Ryanair Taking Advantage in Ireland...

eitlean

One of the reasons given against Ryanair's bid for Aer Lingus was to do with competition in the Irish market. I just looked at the offers on the Ryanair website and offers for Ireland start at 3 times the amount anywhere else in Europe. You will see 'Flights from €15.99' on the Irish section. Change to Spain or France and you'll see 'Flights from €5', UK is £5.

So, maybe the authorities got it right and they're taking advantage as is!

Expect to see more competition in Spain. Iberia Express starts next week with 4 destinations. In its press release (taken from ElPais.es): "Iberia CEO Express, Luis Gallego, has revealed that during the summer provides eight new domestic destinations to Vigo, Santiago de Compostela, Granada, Menorca, Ibiza, Fuerteventura, Lanzarote and La Palma, and the first flights to Europe (Dublin , Naples, Mykonos, Riga and Amsterdam)." Dublin will be one of the first destinations! I wonder is there an element of rubbing it in Ryanair's face there???

Suits

eitlean wrote: »

One of the reasons given against Ryanair's bid for Aer Lingus was to do with competition in the Irish market. I just looked at the offers on the Ryanair website and offers for Ireland start at 3 times the amount anywhere else in Europe. You will see 'Flights from €15.99' on the Irish section. Change to Spain or France and you'll see 'Flights from €5', UK is £5.

So, maybe the authorities got it right and they're taking advantage as is!

Expect to see more competition in Spain. Iberia Express starts next week with 4 destinations. In its press release (taken from ElPais.es): "Iberia CEO Express, Luis Gallego, has revealed that during the summer provides eight new domestic destinations to Vigo, Santiago de Compostela, Granada, Menorca, Ibiza, Fuerteventura, Lanzarote and La Palma, and the first flights to Europe (Dublin , Naples, Mykonos, Riga and Amsterdam)." Dublin will be one of the first destinations! I wonder is there an element of rubbing it in Ryanair's face there???

The price difference is to do with the airport taxes and govt travel tax in Ireland. Ireland doesnt have the low cost middle of nowhere airports that other European countries have. Ryanair raises the prices to cover those costs.

bladeruner

Travel tax in Ireland is considerably less then in the UK (APD tax)

And I have never seen a crappy airport in Spain , they are all generally large and well equipped, I think they are all run by AENA ( Spanish equivalent of DAA in ireland or BAA in the UK. )

France does have some poxy airports though.

eitlean

Suits wrote: »

The price difference is to do with the airport taxes and govt travel tax in Ireland. Ireland doesnt have the low cost middle of nowhere airports that other European countries have. Ryanair raises the prices to cover those costs.

Have they no taxes and airport charges elsewhere in Europe? Knock is a low cost middle of nowhere...

Suits

eitlean wrote: »

Have they no taxes and airport charges elsewhere in Europe? Knock is a low cost middle of nowhere...

Not to the same extent really. Ryanair is doing it on purpose to force the govt to lower or abolish the taxes in Ireland.

Ryanair uses the likes of Beauvais instead of CDG to cut costs like landing and service costs. In Dublin they MUST use DUB and in Shannon they must SNN...they dont have a choice and so these airports bump up the price. If Beauvais put their price up Ryanair could threaten to go elsewhere. So Ryanair bumps up prices in Ireland to force airports here to keep the prices low enough(or even drop them) so that Ryanair brings in passengers. Ryanair cant pull out of DUB so high fares is their only weapon to cover the higher cost DUB rubs in. But in France/Spain and the rest of Europe they do have options in a lot of areas and can move to another airport nearby.

eitlean

Not to the same extent really. Ryanair is doing it on purpose to force the govt to lower or abolish the taxes in Ireland.

I disagree. It was only a few months ago O'Leary, Branson and Walsh got together to condemn the ADP in Britain. If that was their modus operandi then fares in Britain would be a lot higher.

It was only a couple years ago I was taking 1 cent flights around Europe out of Dublin.

The way I see it: competition is low here, so Ryanair take advantage. When you think of it we're the only EU country not to have Easyjet operate here. I'm glad now they never took over EI. Could you imagine what it'd be like then? I'd love to see another EU lowcost airline set up a base here. We need it.

Suits

eitlean wrote: »

I disagree. It was only a few months ago O'Leary, Branson and Walsh got together to condemn the ADP in Britain. If that was their modus operandi then fares in Britain would be a lot higher.

It was only a couple years ago I was taking 1 cent flights around Europe out of Dublin.

The way I see it: competition is low here, so Ryanair take advantage. When you think of it we're the only EU country not to have Easyjet operate here. I'm glad now they never took over EI. Could you imagine what it'd be like then? I'd love to see another EU lowcost airline set up a base here. We need it.

In Ireland you have the govt travel tax and then you have high costs of operating in Irish airports. Fares in Britain are lower as the cost at airports is lower. Ryanair have to pay what the DAA ask at the end of the day, but in Britain if Gatwick say "we want and extra £1000 per flight handled" Ryanair can say "Sod off we're going to Luton or Stansted with the route then". We dont have competition at airports here. Each airport has monopoly over it's region and so the charge is whatever the authority want to set it at.

No other carrier can set up a base here because this is Ryanair country. They would run any low cost carrier out of these parts so quick their heads would spin!! Aer Lingus would also fight them off as would Aer Lingus Regional. The same issue as Ryanair have with cost here would also make any such venture by Easyjet or whoever a bad business move as it would cost a lot for handling of their flights and they would be fighting Ryanair and Aer Lingus on most routes.

basill

If you read the investor notes, press releases, financials and just about anything that comes from MOL's mouth in the last year it is all about increasing his average fares. He has little in the way of expansion to come so has to grow his top line somehow. It's also why he isn't all that concerned about renewing his fleet as he already has more than enough aircraft to cope with. There are threads galore on here and pprune noting the scale of his aircraft parked up over the winter. He just wants another cheap deal like Boeing gave him but is sadly out of luck this time around.

They are no longer positioning themselves as a low fares airline. Nor we're they ever really. That was a misnomer with most people confusing low cost with low fares. His business plan has always been about screwing every last penny out of his passengers.


It's interesting times for him for sure. His customers are some of the most price sensitive (he has made them that way with his seat sales etc) and will only take so much before looking elsewhere or dropping their leisure plans altogether. Remember many of his destinations still remain in the back ar*e of nowhere so there is only so much his punters will take.

L1011

Suits wrote: »

The price difference is to do with the airport taxes and govt travel tax in Ireland. Ireland doesnt have the low cost middle of nowhere airports that other European countries have. Ryanair raises the prices to cover those costs.

Kool-aid has been touched a little there.

Airport charges and govt taxes are actually very low by European norms here. MOL telling everyone he can that they're "extortionate" doesn't make it true.

Suits

MYOB wrote: »

Kool-aid has been touched a little there.

Airport charges and govt taxes are actually very low by European norms here. MOL telling everyone he can that they're "extortionate" doesn't make it true.

Ryanair is getting a lot financial breaks in smaller european airports in return for expansion. The lower costs transfer into lower fares.

IngazZagni

You would be surprised of the demographic of many of these so called "middle of nowhere" airports such as "Frankfurt" Hahn and "Dusseldorf" Weeze. You would find that a good proportion of passengers here are not passengers travelling to the cities of Frankfurt or Dusseldorf but rather people that live more locally in the surrounding villages and towns.

Also Ryanair creates its own market and small towns and cities know that. If Ryanair didn't exist, neither would the tourists. A good example is the Charleroi to Valladollid route. Nobody did this route before Ryanair and nobody will do it if Ryanair leaves. It's Ryanairs customers. And for those wondering no other airline flies to BRU either.

L1011

Suits wrote: »

Ryanair is getting a lot financial breaks in smaller european airports in return for expansion. The lower costs transfer into lower fares.

Temporary subsidies are not long term viable. DUB is nowhere near the dearest airport to take off from, per pax, that FR operate from.

Suits

MYOB wrote: »

Temporary subsidies are not long term viable. DUB is nowhere near the dearest airport to take off from, per pax, that FR operate from.

But it operates a lot from DUB. Higher costs at other airports may work out cheaper if the FR traffic volume there is less.

The costs of operating in Ireland is more for FR and that transfers into fare prices.

eitlean

Suits wrote: »

But it operates a lot from DUB. Higher costs at other airports may work out cheaper if the FR traffic volume there is less.

The costs of operating in Ireland is more for FR and that transfers into fare prices.

I'd like to fly the 800 as much as you I'm sure but I think your loyalty is a little misplaced, unless you're a benefactor of M'OL in some other way... Back to original point: Ryanair is screwing Irish consumers and has no loyalty to them because if it did we would have the same offers the rest of Europe have...

Suits

eitlean wrote: »

I'd like to fly the 800 as much as you I'm sure but I think your loyalty is a little misplaced, unless you're a benefactor of M'OL in some other way... Back to original point: Ryanair is screwing Irish consumers and has no loyalty to them because if it did we would have the same offers the rest of Europe have...

I'm not being loyal to anyone. My point is that MOL is fighting the Irish govt with high fares here in order to get the 10e tax abolished and the costs of operating with the DAA reduced. Individual airports here cannot change their operation costs as it is a centralised system, so Ryanair puts pressure on the govt to force a change.
If fares to/from Ireland are high tourists wont come with Ryanair and that is Ryanair's weapon against the govt here. It's the classic bully boy tactics Ryanair uses all over the place. They chose to absorb some costs as far as fare price goes, but the high fares to Ireland are a weapon in their war against the Irish govt and DAA.

bladeruner

Suits wrote: »

eitlean wrote: »

I'd like to fly the 800 as much as you I'm sure but I think your loyalty is a little misplaced, unless you're a benefactor of M'OL in some other way... Back to original point: Ryanair is screwing Irish consumers and has no loyalty to them because if it did we would have the same offers the rest of Europe have...

I'm not being loyal to anyone. My point is that MOL is fighting the Irish govt with high fares here in order to get the 10e tax abolished and the costs of operating with the DAA reduced. Individual airports here cannot change their operation costs as it is a centralised system, so Ryanair puts pressure on the govt to force a change.
If fares to/from Ireland are high tourists wont come with Ryanair and that is Ryanair's weapon against the govt here. It's the classic bully boy tactics Ryanair uses all over the place. They chose to absorb some costs as far as fare price goes, but the high fares to Ireland are a weapon in their war against the Irish govt and DAA.

I'm pretty sure the travel tax is now around €3 not €10. Which is low by international standards. As are the operating costs from Irish airports.

Ryanair need/want increased yield from pax.
Ryanair are charging these prices because they can not because of some ideological battle with the Goverment.
Even if they were , it would be shooting themselves in the foot and shockingly bad business as Aer Lingus will pick up all their customers.
That's a conspiracy theory too far, even for me .

I'm done on this thread

Jamie2k9

simple a lot of FR routes from DUB are FR most profitable and they are charging higher fares to Irish people as they are the only low cost carrier in Ireland and they can get away with it. If EZY started in DUB there fares would fall. Quiet often EI work out cheeper with FR with baggage, EU charges and check in etc.

Fighting Irish Gov and airprot charges but they have no problem paying £28 from April for return flights in the UK before any UK chargers are added on. Ireland is very cheep to fly from in Europe. Germany, France and UK are much more expensive.

L1011

Suits wrote: »

But it operates a lot from DUB. Higher costs at other airports may work out cheaper if the FR traffic volume there is less.

You may want to re-do the maths... of course it'll be "cheaper" if they've less volume but the issue is the cost per passenger

Suits wrote: »

The costs of operating in Ireland is more for FR and that transfers into fare prices.

Except its not, and they charge the highest prices their market will bear.

eitlean

The only difference I can see is that Ireland has no connections to Europe other than by air (fast) and boat (slow). And in the air category there's only a couple of low fare competitors.

The U.K. and all other E.U. countries have high speed rail and other low cost competitors.

Ryanair = vulchers and all the crap you hear about how MO'L should run the country bla bla bla... He'd have the drainholes privatised and us paying charges per heartbeat. Take the Ryanair on pedestal talk with a pinch of salt. Here's hoping for more competition!

homerjay2005

eitlean wrote: »

Ryanair = vulchers and all the crap you hear about how MO'L should run the country bla bla bla... He'd have the drainholes privatised and us paying charges per heartbeat.

no, he would pay people what they deserved, would cut out the unnecessary s*it, get rid of whingers, stand up to the golden circle, corrupt politicians, trade unions and all the other nonsense that has ruined this country.

Tenger

FR can offer whatever ticket fares they want regardless of taxes/charges from the relevant nation/airport. They alter their fare according to demand and relevant market demographic. I have no doubt that FR would charge more in Continental Europe if they could get away with it. Here in Ireland we have very little choice of extra-national transport.

homerjay2005 wrote: »

no, he would pay people what they deserved, would cut out the unnecessary s*it, get rid of whingers, stand up to the golden circle, corrupt politicians, trade unions and all the other nonsense that has ruined this country.

"...he would pay people what they deserved,..... You may well find that you will suddenly earn lot less if MoL decided your payscale.

What this nation needs is correct 'lean' procedures in place not MoL taking over.
We need efficiency and value for money rather than entrenched militant civil service types. (I'm sure many members of the civil service are well meaning but unable to change the existing system.)

The only point of his I agree is non-aviation, it is to do with hospital operating theatres, why are they not working 18-24 hours a day all year round?

BuffyBot

Isn't this called the free market? Why would Ryanair charge a customer in Dublin the same as a passenger in Paris? That's not how airlines operate. They're not social services, they're for-profit industries. If they have to cut prices in one market to compete, and charge a different price in another, that's exactly what they'll do.

castie

I flew Cork to HKG return with Air Newzealand.

When priced it was 600 euro.
I looked at possibly staying in London for a few days on either way and checked London to HKG return on the same flight and it was 1100 euro!!

Everyone is at it...and we benefit some times and lose out others.

eitlean

I'm not so sure it's a completely 'free market'. I understand that a company is going to take advantage. That generally is what entrepreneurs do to make money and get by.

My point was that the authorites got it right when they decided Ryanair couldn't have Aer Lingus.

I think they should possibly go a little further, for the benefit of us Irish consumers, and have rules against 'below cost selling' seats to oust another airline. That way maybe we'd see some more routes and lower fares???

Tea 1000

bladeruner wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the travel tax is now around €3 not €10. Which is low by international standards. As are the operating costs from Irish airports.

Ryanair need/want increased yield from pax.
Ryanair are charging these prices because they can not because of some ideological battle with the Goverment.
Even if they were , it would be shooting themselves in the foot and shockingly bad business as Aer Lingus will pick up all their customers.
That's a conspiracy theory too far, even for me .

I'm done on this thread

You're right, Ryanair are charging those prices because they can. However, who's to stop them? Aer Lingus by offering lower fares? Doesn't seem to be happening.

Tea 1000

eitlean wrote: »

I think they should possibly go a little further, for the benefit of us Irish consumers, and have rules against 'below cost selling' seats to oust another airline. That way maybe we'd see some more routes and lower fares???

Like we had in the 80's when fuel was probably 1 fiftieth of what it is today?

Technoprisoner

i think there is another side to this....id imagine that dublin isnt on the top list of places to visit...i have seen flights coming to dublin with less than 15 people on board. How can a company keep these flights there for regular commuters if the prices are not slightly over inflated? €16 x 15 = €240. How much fuel would a flight from Stanstead use??

L1011

Technoprisoner wrote: »

i think there is another side to this....id imagine that dublin isnt on the top list of places to visit...i have seen flights coming to dublin with less than 15 people on board. How can a company keep these flights there for regular commuters if the prices are not slightly over inflated? €16 x 15 = €240. How much fuel would a flight from Stanstead use??

How often do you ever seen 15 passengers on a flight from STN?

Worst load I've ever seen from any London airport to DUB was about 70%. In some cases there may be poor load in one direction and not another but bear in mind that the aircraft is likely to be operating that leg *anyway*.

DUB-CFN has very poor loads DUB-CFN in the am and CFN-DUB in the pm but much better the opposite way. Should BE stop selling tickets when they need to run the plane there anyway? No.

CharlieR

i have flown ryanair for 3 yrs now and the flights from last year have gome fro c32euro/week to 130e/week.

travelling home weekly to see my kids is no longer an option, gone from 32e /week to current rate means travelling 1once per week to once per 3 weeks.

castie

CharlieR wrote: »

i have flown ryanair for 3 yrs now and the flights from last year have gome fro c32euro/week to 130e/week.

travelling home weekly to see my kids is no longer an option, gone from 32e /week to current rate means travelling 1once per week to once per 3 weeks.

Flights from where?

I find it hard to believe its that costly now.

CharlieR

castie wrote: »

CharlieR wrote: »

i have flown ryanair for 3 yrs now and the flights from last year have gome fro c32euro/week to 130e/week.

travelling home weekly to see my kids is no longer an option, gone from 32e /week to current rate means travelling 1once per week to once per 3 weeks.

Flights from where?

I find it hard to believe its that costly now.

I fly from Cork to London every week for work and have been for the last 3 years.

Monday am flights were 9.99e now 40.99e and Friday eve flights from 67 to 87e plus the 12e booking fee as no longer takes a prepaid cc.

Looking to book sept flights now and they are this cost.

bk

CharlieR wrote: »

plus the 12e booking fee as no longer takes a prepaid cc.

Get yourself a Neteller prepaid card, no booking fees:
http://www.neteller.com

yosser hughes

CharlieR wrote: »

I fly from Cork to London every week for work and have been for the last 3 years.

Monday am flights were 9.99e now 40.99e and Friday eve flights from 67 to 87e plus the 12e booking fee as no longer takes a prepaid cc.

Looking to book sept flights now and they are this cost.

Just as well you didn't emigrate before Ryanair came along and had to depend on the state airline. Well you just wouldn't have got a look in. It was the preserve of the very wealthy or public employees. Aer Lingus employees did pretty well out of it too. Meanwhile the rest of the population paid their taxes to keep it going or emigrated by boat They didn't get home either.
I emigrated in the eighties and flying home was never an option until Ryanair came along. It's a bit rich that people are complaining about €40 fares!
Ryanair also bring huge numbers of tourists in to this country that would not otherwise come if the fares weren't so cheap.
People need to get some perspective. People also need to realise if they don't like the product then don't buy it. Ryanair ain't putting agun to your head.
Such is the negativity and downright hostility displayed by media, govt. and the general public I'd be amazed of Ryanair didn't relocate out of ireland completely, and I wouldn't blame them.
In the same way as access to transport such as the Fiat 500 changed Italian society in the sixties, Ryanair has revolutionised european travel and history will acknowledge that fact. Even if they don't get the credit now.

Altreab

yosser hughes wrote: »

Just as well you didn't emigrate before Ryanair and had to depend on the state airline. Well you just wouldn't have got a look in. It was the preserve of the very wealthy or public employees. the employees did pretty well out of it too. Meanwhile the rest of the population paid their taxes to keep it going or emigrated by boat They didn't get home either.
I emigarted in the eighties and flying home was never an option until Ryanair came along. It's a bit rich that people are complaining about €40 fares!
Ryanair also bring huge numbers of tourists in to this country that would not otherwise come if the fares weren't so cheap.
people need to get some perspective.

Back in the late 70s my mum had to get a flight to London on a few days notice. It cost her nearly 1 1/2 weeks of average pay for the ticket. This was when it was Ilegal for chartered airlines or travel agents to sell tickets below the fixed prices set by Aer Lingus and BA. Now people are complaining when it costs 2 HOURS of average pay to fly to the same destination!!

L1011

bk wrote: »

Get yourself a Neteller prepaid card, no booking fees:
http://www.neteller.com

FR either already have or are very shortly going to only take the FR-issued prepaid as a way around the fees.

EI's option to get around it is only marginally less obscure, mind.

veetwin

CharlieR wrote: »

I fly from Cork to London every week for work and have been for the last 3 years.

Monday am flights were 9.99e now 40.99e and Friday eve flights from 67 to 87e plus the 12e booking fee as no longer takes a prepaid cc.

Looking to book sept flights now and they are this cost.

3 years ago it cost around €60 to fill my car. Now its over €100. I'd imagine it's considerably more to fill a 737. In fairness a round trip to London from Cork at €130 is hardly extortionate.

CharlieR

Fuel costs are the same all over Europe but the fares are not and that was the question asked.

I cannot understand fares quadrupling in the last 8 months.

They change from May 2012 to 4 times what they were in Sept and even in feb this year.

Perhaps they see all the regular commuters and have decided to take advantage.

Fuel has gone up gradually, fares have not.

Perhaps the decline in passengers on the flights is the reason?

L1011

veetwin wrote: »

3 years ago it cost around €60 to fill my car. Now its over €100. I'd imagine it's considerably more to fill a 737. In fairness a round trip to London from Cork at €130 is hardly extortionate.

Aviation fuel increases have been lower as there's no duty on them and quite a considerable % of the increase in consumer fuel here has been duty.

But yes, it has gone up quite noticeably.

veetwin

CharlieR wrote: »

I cannot understand fares quadrupling in the last 8 months.

Do you think that the €9.99 fare was a true cost of flying a passenger from Cork to London? Do you think that they now decide to charge €40 now in order to rip off that passenger? I'm no expert here but I'm guessing the €10 fare was a loss leader and even at €40 it's still cracking value.

I'm no Ryanair fan but it's hard to argue with the fares compared to the direct competition (Aer Lingus) on most routes. Your point about taking advantage of regular commuters is good but every other airline would do/do the exact same. Check the Air France fares from DUB to LCY or EI/BMI DUB to LHR. Both flights full of regular commuters and paying nice premiums to fly these routes at the peak times...certainly more than €40 per sector.

castie

Ever think that like minded individuals may have gotten there before you too?

With the increase in the amount of people doing the commute these days Im sure people have booked now before you also.

eitlean

castie wrote: »

Ever think that like minded individuals may have gotten there before you too?

With the increase in the amount of people doing the commute these days Im sure people have booked now before you also.

Just noticed the fares everywhere else has gone up from €5 to €9.99. Ireland still 33% more than anywhere else for offers as here's it's €15.99 minimum...