Frank Bruno vs David Haye

badabing106

I am just watching a clip of Bruno vs Lewis. Bruno looked very good in that fight , before he got suckered into a big left hook . he looked alot better than I thought he would be. I had to laugh at the "True Brit" written on the back of Bruno's shorts

It looks like a pretty exciting fight to me, both with big punches , both with suspect chins. I think Hayes overall speed of hand and foot wins the day in a close fight.

Sheet, I meant to add a poll:(

walshb

Haye

Bruno eats up Haye. What has Haye done or shown us at HW to think that he competes with a very powerful and heavy hitting Bruno? Pot shotting and running won't win this. Bruno will land, land clean, and then it's game over.

Bruno's stamina was more an issue than the chin, and against Haye, who fights in spurts, then Bruno shouldn't be too tired. Yes, Haye has power, and he also has a clear speed of feet and hands advantage, but Bruno will whack him at some stage and he will go.

colly10

Haye

Bruno would knock him out as soon as Haye stops running, Haye really is massively overrated as a heavyweight

cowzerp

Haye

Bruno early ko win, Haye no threat

badabing106

Haye fought a very powerful / heavier hitting Vladamir Klitschko? .I think David Hayes chin had improved since becoming a heayweight? I don't think he would get hit often by a less mobile Bruno?

walshb

Haye

badabing106 wrote: »

Haye fought a very powerful / heavier hitting Vladamir Klitschko? .I think David Hayes chin had improved since becoming a heayweight? I don't think he would get hit often by a less mobile Bruno?

I see where you are going, but, Klit was quite happy to simply keep ahead, score, be patient and be cautuious. Bruno will be a lot more aggressive and attacking. Klit was most likley petrified of getting tagged clean. Haye was petrified too.

Bruno's jab is also a key weapon. Rangey and very strong. It should keep Haye very preoccupied.

walshb

Haye

I will add that Haye's fast feet and elusiveness could see him last the distance, but he will not win. Should he grow a pair and engage, and then he likely tastes heavy firepower and wilts.

colly10

Haye

walshb wrote: »

I see where you are going, but, Klit was quite happy to simply keep ahead, score, be patient and be cautuious. Bruno will be a lot more aggressive and attacking. Klit was most likley petrified of getting tagged clean. Haye was petrified too.

Bruno's jab is also a key weapon. Rangey and very strong. It should keep Haye very preoccupied.

Haye also didn't take the shots all that well either, he got caught with a shot around the middle rounds and told Booth that he had no legs for the remainder of the fight

cowzerp

Haye

Bruno would torture Haye with his jab, that alone could ko Haye and when the big right lands then bye bye.

RiseToTheTop

colly10 wrote: »

Bruno would knock him out as soon as Haye stops running, Haye really is massively overrated as a heavyweight

Who did Bruno beat at Heavyweight though? Aside from knocking out bums on the BBC. 40 wins and 38 KO's.

His biggest fights where against Tyson and Lewis, he lost them all.

badabing106

walshb wrote: »

I see where you are going, but, Klit was quite happy to simply keep ahead, score, be patient and be cautuious. Bruno will be a lot more aggressive and attacking. Klit was most likley petrified of getting tagged clean. Haye was petrified too.

Bruno's jab is also a key weapon. Rangey and very strong. It should keep Haye very preoccupied.

You have it spot on for the Klit vs Haye fight , and I think that Bruno should win the fight, but I think David Haye would have felt more comfortable fighting a less formidable boxer like frank Bruno , and I don't think Frank Bruno had the supreme confidence to fight the big fights? I think David Haye would have pysched him out , like he marginally Pysched Klitschko out and the majority of the boxing pundits? I think David Haye is more of a big Fight fighter than Frank Bruno, and based on that , I would give the edge to Haye

cowzerp

Haye

Bruno has serious power and under rated skills, 1 of the best heavyweight jabs of all and a thunderous right hand-Haye at heavyweight is just not up to it, Bruno was bashing Lewis till caught and Lewis is far better and more powerful than Haye.

I could never see Haye beating Bruno.

Bobby Baccala

Haye

Bruno would take hayes head off his shoulders, this wouldn't be a challenge for bruno what so ever.

colly10

Haye

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Who did Bruno beat at Heavyweight though? Aside from knocking out bums on the BBC. 40 wins and 38 KO's.

His biggest fights where against Tyson and Lewis, he lost them all.

Do you believe Haye would have done any better against either. Haye never did anything impressive at heavyweight either, he fought -

Barrett (went on to record 2 losses and 2 draws after the haye fight)

Valuev (beaten by a 46 year old Holyfield, Haye won by landing the 2 punches he threw every round)

Ruiz (a better version lost to Jones after Jones moved straight to heavyweight, never good and now past it, had already lost twice to Valuev, an even worse opponent than Valuev)

Harrison (A non contest but it still took him about three rounds to through a punch, the ref had to remind them they were there to fight. Easy to look good against a guy with a loss to Rogan on his record but I don't believe he managed to do that)

Wlad (Totally outclassed, never treathened, when he needed to land his amazing Hayemaker he never ran took the risk, he didn't believe he could win)

I just havn't seen anything to make me believe he offers anything as a heavyweight

badabing106

cowzerp wrote: »

Bruno has serious power and under rated skills, 1 of the best heavyweight jabs of all and a thunderous right hand-Haye at heavyweight is just not up to it, Bruno was bashing Lewis till caught and Lewis is far better and more powerful than Haye.

I could never see Haye beating Bruno.

David Hayes style is to wait for his shots. I think David Haye is underated as well. I think he would have waited to tire out Bruno and then gone for the knock out in the last 3-4 rounds.

RiseToTheTop

cowzerp wrote: »

Bruno has serious power and under rated skills, 1 of the best heavyweight jabs of all and a thunderous right hand-Haye at heavyweight is just not up to it, Bruno was bashing Lewis till caught and Lewis is far better and more powerful than Haye.

I could never see Haye beating Bruno.

We heard you the first time, there is no need to post your point of view 3 times in the same topic. (on the very 1st page.)

Yet you go on about my bias is overwhelming and that is why I can't see how good the Klitschko's are :rolleyes:

cowzerp

Haye

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

We heard you the first time, there is no need to post your point of view 3 times in the same topic. (on the very 1st page.)

Yet you go on about my bias is overwhelming and that is why I can't see how good the Klitschko's are :rolleyes:

First off I'll reply as often as I choose, secondly my bias is justified as they are the 2 best heavyweights and have been for some time, Haye at heavyweight is a nobody, most people here share my opinion on Bruno Haye so it's not like I'm saying some crazy stuff.

We're both biased, only thing is mine makes sense.

walshb

Haye

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

We heard you the first time, there is no need to post your point of view 3 times in the same topic. (on the very 1st page.)

Yet you go on about my bias is overwhelming and that is why I can't see how good the Klitschko's are :rolleyes:

Why is it that you are looking for an argument as opposed to a debate and a discussion?

RiseToTheTop

I was just highlighting the palpable bias.

cowzerp bias doesn't make sense, he will NEVER credit Haye. Haye at cruiserweight? Only beat bums. At HW? Don't make me laugh.

Against Bruno, KO'D in 1 round, not a hope.

walshb

Haye

Well, maybe at CW and HW that is what he sees in Haye. I must say, Haye never set my world alight at any weight. Definitely has potential, skills etc, but he has not at all lived up to it. Hyped without delivering. Bruno beats him 9/10 in my book, maybe not as easy as cowzerp sees it, but still he beats him most times.

cowzerp

Haye

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I was just highlighting the palpable bias.

cowzerp bias doesn't make sense, he will NEVER credit Haye. Haye at cruiserweight? Only beat bums. At HW? Don't make me laugh.

Against Bruno, KO'D in 1 round, not a hope.

Your Bias makes no sense, At heavyweight Haye is a NOTHING FIGHTER.

I never said he beat nobody at cruiserweight-can't say he beat anyone worth talking about either but he proved himself at that weight and thats just a fact, At heavy he has fought poor opponents and not looked good, even against Valuev who is a donkey that old Holyfield really beat better than Haye did, haye done next to nothing.

You Overrate Haye and vastly underrate Vitali-your the 1 with the strange opinion not me.

Oh and "Bruno not a hope of KOing Haye in 1", don't make me laugh-if he lands that right it is game over any round.

RiseToTheTop

cowzerp wrote: »

Your Bias makes no sense, At heavyweight Haye is a NOTHING FIGHTER.

I never said he beat nobody at cruiserweight-can't say he beat anyone worth talking about either but he proved himself at that weight and thats just a fact, At heavy he has fought poor opponents and not looked good, even against Valuev who is a donkey that old Holyfield really beat better than Haye did, haye done next to nothing.

You Overrate Haye and 1)vastly underrate Vitali-your the 1 with the strange opinion not me.

Oh and "Bruno not a hope of KOing Haye in 1", 2)don't make me laugh-if he lands that right it is game over any round.

I said Vitali was boring, which was inline with the topic, alright he isn't exciting to me. I don't underrate him though, he will beat whoever he fights next almost certainly. He is the best fighter of this era, I recognize that.

2) What is your basic for this reasoning? He won 40 fights, 38 by KO. IMO that competition is trash. But he lost the most important fights clearly, Tyson, Holyfield, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher. That indicates to me that he is not able to fight at a top level. I don't see how you could rate him as superior to Haye as you are indicating.

cowzerp

Haye

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

2) What is your basic for this reasoning? He won 40 fights, 38 by KO. IMO that competition is trash. But he lost the most important fights clearly, Tyson, Holyfield, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher. That indicates to me that he is not able to fight at a top level. I don't see how you could rate him as superior to Haye as you are indicating.

Haye has a below average chin, Bruno has 1st class power and good skill too and in my opinion he is too much for a cruiserweight with suspect chin.

Daroxtar

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I said Vitali was boring, which was inline with the topic, alright he isn't exciting to me. I don't underrate him though, he will beat whoever he fights next almost certainly. He is the best fighter of this era, I recognize that.

2) What is your basic for this reasoning? He won 40 fights, 38 by KO. IMO that competition is trash. But he lost the most important fights clearly, Tyson, Holyfield, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher. That indicates to me that he is not able to fight at a top level. I don't see how you could rate him as superior to Haye as you are indicating.

I'm assuming you meant Lewis not Holyfield. Anyway, Tyson was rocked by Bruno in their first fight. Witherspoon and Smith were both well behind on points until they stopped Bruno in the second last round and Lewis was in trouble until a hail mary shot put Bruno on the ropes.
If Bruno had decided to go jogging like Haye does for the last 6 minutes against Witherspoon or Smith then he would have been Heavyweight champ a long time before he took the title off McCall. To say that Bruno was not able to fight at the top level is a mile off the mark. To rate Haye higher than him is a joke

RiseToTheTop

Daroxtar wrote: »

I'm assuming you meant Lewis not Holyfield. Anyway, 1)Tyson was rocked by Bruno in their first fight. 2)Witherspoon and Smith were both well behind on points until they stopped Bruno in the second last round and Lewis was in trouble until a hail mary shot put Bruno on the ropes.
3) If Bruno had decided to go jogging like Haye does for the last 6 minutes against Witherspoon or Smith then he would have been Heavyweight champ a long time before he took the title off McCall. To say that Bruno was not able to fight at the top level is a mile off the mark. 4)To rate Haye higher than him is a joke

1) He off put Tyson a bit in the first round, but that was all. He lost the round 10-8. Tyson was clearly the superior fighter.

2)Regards Witherspoon and Smith, you can word it what way you want, he lost to both of them. Lewis beat him too, BTW. Ain't it something that he has such an amazing KO record, 40 wins and 38 KO's, yet he got KO'd in those fights.

3)To go jogging like Haye? Did you not see Haye troubling Wladimir in the 12th? Different game though, Bruno punches and goes for the KO while Wladimir holds all the time. (as he did in the Haye fight.) Matter of fact it would have suited Bruno to take the foot off the pedal and hold a bit, he might have had a title.

4) Where did I say this? Where did I say Haye would beat Bruno??

walshb

Haye

Bruno never jogs like Haye. When your feet are cased in cement, jogging can be very difficult.

RiseToTheTop

When did Haye "jog"? Going into the ring with Vitali he had 25 wins and 23 ko's, that doesn't really conjure up an image of him "jogging". He mightn't have went head on with Valuev, but who would?

What about Wladimir thinking Haye was a teddybear, is that a good analogy?

walshb

Haye

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

When did Haye "jog"? Going into the ring with Vitali he had 25 wins and 23 ko's, that doesn't really conjure up an image of him "jogging". He mightn't have went head on with Valuev, but who would?

What about Wladimir thinking Haye was a teddybear, is that a good analogy?

Jog, move, use your feet. Haye has good feet, stable feet, fast feet. Bruno does not.

Daroxtar

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

1) He off put Tyson a bit in the first round, but that was all. He lost the round 10-8. Tyson was clearly the superior fighter.

I completely agree. He hurt Tyson, then Tyson stopped him. Tyson was better. No argument.

2)Regards Witherspoon and Smith, you can word it what way you want, he lost to both of them. Lewis beat him too, BTW. Ain't it something that he has such an amazing KO record, 40 wins and 38 KO's, yet he got KO'd in those fights.

Yes , he was stopped in these 3 fights while comprehensively ahead and in the case of the case of the Lewis fight had Lewis in all sorts of trouble until a blindly thrown haymaker connected. The point being that you claimed he was unable to mix it at the highest level whereas the evidence suggests he was well able to mix it with them until he got nailed with a big shot or ran out of steam.

3)To go jogging like Haye? Did you not see Haye troubling Wladimir in the 12th? Different game though, Bruno punches and goes for the KO while Wladimir holds all the time. (as he did in the Haye fight.) Matter of fact it would have suited Bruno to take the foot off the pedal and hold a bit, he might have had a title.

That was widely regarded as Bruno's problem, always looking to finish and when he got hit he kept throwing rather than spoil or run
Yes I saw Haye land one whole punch on Wlad in the 12th and in fact IIRC he might have put a dent in his nose around the 3rd or 4th too. And for the rest of the fight I seem to recall Haye trotting about the place aimlessly interspersed with wild lunges in a sort of bad Naseem v Barrera impersonation.
I also recall Haye doing laps of that monolith Valuev. And if you want to go back and search my comments on Haye you will seee that I was quite impressed with his display that night, despite him setting a new 5000m indoor record. I have in fact stood up for Haye many times on here. I thought after watching him beat Mormeck, Enzo Mac, Barrett and Ruiz that he had great handspeed, lovely crisp power and an exciting style that could turn him into something that the HW division wad crying out for. I even expressed a desire to see him dispatch one of the bro's.
Then he boxed like a pansy and blamed his pinky for his dire performance, although funnily enough it didn't stop him jogging

4) Where did I say this? Where did I say Haye would beat Bruno??

Where did I say you that said Haye would beat Bruno? You said the below underlined text which implies you do not rate Bruno as superior to Haye i.e Haye is in your opinion better. I think that is ridiculous.

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

2) What is your basic for this reasoning? He won 40 fights, 38 by KO. IMO that competition is trash. But he lost the most important fights clearly, Tyson, Holyfield, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher. That indicates to me that he is not able to fight at a top level. I don't see how you could rate him as superior to Haye as you are indicating.

RiseToTheTop

Bruno, but he lost them, that is what matters IMO. A soccer team can have 80% possession, 20 shots on target with 10 hitting the post, but if the score is 1-0 against them the score is 1-0.


Yes, I don't see how you could rate him as superior to Haye, but I didn't say Haye was better. I don't have 1 ahead of the other.

I agree that Haye wasn't very aggressive with Wladimir, but alas when was Wladimir aggressive with Haye? In the 3rd Haye caught Wladimir a couple of times, that was almost the only time Wladimir threw multiple hooks. Wladimir wasn't exactly Mr aggressive on that night and going for the KO. (despite declaring multiple times beforehand that Haye would be his 50th KO victim.) If Wladimir fought Valuev I can guarantee you that Wladimir wouldn't be Mr Action and would have fought similar to Haye.

PS: Thanks for the discussion.

cowzerp

Haye

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Bruno, but he lost them, that is what matters IMO. A soccer team can have 80% possession, 20 shots on target with 10 hitting the post, but if the score is 1-0 against them the score is 1-0.
.

The pundits would still say the losing team where the better team on the day bar the goal against the run of play.

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Yes, I don't see how you could rate him as superior to Haye, but I didn't say Haye was better. I don't have 1 ahead of the other.

That's your opinion and your entitled to it-if they where to Box most would back Bruno to beat Haye in my opinion.