Is this a discriminatory job ad?

Postgrad10

Was looking through the different jobs advertised and came across this :

http://www.indeed.ie/m/viewjob?jk=1e70c2bd1a2cec82

Not that I'm qualified and want to apply.
It states that applicants " Please note that individuals who lived outside the Island of Ireland for 2 or more continuous years within the last 5 years are not eligible for programmes that provide access to children and/or vulnerable adults".

Surely if applicants obtain vetting from the country they lived in prior and recent vetting from Ireland, they should be acceptable for working with children . Is this discriminatory ? I know I can get Irish vetting for secondary teaching and this is accepted by other countries , why not the same in this instance ?

Mr. Loverman

No, the rules for discrimination in Ireland are as follows:

"Under the equality legislation discrimination based on any one of 9 distinct grounds is unlawful. These grounds are:

Gender
Civil status
Family status
Sexual orientation
Religion
Age (does not apply to a person under 16)
Disability
Race
Membership of the Traveller community."

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/equality_in_work/equality_authority.html

You can probably still get a job as a scout leader though. (Bad joke, sorry).

Postgrad10

Not for me but I think of a few friends who'd be qualified this and doesn't seem fair .

Mrs OBumble

Well, yes, it is discriminatory.

BUT it's discriminating on a criteria that the are allowed to apply (like fatness, ugliness, baldness, living in the wrong neighbourhood, not knowing anyone who works in the company, etc).

So anti-discrimination legislation doesn't apply, at least on the surface.

Personally I have a theory that this is actually a more-subtle form of discrimination on the basis of ethnicity - but proving it would be legally challenging, and I've better things to do with my time and dosh.

It's also been happening for years: for whatever reasons the garda either don't or won't process applications from people who've been outside RoI for more than 2 or the last 5 years.

OR maybe it's just certain employing agencies who don't want these people (ones with "foreign" ideas): A friend was told that she wasn't able to volunteer for a certain charity that work with children, ever, because she lived in the UK years ago. Funnily enough, it didn't bother the creche she worked at later - and yes got her vetted, no problems.

All in all, we cannot tell. But it is an issue for some people, eg nurses, threapists etc who've trained at universities in the UK, but cannot get jobs here 'til they've been back a year or two because of it.

endabob1

Isn't it all to do with getting garda clearance, to prove that you're not a danger working with kids etc...
I suspect if you challenged it while having clearance certificates from another EU country they'd have a problem.

sambuka41

Thats a FAS decision of recent, because the Garda vetting wont look outside of Ireland and I'd imagine FAS don't want to take the risk placing someone with children or vulnerable adults when they can't say for sure that they are not a risk.

Not that Garda vetting says much, you could have had Ted Bundy working for you before he was caught (incidentally he did volunteer on a suicide prevention hotline the same time as he was murdering women) I agree that no risks should be taken when hiring staff in this way but they seriously need to look at the vetting we do here. In this day and age with people needing to leave the country for work reasons there has to be some kind of a checking procedure in place if they return, or if they are not Irish and want to work here.

We will be losing on some well qualified people as a result of this (if it was rolled out beyond FAS). But I can see why organisations must be careful.

Mrs OBumble

Absolutely correct that it's to do with garda clearance.

But this is not recent, some of the non-profit agencies have been doing it for at least 4 years.

Maybe FAS have recently started applying it themselves too, or (more likely) you're just now seeing for those non-profit agencies looking for CE workers.

sambuka41

JustMary wrote: »

But this is not recent, some of the non-profit agencies have been doing it for at least 4 years.

Maybe FAS have recently started applying it themselves too, or (more likely) you're just now seeing for those non-profit agencies looking for CE workers.

I work for a not for profit, the CE supervisor in our place got the word from head office about this in January. I'd say your right in that maybe only now they are applying what was always supposed to be happening.

I've worked in a couple of non-profit organisations and it's never been an issue before, it's still not applied in my current place for directly employed staff. Most staff coming to us who have lived outside Ireland have brought a police cert from the country to cover their time there (this week I've seen one from Canada and UK) Very organised people!!:)

donkey balls

I have had the vetting done around three times due to the nature of the work I done,Recently on a course that I completed there was foreign nationals on the course both from within the EU and futher a field and they got the clearance done with no trouble.
Yet I'm still waiting on mine three months after applying for it:mad:.