WRC 2023 - Ireland sole host?

Son of Stupido

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/gaa-would-play-pivotal-role-in-bid-to-host-world-cup-browne-3056323.html

Topical, thought I would get the debate going.

Its over 11 years until the tournament but what about the suggestion of shared stadia with the GAA?

1) Are there enough? (12 used in New Zealand, 11 in Australia.)

2) Who would benefit? Would it cost too much? (Do they make money / financial return on investment?)

1) Stadia

Dublin
(1) Croke Park (82,300 - no work required)
(2) Lansdowne Road (53,000 - no work required)

Cork
(3) Páirc Uí Chaoimh (plans to rebuild to 45,000/60,000 under way)

Galway
(4) Pearse Stadium (34,000, new main stand could bring up to 40,000)

Limerick
(5) Thomond Park (26,000, new stand at end could bring it to 30,000+)
(6) Gaelic Grounds (43,000, new roofs, seats + general improvements to make nice 40,000+)

Belfast
(7) Ravenhill (currently being re-built to 20,000, new stand could bring it to 25,000+)
(8) Casement park (currently being upgraded to 40,000 all seated)

Waterford
(9) Walsh park (17,000 - weakest link would require major work. Nice 25-30,000 would suffice)

Killarney
(10) Fitzgerald Stadium (43,000 with plans to upgrade to 50,000. Seats & roof could make it nice 45,000)

Derry
(11) Celtic Park (22,000 - could be upgraded to 30,000 with roof & seats)


Other possible venues?
(12) Semple stadium, Thurles (good stadium but town is a bit small)
(13) Nolan park, Kilkenny (24,000 but would require major work)
(14) Markievicz Park, Sligo (20,000 but would require major work)


2) Who gains?

1) IRFU - get prestige (and cash) in hosting it

(see http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/2011-rugby-world-cup-in-new-zealand-scores-financially-3059209.html )

2) GAA - get a number of stadia upgraded (improved, no white elephants)

3) FAI - A successful tournament could be a forerunner for a bid for a European soccer championship ?


Personally I think they COULD do it, there are enough stadia currently that could do with a refurbishment, but none would need to be re-built from scratch.

Also the capacity of a lot of the GAA stadia would not need to be raised, but general facilities could be improved (roof, seats, concourses etc)


thoughts?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Son of Stupido wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/gaa-would-play-pivotal-role-in-bid-to-host-world-cup-browne-3056323.html

Topical, thought I would get the debate going.

Not by half

Podge_irl

Thread on it recently. Some thought we could do it modelled on NZ. Others (myself included) were of the opinion that there ia no hope of it going back to a small country after the next two big ones.

Damokc

The WRC? can't see the GAA letting rally cars tear up Croke Park:D

CIARAN_BOYLE

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056075943
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056554990
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=75864125
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056419856

wp_rathead

was debated few months back here

I stick by my original statement in that thread that it would make more sense to set up a 7's team and hoist a tournament.. Be good for Irish Rugby. Be good for Irish Economy

Brendan97

In NZ one or 2 of the stadia were only able to hold 15'000, so we have plenty over that

Tox56

Host it with Wales, we don't have the infastructure at all the GAA stadiums for something of that size. NZ got it as this was the last time it could be held before the tournament gets too big. There, that's all I've got to say.

bossa_nova

We simply havent got the stadiums to host, and neither did NZ really but they had to win it somehow :pac::P

the total attendance for the 2011 world was 1.4 million, the lowest since the 1995 world cup, and i couldn't find the total number for that one either. Its a huge drop from the 2.2 million that went to the 2007 one and i'd say the IRB will be looking to cash in on big numbers on the next few

bilston

2023 may be optimistic, it may be 11 years away but the way things work in Ireland that probably wouldn't be enough time to get things organised...in fact a bid would presumably have to be delivered in the next two or three years?

Maybe some time in the 2030s might be more realistic.

What about the JWC? Belfast hosted the U19 tournament in 2007, maybe Ireland could host the JWC in the next few years although I think it's usually restricted to one city?

ormond lad

bilston wrote: »

2023 may be optimistic, it may be 11 years away but the way things work in Ireland that probably wouldn't be enough time to get things organised...in fact a bid would presumably have to be delivered in the next two or three years?

Maybe some time in the 2030s might be more realistic.

What about the JWC? Belfast hosted the U19 tournament in 2007, maybe Ireland could host the JWC in the next few years although I think it's usually restricted to one city?

You only need 1 city for junior world cup. Limerick could host the junior world cup
Whenever we'd want to host a RWC we would need the help of another country like scotland or wales or the help of the GAA. Would we get permission to use several GAA stadia in september/october. Probably not.
Best shot of rugby world cup games being held in ireland again is in a joint bid with scotland and/or wales

CiaranMT

Gaelic Grounds has a capacity of almost 50,000.

LeinsterDub

Barring Croke Park all other GAA stadiums are non runners . Would take years to push through congress if at all

CiaranMT

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Barring Croke Park all other GAA stadiums are non runners . Would take years to push through congress if at all

They've plenty of them!

LeinsterDub

CiaranMT wrote: »

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Barring Croke Park all other GAA stadiums are non runners . Would take years to push through congress if at all

They've plenty of them!

Not really . We've yet to decide to bid so the GAA won't even consider it till a formal approach is made .

New Zealand where awarded the bid 7 years a head of the tournament , France 4 so we've between 3 and 6 years to get the GAA to approve and formulate a bid

Cpt_Blackbeard

As I mentioned last time the topic came up, I think training facilities, not stadia, would be the deciding factor. I just can't see how we would have adequate training facilities for 20 professional rugby teams.

Clegg

In 2023 Kidney will still be coach, Ireland will be 18th in the world rankings and he will still be saying that the lads just need a bit more time to get things right.

wp_rathead

Clegg wrote: »

In 2023 Kidney will still be coach, Ireland will be 18th in the world rankings and he will still be saying that the lads just need a bit more time to get things right.

..and DOC will still be starting 2nd Row despite having retired from club rugby

Brian

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

As I mentioned last time the topic came up, I think training facilities, not stadia, would be the deciding factor. I just can't see how we would have adequate training facilities for 20 professional rugby teams.

Phoenix Park?

errlloyd

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

As I mentioned last time the topic came up, I think training facilities, not stadia, would be the deciding factor. I just can't see how we would have adequate training facilities for 20 professional rugby teams.

Including the North we have 9 universities, all of which have pretty high performance gyms. We have a bunch of a semi pro soccer teams, and we just approved a new sports facility at abbotstown and the Irish team base in Charlton.

Not as big an issue as you might think.

CIARAN_BOYLE

errlloyd wrote: »

Including the North we have 9 universities, all of which have pretty high performance gyms. We have a bunch of a semi pro soccer teams, and we just approved a new sports facility at abbotstown and the Irish team base in Charlton.

Not as big an issue as you might think.

and yet none of them managed to lure an olympic team to use Irish facilities as a training base

OldRio

We have the stadiums and training facilities.
We have plenty of time and resources to develop the infrastructure.
What we need more of, is vision and leadership.

bamboozle

Leo Varadker on rte now discussing this.

Pete_Cavan

bossa_nova wrote: »

We simply havent got the stadiums to host, and neither did NZ really but they had to win it somehow

the total attendance for the 2011 world was 1.4 million, the lowest since the 1995 world cup, and i couldn't find the total number for that one either. Its a huge drop from the 2.2 million that went to the 2007 one and i'd say the IRB will be looking to cash in on big numbers on the next few

If we team up with Wales we easily have the required capacity.

The stadiums used in NZ were:

Stadium (capacity) no of games
Eden Park (60,000) 11
Westpac (40,000) 8
Waikato (36,000) 3
Rotura (34,000) 3
North Harbour (30,000) 4
Forsyth Barr (30,000) 4
Taranaki Stadium (26,000) 3
McLean Park (22,000) 2
Invercargill (20,000) 3
Whangerei (18,000) 2
Trafalgar Park (18,000) 3
Palmerston (15,000) 2

If we do the same again for us and Wales;

Stadium (capacity) no of games
Croke Park (82,300) 10
Mellennium Stadium (74,500) 6
Aviva Stadium (50,000) 6
Renovated Páirc Uí Chaoimh (50,000) 6
Renovated Casement Park (40,000) 6
Renovated Pearse Stadium (30,000) 5
Thomond Park (26,000) 4
Cardiff City Stadium (26,000) 3
Renovated Ravenhill (20,000) 2

Comparing the two gives us (can a mod who knows how the tables work fix this, these are meant to be three columns side by side (No of Games (Irl) being in the middle));

Capacity
>74,000
60,000 – 73,999
45,000 – 59,999
30,000 – 44,999
20,000 – 29,999
<20,000No of Games (Irl)
16
0
12
11
9
0No of Games (NZ)
0
11
0
22
8
7

Assuming the number of games assigned to each stadium is as I have said above, that gives a total capacity across the 48 games of 2,482,000 and an average attendance of 51,708. And thats being a bit conservative with the stadium renovations (ie. Pearse Stadium may end up with more than 30k, Thomond may get new stands at each end, etc.). We would have capacity for a higher average attendance than in France in 2007.

Out of those, only four are GAA stadia, the Gaelic Grounds (vast concrete terraces) and Semple Stadium (no corporate facilities) are not suitable. Five stadia (including the big three) are already build and all the ones that would require major works (knocking existing stands and building new ones) have such plans in the pipeline already. Páirc Uí Chaoimh and Casement Park may be rebuilt in the next decade regardless, because the GAA are looking to get income from these on non-match days (so looking to host conferences, concerts, etc.).

Wales' group could mainly be based in Cardiff, with two group games being played in Ireland. I have given them 5 group games in the Millennium (4 Welsh games plus one more), a quarter final on that side of the draw there also, and three smaller group games in the Cardiff City Stadium. This would also mean we only have to host 15 teams, which shouldnt be a problem.

ArmaniJeanss

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If we team up with Wales we easily have the required capacity.

The stadiums used in NZ were:

I think comparing New Zealand tournament with a future Ireland bid is a mistake. NZ was picked for reasons beyond its stadiums.

How potential bids match up against England 2015 and Japan 2019 will be far more relevant when it comes to bids for 2023,27,31 etc.

I'd have thought South Africa, North America and Italy will have more compelling cases when the bidding begins.