To squeeze or not to squeeze

20silkcut

We are currently at loggerheads here at home over what to do with 20 bought in fresian bull calves. I am in favour of the 16 month finishing system with a slightly lower carcass value. The 24 month steer is just too long for me right now. There is the 18 month un-squeezed option with 4 months grazing in the second year but that really sounds dangerous and you would need to be on top of your game.
How much of a bull head would a 16 month finisher have? The facilities would not be the best at home. 56 bay cubicle house(seen better days) with adjacent open slurry pit so would have to be scraped daily.

Am I better off squeezing them?

Farmer Pudsey

Very hard to make money out of 16-20 month fresian bulls however there will be a sh**load of cattle finished next winter. If you can split them into 2-3 bunches and keep them apart 2 kg's on grass from the start of june until mid august 5-6 kgs until mid october on grass and then kill will be a bit bare but factory's may be short then when you house the costs shoot up

Grecco

Very hard to finish friesians @ less than 24 months, its just too costly for a start. I`d sqeeze them and sell them off as stores @ 18 - 24 months

blue5000

Talk to a couple of factories near you, see what grades/ cw they want at 16, 18 month. I think they are trying to get more bulls killed at lower weights. Another option is to get them to 400kg as a bull ASAP and let someone else finish them.

20silkcut

That's what I was wondering are fresian bulls the bubbliest part of the current cattle bubble? Are they the overpriced 2 bed shoebox apartment? Will there be a flood of them finished at factory doors in early 2013?
Is it logical to say that when the bust comes fresian bulls will be hit hardest?

blue5000

20silkcut wrote: »

That's what I was wondering are fresian bulls the bubbliest part of the current cattle bubble? Are they the overpriced 2 bed shoebox apartment? Will there be a flood of them finished at factory doors in early 2013?
Is it logical to say that when the bust comes fresian bulls will be hit hardest?

Hard to say, if the recession lasts ppl will stay buying plainer cuts of meat, this I think is what has cows at such a good price now. If the market weakens cull cows will fall first. How old are your bulls now?

Farmer Pudsey

20silkcut wrote: »

That's what I was wondering are fresian bulls the bubbliest part of the current cattle bubble? Are they the overpriced 2 bed shoebox apartment? Will there be a flood of them finished at factory doors in early 2013?
Is it logical to say that when the bust comes fresian bulls will be hit hardest?

The Factory bosses are licking their chops waiting for next Christmas there are managing to keep a lid on the cattle price and we are only killing 25000 a week what will it be like next January/February if the kill is over 30000 a week. It will not matter what you have the fancier the Animal the bigger the Fall. They will penalise overweight, overage, any cattle not born in Ireland. If you have bulls they will want bullocks, if you have bullocks they will want heifers, If you have heifers they will want cows and if you have cows they will want bulls it won't matter what the f##k you have

PatQfarmer

Grecco wrote: »

Very hard to finish friesians @ less than 24 months, its just too costly for a start. I`d sqeeze them and sell them off as stores @ 18 - 24 months

Agree. We debated what to do with AA bull weanlings(bucket-reared) and in the end squeezed them. For handling primarily, but also because there are far fewer bullocks around atm, most being left as bulls.
Older farmer buyers will prefer bullocks in the Autumn or next Spring...well that's the theory anyway:rolleyes:

Bodacious

have two black lim x bull calves well 11 months now and they average quality but doing well on creep last two weeks , they twins but still nice cattle they going to a weanling sale in 2 weeks.. I haven't squeezed them and buddy of mine reckons this evening that I should have squeezed them.. what ye reckon?


weanling sale (I know they are 11 months) but most lads looking for west of Ireland weanlings would do their own squeezing


ill have spring born ch x bulls coming out in a months time and I wouldn't dream of squeezing them like but not sure on these 2 gents!

Farmer Pudsey

Bodacious wrote: »

have two black lim x bull calves well 11 months now and they average quality but doing well on creep last two weeks , they twins but still nice cattle they going to a weanling sale in 2 weeks.. I haven't squeezed them and buddy of mine reckons this evening that I should have squeezed them.. what ye reckon?


weanling sale (I know they are 11 months) but most lads looking for west of Ireland weanlings would do their own squeezing


ill have spring born ch x bulls coming out in a months time and I wouldn't dream of squeezing them like but not sure on these 2 gents!

What weight are they, it is weight more so than age that has biggest impact om squeezing

freedominacup

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What weight are they, it is weight more so than age that has biggest impact om squeezing

I'd listen to him bod. See post a couple above yours. Pudsey usually has it nailed.

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

I'd listen to him bod. See post a couple above yours. Pudsey usually has it nailed.

F@@K I had forgotten I had posted that.

Bodacious

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What weight are they, it is weight more so than age that has biggest impact om squeezing

Pudsey, they be 380/390kg at the moment and sept 29th 13.. they twins but piling on the weight at the moment.. whats the crack only the heaviest of bull weanlings getting finished @16 months

tanko

Bodacious wrote: »

Pudsey, they be 380/390kg at the moment and sept 29th 13.. they twins but piling on the weight at the moment.. whats the crack only the heaviest of bull weanlings getting finished @16 months

From watching the board in the marts I often wonder what 16 months old means anymore. Some lads seem to have serious trouble finding calves hiding in the rushes for several months after they're born.:rolleyes:

Farmer Pudsey

Bodacious wrote: »

Pudsey, they be 380/390kg at the moment and sept 29th 13.. they twins but piling on the weight at the moment.. whats the crack only the heaviest of bull weanlings getting finished @16 months

I be slow to squeeze. On grass and 2kgs at present they will pile on at least 1kg/day over next 60 days outside. If you are selling at 450kgs they are attractive to finishers.

If you intend to keep I forget about 16 months finish I think they are too light to get to that. House as late as possible and feed at 2-3kgs when housed until mid February. Then feed for 90 days at 6 building to 9-10kgs at end. They will sure kill well over 360 kgs. Wheather it will pay you is another issue.

blue5000

Just wondering how you got on after silkcut? Pudsey you were bang on about the fr bulls, care to get the crystal ball out for this winter?

Willfarman

Similar situation to yourself. I squeezed the smaller lads and the narrower
Lads to hedge my bets.

20silkcut

blue5000 wrote: »

Just wondering how you got on after silkcut? Pudsey you were bang on about the fr bulls, care to get the crystal ball out for this winter?

I left them un squeeze and sold those very average Fr bull calves for 660 euro per head they had an average weight of 350 kg . That was in feb 2013 just before the fodder crisis really kicked in and the cattle bubble was still in full swing. I'd say the farmer that bought them off me made nothing on them.

TITANIUM.

tanko wrote: »

From watching the board in the marts I often wonder what 16 months old means anymore. Some lads seem to have serious trouble finding calves hiding in the rushes for several months after they're born.:rolleyes:

Doubt its several months in fairness.
And there dead right to give um a month or 6 weeks head start.

Bodacious

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I be slow to squeeze. On grass and 2kgs at present they will pile on at least 1kg/day over next 60 days outside. If you are selling at 450kgs they are attractive to finishers.

If you intend to keep I forget about 16 months finish I think they are too light to get to that. House as late as possible and feed at 2-3kgs when housed until mid February. Then feed for 90 days at 6 building to 9-10kgs at end. They will sure kill well over 360 kgs. Wheather it will pay you is another issue.

I left them be .. Ie didn't squeeze them .. Worst case scenario if I don't get enough for them I'll take them home and squeeze them as wouldn't put up with the hassle of bulls around !

They doing well now and eating like hell so I'll let ye know how I get on

Willfarman

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The Factory bosses are licking their chops waiting for next Christmas there are managing to keep a lid on the cattle price and we are only killing 25000 a week what will it be like next January/February if the kill is over 30000 a week. It will not matter what you have the fancier the Animal the bigger the Fall. They will penalise overweight, overage, any cattle not born in Ireland. If you have bulls they will want bullocks, if you have bullocks they will want heifers, If you have heifers they will want cows and if you have cows they will want bulls it won't matter what the f##k you have

It was Christmas 12 months before they found the lid!

tanko

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Doubt its several months in fairness.
And there dead right to give um a month or 6 weeks head start.

Yeah, I agree with you. The 30 month rule is a pile of crap imo.

Bodacious

Bodacious wrote: »

I left them be .. Ie didn't squeeze them .. Worst case scenario if I don't get enough for them I'll take them home and squeeze them as wouldn't put up with the hassle of bulls around !

They doing well now and eating like hell so I'll let ye know how I get on

Sold them twins today e930 380kg, E870 , 396kg (smaller twin born but was stockier but other lad looked like he'd have a bigger frame ) E60 between them !

Bought e300, sold e1,800 !

epfff

Bodacious wrote: »

Sold them twins today e930 380kg, E870 , 396kg (smaller twin born but was stockier but other lad looked like he'd have a bigger frame ) E60 between them !

Bought e300, sold e1,800 !

Nice touch
Did you do a tot on dirrect costs

TUBBY

Bodacious wrote: »

Sold them twins today e930 380kg, E870 , 396kg (smaller twin born but was stockier but other lad looked like he'd have a bigger frame ) E60 between them !

Bought e300, sold e1,800 !

you should start a making money in beef thread bod...
fair play that is great turn on two cattle.

Willfarman

Bodacious wrote: »

Sold them twins today e930 380kg, E870 , 396kg (smaller twin born but was stockier but other lad looked like he'd have a bigger frame ) E60 between them !

Bought e300, sold e1,800 !

Well done. The next lad will be up against it to have any twist out of them..

Bodacious

TUBBY wrote: »

you should start a making money in beef thread bod...
fair play that is great turn on two cattle.

Ye going to make me put up the dockets now too!?

My scanner is working!!

Not sure what they ate meal wise to be honest but it wasn't huge .. I had to pay for tb test on them as calves as yer man let them go over 6 weeks prior to movement and I had to feed the little Freisan for the winter .. But they were all outwintered and I had a little strip wire place for the 2 lads to go in under and eat a bit !

Miname

Sold a bunch of march and early april bulls today. The lighter the better seems to be the order of the day, they made as much as the earlier lads id sold and were on average 180kg behind. I still cant figure out whats going on.

tanko

Miname wrote: »

Sold a bunch of march and early april bulls today. The lighter the better seems to be the order of the day, they made as much as the earlier lads id sold and were on average 180kg behind. I still cant figure out whats going on.

When did you sell the earlier ones? I'm just back from the show and sale in cootehill of 300 bulls and it was the same story there. Calves 290 to 330kgs are most in demand. Heavier calves are making more money but not enough more to justify the extra meal they have eaten and time they have been kept. Prices have risen in the last month also.

sandydan

Miname wrote: »

Sold a bunch of march and early april bulls today. The lighter the better seems to be the order of the day, they made as much as the earlier lads id sold and were on average 180kg behind. I still cant figure out whats going on.

ive said several times this year in Skibbereen 340-400kg in most breeds bar fr are making more +kg than comparable in over 550 kg weight brackets. have you seen the farmers journal link from ploughing posted by someone( maybe on Beef in crisis thread) . the advice given is similar, sell at 400kg ish as export to Italy for lim and finisher looking for good spec Ch to finish in big lots with good bargaining power dealing with mill etc is keeping the floor under price at that weight

Reggie.

Miname wrote: »

Sold a bunch of march and early april bulls today. The lighter the better seems to be the order of the day, they made as much as the earlier lads id sold and were on average 180kg behind. I still cant figure out whats going on.

A few CH calves born in march this year. Weighted 205kg. Went for €690 in the mart.

Two AA Jan 13. Weighted 377kg. Went for €870

TUBBY

Reggie. wrote: »

A few CH calves born in march this year. Weighted 205kg. Went for €690 in the mart.

Two AA Jan 13. Weighted 377kg. Went for €870

Reggie. That a serious price for the angus. Have few round 450 to mart myself rather than house. What mart did ya get that. Must have been good few buyers.

Reggie.

TUBBY wrote: »

Reggie. That a serious price for the angus. Have few round 450 to mart myself rather than house. What mart did ya get that. Must have been good few buyers.

I wasn't selling...Unfortunately. just checking prices. Full of buyers and standing room only. It was Delvin mart. Going to tullamore with 3 or 4 on thursday

Miname

tanko wrote: »

When did you sell the earlier ones? I'm just back from the show and sale in cootehill of 300 bulls and it was the same story there. Calves 290 to 330kgs are most in demand. Heavier calves are making more money but not enough more to justify the extra meal they have eaten and time they have been kept. Prices have risen in the last month also.

Over the last few months, a couple here and a couple there sort of situation. I was pretty impressed with cootehill from a sellers point of view, very organised and the auctioneer was grand to deal with, no pressurising or thats all their worth muck. I thought heifers were reasonable enough down there.

Miname

sandydan wrote: »

ive said several times this year in Skibbereen 340-400kg in most breeds bar fr are making more +kg than comparable in over 550 kg weight brackets. have you seen the farmers journal link from ploughing posted by someone( maybe on Beef in crisis thread) . the advice given is similar, sell at 400kg ish as export to Italy for lim and finisher looking for good spec Ch to finish in big lots with good bargaining power dealing with mill etc is keeping the floor under price at that weight

i wouldnt even say 400kg, ive been noticing the 250-300kg are just mad, from what im seeing 400kg and 300kg theres very little difference in the overall price. i think people put too much weight on price per kilo, from a sellers pint of view i know what i need to get for an animal to cover itself and hopefully leave something so i usually try to aim for that.

Farmer Pudsey

sandydan wrote: »

ive said several times this year in Skibbereen 340-400kg in most breeds bar fr are making more +kg than comparable in over 550 kg weight brackets. have you seen the farmers journal link from ploughing posted by someone( maybe on Beef in crisis thread) . the advice given is similar, sell at 400kg ish as export to Italy for lim and finisher looking for good spec Ch to finish in big lots with good bargaining power dealing with mill etc is keeping the floor under price at that weight

Have a friend that has sucklers, used to finish the bulls at 18-24 months or sell at 18 months. However I he have been trying to get accross to him that he is better selling sub 400kgs. These bulls make 2.5+/kg in general. Cannot understand the money that is paid for 300ish weanlings. If you are putting on weight to sell at a euro/kg or a bit with it you are at nothing.

I am not sure what is keeping the floor under these lighter weanlings.Hard to see finishers doing it. No matter how good you are to deal with Mills etc they still work on a margin. Take a good quality weanling and finish him sub 16 months if he averages 360kgs DW( yes there are ones that average more but general run of the mill) at 4/kg he will make 1400euro, at 4.5/kg he will make 1575. We have not been near 4/kg for 12 months now. Even squeezing and killing at 370kgs as a bullock leaves figures that are not dissimilar.

If some one is paying 3/kg for good quality weanlings at 350kgs for the Irish finishing market he is at a hiding to nothing. Have not been in a mart for a while so I am unsure of quality of weanling that is being talked about. There were always farmers that bought 250kg runners and paid 650ish euro(400 with there weight in old money) for them. In general these lads finished these extensively at 24-30 months. However I cannot see these lads paying 3/kg for 350kg animals.

All I know is I stick with the black and whites if I can.

sandydan

i would generally agree with you on suggestion of margins ,early in year 300 kg ish were the best but that trend has gone up to the 450kg & even upto 550kg recently, these are nice square animals ,earlier in 500-550 were making €500+ kg now they are making €600+kg, ive suggested they may be for factory feedlots to help kill a surge in price for animals destined for some market, or just to kill off prices again, as some have posted only factories can afford to feed at way some feedlots cattle are fed.

just do it

How are 12mo bull prices vs bullocks?