St James Gate Craft Beers from the 90s?

Martyn1989

Then known as Guinness Ireland Group test marketed a range of 4 beers (a pilsner, a wheat beer, a dark lager and a red ale?) from 1997 until ?

Even though they where quite successful they apperently wern't capable of providing profit margins required by Guinness.

I was wondering does anyone remember where they any good?

BaZmO*

The Wheat Beer was called Breo. I wasn't into my beer as much as I am now, but I really liked it at the time. It didn't last long though.



Don't remember any of the others

Martyn1989

I think Breo was a seperate marketing/product launch failure from GIG.

These four beers all went under the brand 'St James Gate Beers' and according to wikipedia was a seperate product but they dont give dates.

The wheat beer was called 'Wildcat Wheat'. (that said they could have been the exact same beer)

Seemingly GIG put these beers into 20 Dublin pubs, all four beers side by side, a year later they dropped 2, renamed 1 and added a new one then dropped the lot a couple of months later.

BaZmO*

Hmmm, interesting. I'm sure Beernut will know the dealio with these beers so.

BeerNut

I thought they were pretty good.


"Pilsner Gold" is the one missing from the picture, taken in Fitzpatrick's, near Carlingford, a couple of years ago.

Breó definitely came later and I wouldn't be at all sure it was a straight re-badge of Wildcat.

Here's an article on the launch from the Indo.

Martyn1989

In an old article I found from Licensing World (Nov,1997) they said the 'installation of a smaller more flexible brewing system' cost GIG £750,000.
Tony Brophy (head of R&D of GIG at the time) said "We've not carried out extensive market research, so we're going to test market in 20 Dublin pubs"

They then go on to say that the 'taste beer' category only accounts for 0.5% of beer sales, in 2010 craft beer was allegedly worth 0.1%? (got that from datamonitor or mintel Im not bothered checking). Anyone know what the story is there, Im presuming gross miscalculation back in 1997?

Then in Licensing World (Sept, 1998) they reported that the whole plan was being dropped due to insufficient take up, Pat Barry (Director of Corperate Affairs, GIG) said 'Consumers where positive, thought the product was excellant, there is a market for these beers but it will not generate sales required by GIG'

A business studies teacher I had in school used to use Breo as an example of the worst market research ever carried out. He talked about it like it was a massive flop that cost GIG millions. Maybe he just didn't like wheat beer :rolleyes:

Bigcheeze

Martyn1989 wrote: »

They then go on to say that the 'taste beer' category only accounts for 0.5% of beer sales, in 2010 craft beer was allegedly worth 0.1%? (got that from datamonitor or mintel Im not bothered checking). Anyone know what the story is there, Im presuming gross miscalculation back in 1997?

Probably different definitions of Taste and Craft. Nothing produced by Diageo would normally be classified as craft due to their size but in theory they could produce something with taste.

Amusing that Guinness were openly using the term "taste beer".

Martyn1989

Diageo reckon their one of the few who can make a craft product http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75313345&postcount=189

I think the term craft beer tends to be used quite losely on occasion, leaving no exact definition. I certainly don't like the sound of a taste beer though, surely they could have come up with something better.

BeerNut

Bigcheeze wrote: »

in theory they could produce something with taste.

In practice they do: Guinness Foreign Extra and Special Export are, IMO, two of the best beers produced in this country.

poitinstill

I drank the Breo a fair bit when it as out....if memory serves me right it was a bland enough sweet beer. Maybe along the lines og the graffenwalder weiss sold in lidl. At the time i used drink it as the glass was nice...checked through my enormous glass collection but have none...

loyatemu

the marketing for Breo was hopeless, a lot of people thought it was "white guinness" - I quite liked it but in those days the choice of beers on tap was very limited.

BaZmO*

loyatemu wrote: »

the marketing for Breo was hopeless, a lot of people thought it was "white guinness"

In fairness though, most people would probably think the same if it was released today.

Martyn1989

loyatemu wrote: »

the marketing for Breo was hopeless, a lot of people thought it was "white guinness" - I quite liked it but in those days the choice of beers on tap was very limited.

The business studies teacher I had in 6th year had us using it as an example of poor market research, according to him when they where doing the product testing they focused on lager drinkers and asked them 'would you drink this product?' to which the answer was was almost 100% yes, apperently the correct question to ask would be 'would you drink this product instead of what you currently drink?' to which they found out on release the answer was no. Due to that mistake, apperently, GIG lost millions.

I realise how unfathomable that sounds but thats what he told us, make what you want of it.

The Durham Brewery from the UK are currently marketing a beer as a white stout based on the premise that stout means 'strong' and 'robust' and there beer is,apperently both those things, I still don't want to taste it though.

BeerNut

Martyn1989 wrote: »

I realise how unfathomable that sounds but thats what he told us, make what you want of it.

By what's I'm sure a stunning coincidence, Diageo told me last year that Smithwick's Pale Ale is targetted at lager drinkers.

evercloserunion

Messrs brew a wheat beer called "Oscar Wildecat" or something similar, I had wondered where they got the name, I guess it's a reference to this. Interesting.

BeerNut

It's a rebadge of MM Weiss for TCD. Oscar Wilde went to TCD. I'd say it's just a coincidence.

Martyn1989

BeerNut wrote: »

It's a rebadge of MM Weiss for TCD. Oscar Wilde went to TCD. I'd say it's just a coincidence.

The Pav Bar has the MM Pale Ale at the moment for €3 something a pint (in a plastic cup). I was enjoying it in the sun. I felt sorry for the 99% around me who where drinking Bavaria and Druids.

Ted Mosby

The Red was absolutely lovely. I worked in Ranelagh at that point and McSorleys had it.

It seems to me that it was a reaction by Guinness to a handful of craft beers that were on the market at that time, I imagine that when they found that providing cheap Smithwicks to the pubs selling the crafts didn't work that they tried St James Gate as a spoiler.

Youngxxi

poitinstill wrote: »

I drank the Breo a fair bit when it as out....if memory serves me right it was a bland enough sweet beer. Maybe along the lines og the graffenwalder weiss sold in lidl. At the time i used drink it as the glass was nice...checked through my enormous glass collection but have none...

I've just found a half pint Bero glass when clearing stuff out, wondered how rare it'll be?!