chanchez was around in them days i reckon he would have been the greatest feather of all time but was killed in an accident when a young man,he koed Nelson 15th Round

slapbangwallop

terrymccarthy05 wrote: »

HE would not have made the top ten in the 60's and 70's

I genuinely dont believe that.

Lets not forget, whilst his reign at the top was short, the Ring had him at #1 in the division whilst he was WBA champion. He didnt moonwalk into that slot.

The Cruz fight was a fiasco, of epic proportions, and whilst Cruz was a late replacement he had a solid record and McGuigan totally outboxed him for 10 rounds. An Irishman shouldnt be fighting in those conditions. Simple. Legend in my book.

barney4001

slapbangwallop wrote: »

I genuinely dont believe that.

Lets not forget, whilst his reign at the top was short, the Ring had him at #1 in the division whilst he was WBA champion. He didnt moonwalk into that slot.

The Cruz fight was a fiasco, of epic proportions, and whilst Cruz was a late replacement he had a solid record and McGuigan totally outboxed him for 10 rounds. An Irishman shouldnt be fighting in those conditions. Simple. Legend in my book.

His mother said the same words to me after the fight,had it been a 12 rounder Barry was home and dried.

In fact i think this was among the last 15 round world title fights at that time

walshb

barney4001 wrote: »

His mother said the same words to me after the fight,had it been a 12 rounder Barry was home and dried.

In fact i think this was among the last 15 round world title fights at that time

Not only that, Barry was suffering badly from the early rds till the end. The heat was that intense that it really affected his power too. He was banging Cruz consistently but the punches lacked the power due to Barry struggling badly with that insane heat. Cruz on the other hand was a desert man, dark skinned and brought up training in those conditions. Talk about handicapping a fighter.

MMAIRELANDFAN

I'm too young to remember Mcguigan the boxer but my Father said he was truly world class and could handle any generation of fighter

terrymccarthy05

eagle eye wrote: »

Barry was pretty tasty and I think he would hold his own in most eras. He had power and good boxing skills. He beat a great champion in Pedroza and won a couple of other good fights. Epic mistake by his promoter/manager Barney Eastwood to have him fight outdoors in Vegas, that was a huge mistake and he really suffered in that fight, he was never the same after that loss.

I would have loved to see him fight Azumah Nelson, that would have been to decide who was the best in the division of it had happened.

Who was the other big fights. Pedroza was over the hill and Barry was his biggest pay-day ever.

slapbangwallop

terrymccarthy05 wrote: »

Who was the other big fights. Pedroza was over the hill and Barry was his biggest pay-day ever.

Laporte and Taylor were massive fights.

A lot is made of Pedroza being "over the hill". Thats exaggerated in my opinion. The man was the #1 rated FW by the Ring at the time, he was unbeaten in ten years and he was still holding his own in the ring 8 years later.

walshb

terrymccarthy05 wrote: »

Who was the other big fights. Pedroza was over the hill and Barry was his biggest pay-day ever.

He was on the slide, but 32, not 52, and Barry dominated and won convincingly. Not like he eeked out a win. Would a 28 or 29 year old Pedroaza have been a far far tougher match? Tougher, yes, but Barry would still pose serious problems and can still beat the best Pedroza. Pedroza was considered a great great champion.

terrymccarthy05

slapbangwallop wrote: »

Laporte and Taylor were massive fights.

A lot is made of Pedroza being "over the hill". Thats exaggerated in my opinion. The man was the #1 rated FW by the Ring at the time, he was unbeaten in ten years and he was still holding his own in the ring 8 years later.

Laporte and Taylor were run of the mill fighters and there was talk of him not trying Pedroza.

barney4001

slapbangwallop wrote: »

I genuinely dont believe that.

Lets not forget, whilst his reign at the top was short, the Ring had him at #1 in the division whilst he was WBA champion. He didnt moonwalk into that slot.

The Cruz fight was a fiasco, of epic proportions, and whilst Cruz was a late replacement he had a solid record and McGuigan totally outboxed him for 10 rounds. An Irishman shouldnt be fighting in those conditions. Simple. Legend in my book.

I think McGuigan would have made top ten in any era he was always super fit no drink or drug problems either,i have my own opinions as to why he lost his world title,i do know ringside betting odds tumbled on barry from 1/7 1/8 to 1/3 by fight time so who was betting against him i ask you

cowzerp

barney4001 wrote: »

I think McGuigan would have made top ten in any era he was always super fit no drink or drug problems either,i have my own opinions as to why he lost his world title,i do know ringside betting odds tumbled on barry from 1/7 1/8 to 1/3 by fight time so who was betting against him i ask you

His own manager owned a betting shop didn't he?

And he stood to lose a fortune if Barry won i heard.

megadodge

terrymccarthy05 wrote: »

Laporte and Taylor were run of the mill fighters and there was talk of him not trying Pedroza.

LaPorte was a legit world champion only one year before he fought Barry. Nearly two years AFTER that he gave the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez a tremendous fight at super-feather (one weight up), losing by only ONE POINT on two judges scorecards.

Taylor after a brilliant amateur career was still unbeaten in 34 fights when Barry beat him. The only blemish on his career before that was a 15 round draw with a peak Pedroza - one of the all-time great featherweight champions.

"Run of the mill"???? I think not.

As for "there was talk of him not trying Pedroza"! What exactly does that mean?
Especially when he DID fight him.

Seems to me like you have a personal dislike for Barry, which is you own business, but that should have nothing to do with his ability and standing as a boxer.

section4

megadodge wrote: »

LaPorte was a legit world champion only one year before he fought Barry. Nearly two years AFTER that he gave the legendary Julio Cesar Chavez a tremendous fight at super-feather (one weight up), losing by only ONE POINT on two judges scorecards.

Taylor after a brilliant amateur career was still unbeaten in 34 fights when Barry beat him. The only blemish on his career before that was a 15 round draw with a peak Pedroza - one of the all-time great featherweight champions.

"Run of the mill"???? I think not.

As for "there was talk of him not trying Pedroza"! What exactly does that mean?
Especially when he DID fight him.

Seems to me like you have a personal dislike for Barry, which is you own business, but that should have nothing to do with his ability and standing as a boxer.

McGuigan was well matched and had money behind him, he would never have gotten pedroza to come to London otherwise, Pedroza was well over the hill and a peak pedroza would have beaten mcguigan, of that i have no doubt.
McGuigan never foiught guys who had any kind of serious punching power, he was always matched aginst guys who did not have a substantial punch, ala Taylor Pedroza Laporte etc. he was beaten by a guy in cruz who he was supposed to beat, but unfortunately for Barry Cruz had hunger unlike Taylor and laporte and he was prepared to hit Barry back, hard and often which is something Barry never liked. Nelson would have toyed with mcguigan, as soon as he hit barry hard that would have been it. Barry picked his fights, he never fought villasana esperagozza and many other fighters. Good fighter but blown out of all proportion on this forum.

walshb

section4 wrote: »

Cruz had hunger unlike Taylor and laporte and he was prepared to hit Barry back, hard and often which is something Barry never liked. Nelson would have toyed with mcguigan, .

Seriously, read over that line I highlighted. I can't get my head around that at all.

It's as if it was Barry's first fight where the opponent tried, threw punches, landed punches etc.

Go watch the LaPorte fight. That was a hell of a tough scrap for Barry against a better fighter than Cruz. Not a tougher fight than Cruz, for obvious reasons.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Seriously, read over that line I highlighted. I can't get my head around that at all.

It's as if it was Barry's first fight where the opponent tried, threw punches, landed punches etc.

Go watch the LaPorte fight. That was a hell of a tough scrap for Barry against a better fighter than Cruz.

+1 on that

walshb

Cruz did have hunger, but also, he had the right environment to keep that hunger going for 15 rds. Desert heat. Also, many had Barry winning that fight. Had that been in a fair environment for both, conditions that are suited to both, then I have little doubt that Barry wins inside the distance.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Cruz did have hunger, but also, he had the right environment to keep that hunger going for 15 rds. Desert heat. Also, many had Barry winning that fight. Had that been in a fair environment for both, conditions that are suited to both, then I have little doubt that Barry wins inside the distance.

And most would be in agreement with that assesment Bren

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

And most would be in agreement with that assesment Bren

Indeed. Paul, I have never seen a greater display of hearts and guts and courage as what I saw from Barry in that fight. He was close to death. That is how tough it was and how horrid the conditions were for a pasty Irishman in Las Vegas Summer heat. The action and workrate were insane.

barney4001

cowzerp wrote: »

His own manager owned a betting shop didn't he?

And he stood to lose a fortune if Barry won i heard.

spot on
heard Eastwoods was in receivership ,maybe a rumour though

barney4001

i always had the opinion that had the fight have been 2 or 3 hours earlier or later Barry would have won it

section4

walshb wrote: »

Seriously, read over that line I highlighted. I can't get my head around that at all.

It's as if it was Barry's first fight where the opponent tried, threw punches, landed punches etc.

Go watch the LaPorte fight. That was a hell of a tough scrap for Barry against a better fighter than Cruz. Not a tougher fight than Cruz, for obvious reasons.

I watched all barry mcguigans fights, and i stand by what i say, show me one fight where he fought a top level guy who could punch and had a knockout percentage over 50% , the answer is none, he was kept away from anyone who could hit, because did not like getting hit hard, he was not a great fighter who could go toe to toe with some one of equal power at top level, he avoided fighter and eastwood used his money to ensure he could get the right fights against less dangerous opponents with aname ala taylor who could not punch his way out of a paper bag and mcguigan and eastwood knew this as i did at the time, i could see the pattern.
and la porte who had been beat 5 TIMES before he fought McGuigan and so therefore was not what you would call a great fighter, good yes, like mcguigan but not great.
What top level fighter apart from these who was dangerous did he fight, none. he was protected..
Cruz also had less than 50% knockout percentage and was not a puncher, Cruz was stopped in the 12th 7 months after beating McGuigan by esparaqgozza.

McGuigan was lucky to be world champion and you certainly had to watch who you put him in with.

barney4001

section4 wrote: »

I watched all barry mcguigans fights, and i stand by what i say, show me one fight where he fought a top level guy who could punch and had a knockout percentage over 50% , the answer is none, he was kept away from anyone who could hit, because did not like getting hit hard, he was not a great fighter who could go toe to toe with some one of equal power at top level, he avoided fighter and eastwood used his money to ensure he could get the right fights against less dangerous opponents with aname ala taylor who could not punch his way out of a paper bag and mcguigan and eastwood knew this as i did at the time, i could see the pattern.
and la porte who had been beat 5 TIMES before he fought McGuigan and so therefore was not what you would call a great fighter, good yes, like mcguigan but not great.
What top level fighter apart from these who was dangerous did he fight, none. he was protected..
Cruz also had less than 50% knockout percentage and was not a puncher, Cruz was stopped in the 12th 7 months after beating McGuigan by esparaqgozza.

McGuigan was lucky to be world champion and you certainly had to watch lvador Sanchezwho you put him in with.

Looking back at Laporte's record he lost decisions against Pedrosa Sanchez Nelson and Chavez so he was very far from being an ordinary Joe

section4

barney4001 wrote: »

Looking back at Laporte's record he lost decisions against Pedrosa Sanchez Nelson and Chavez so he was very far from being an ordinary Joe

yes thats correct, but he was just the type of fighter to make mcguigan look good, not dangerous but a name who never realy done the business when it mattered and the edge off his ambition when he fought mcguigan, not an ordinary joe, very good just like mcguigan for the period but not the best and certainly in terms of any era, just ordinary.

barney4001

Laporte won and defended the wbc world title a few times as well

walshb

Who should Barry have fought in '84-'86 to satisfy you?

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Who should Barry have fought in '84-'86 to satisfy you?

Tyson!

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Tyson!

C'mon, Tyson was only a kid in '84!:)

section4

walshb wrote: »

C'mon, Tyson was only a kid in '84!:)

but he could punch so there is no way barry would fight him, why change the habit of a life time

walshb

section4 wrote: »

but he could punch so there is no way barry would fight him, why change the habit of a life time

Well, who did Barry avoid? Nelson may be one, but who else?

section4

walshb wrote: »

Well, who did Barry avoid? Nelson may be one, but who else?

Nelson esparagozza villasana off the top of my head and any top ten fighter with a punch at the time.

what top level fighter fight he fight that was a puncher, none, it was safety first all the way.

barney4001

cowzerp wrote: »

Tyson!

Pat Cowdell a very classy boxer who went to a split decision with Salvador Chancez he was well on the slide when he fought Nelson


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVgantmh564&feature=relmfu