how much fert

leg wax

how much fert are you guys using in a year on suckler farms,how much per acre or how much per cow,including silage ground and for replacements.at what times of the year do you spread,and how many times would you spread the main grazing platform.

Muckit

We would be very lowly stocked.

On average 2 bags/acre between silage and grazing. What type bag used depends on what ground needs. Majority of sllurry usually goes back onto silage ground after it's cut the June bank holiday. Any extra goes on grazing ground low in P+K.

Ground in picture is rough grazing ground that floods so spreading slurry in spring is a non runner. Anyway I think going in with a heavy tanker of slurry regardless of what tyres compacts ground and does more harm than good. The 135 with 5-6 bags has no probs

Spread bag mostly in the spring around Paddy's day. Wash spreader and it rarely sees the light of day until the following year unless tight for grass in back end.

GERMAN ROCKS

i have a high stocking rate and spread 48 tonne to 125 acres last year

reilig

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

i have a high stocking rate and spread 48 tonne to 125 acres last year

Wow!!! That's some cost. The guts of €20,000. What sort of farming are you carrying out? Does the profit justify this spend on fert????????

We spread 10 ton on 130 acres last year. Imported approximately 80,000 gallons of pig slurry - got it dumped in the tanks for free and just had to spread it myself.

I'm honestly shocked by the figure of 48 ton. Would nitrate rules even allow for that?

We have an outfarm of 70 acres which is lightly stocked. We have 20% of silage for next year left over and lots of grass since we got slurry out 4 weeks ago. I have more slurry to put out there and I'm considering getting a couple of thousand gallons of pig slurry on it also. I can't see myself spending any money on fertilizer for it this year anyway.

leg wax

muckit you are stocked very low how many cows to the acre.reilig you are too same question to you,pig slurry got it last year delivered at 50 euros a hr for 3000 gallon tanker ,nearly 2 loads an hour,put it out at 2000gallons a acre for silage plus 1 bag of urea,happy with the responce off old grass i think 10 bales a acre.reilig what ever way i do your sums takeing in the pig slurry as fert you are only spreading less than 3 bags a acre,i run a paddock system here and when i move the cows and calves i follow in with the spreader,how do you guys do it,my rotation is around 20 days so i will have 10 rotations of grazing ,8 of which i can spread fert:rolleyes:.if i was to only spead the grazing area and no silage that would mean i could only spread 10 units of nitro a acre a rotation,sorry will get back to this have to put dinner on:D

bbam

Muckit wrote: »

Ground in picture is rough grazing ground .

Rough grazing ground :eek::eek::eek:
I'm hoping you put up the wrong picture, either that or my impression on rough ground needs to be calibrated..

Feeling slightly demoralised now, that looks like our prime land... you should see our "rough grazing ground"

Figerty

Now I know why we are classified as 'Disadvantaged' in the clare... or mountainy type land in the SFP.....

I can't put a wheel on the good ground even yet!

BeeDI

30 acres here. Keeping 15 cows plus stock bull. Most calf February. Keep all calves over the winter, selling in March. In fact, sold last week. Average price €1056 for bulls and heifers as a group.
Spread slurry on silage ground in April. Used 3.5 tons bag fertilizer last year. Made 180 bales silage, and bought in another 30. All will be used by mid April. Also bought 3.5 tons meals.

reilig

leg wax wrote: »

muckit you are stocked very low how many cows to the acre.reilig you are too same question to you,pig slurry got it last year delivered at 50 euros a hr for 3000 gallon tanker ,nearly 2 loads an hour,put it out at 2000gallons a acre for silage plus 1 bag of urea,happy with the responce off old grass i think 10 bales a acre.reilig what ever way i do your sums takeing in the pig slurry as fert you are only spreading less than 3 bags a acre,i run a paddock system here and when i move the cows and calves i follow in with the spreader,how do you guys do it,my rotation is around 20 days so i will have 10 rotations of grazing ,8 of which i can spread fert:rolleyes:.if i was to only spead the grazing area and no silage that would mean i could only spread 10 units of nitro a acre a rotation,sorry will get back to this have to put dinner on:D

We have 60 cows plus 10 replacements, plus bull, plus a few carried (heifers that didn't go in calf, plus 20 ewes for cleaning up after the cows), on 120 acres.

I run a rotation system too at approximately 21 days. Between slurry and fertilizer I'm spreading about 2 bags to the acre in spring time. (Thats what I estimate anyway) I don't fertilize or put on slurry again until July when the growth slows a bit. I could never justify putting on fertilizer after every grazing. For me, it would be wasted. The land just isn't good enough of quality to justify it.

For this area, we are very heavily stocked in comparison to neighbours. It takes a lot of careful management. However, there's a fine line between putting on enough fertilizer and reducing costs.

Me thinks the biggest difference between me and many other farmers on here is the quality of land. Ours is poor, but we try to look after it well in comparison. However, our profit monitor figures stand up quite well in comparison to other farmers with better land than us and who use a lot more fertilizer. (One of the advantages of the discussion group).

Horses for courses I suppose.

PS. I'm still interested in hearing what sort of a system German Rocks is running and if it is profitable?????????

adne

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

i have a high stocking rate and spread 48 tonne to 125 acres last year

That's 7.68 bags per acre.... You either made a mistake or need your head examined

Muckit

leg wax wrote: »

muckit you are stocked very low how many cows to the acre

1 cow/ 5 acres. That was last year. Less cows now and more bought in drystock. Better suits current circumstances.

The farm is only 'ticking over' at the mo

Our 'rotation' consists of me going out putting down elec fence and the oul lad going out taking it up!! :rolleyes:

blue5000

Not stocked too tight here, (round the 130kg /ha for nitrates) but try to get the most out of clover. Approx 6 ton last year; 2 ton urea, 2 ton CAN, 2 ton 50% K on 100 acres for roughly 50 su cows and replacements. In reps and can't use Phosphorous

leg wax

adne wrote: »

That's 7.68 bags per acre.... You either made a mistake or need your head examined

when i was in milk i was well over that amount.but if we are to stock sucklers at the rate that they are saying i would be up to this amount no problem,i suppose what i am trying to work out lads is at what price for fert does it not pay to be at a higher stocking rate,eg a bag of can at 10 euros no problem 270 units of nitro for 100 euro i can carry a lot more cows per acre,but at 15 euros a bag for the same 100 euros i am getting 100 less units of nitro so can carry less cows.where is the happy ground in all of this,by the way i am renting 105 acres 70 cows 15 replacements ,at peak in feb wou;d have 160 animals on hands,at the moment i am selling a lot at these high prices,going to wait and buy at the end of the year.

GERMAN ROCKS

adne wrote: »

That's 7.68 bags per acre.... You either made a mistake or need your head examined

no i made a mistake. had an extra 53 acres rented last year but the lease was up this year and the price went too high. so it was 48 tonne to 178 acres. this year im back to my own 125 acres so fert will be back. its all dairying and i used to keep and finish all my own bulls but i have all bulls sold now since i dont have the extra land and just concentrating on dairy. i did a lot of reseeding aswell last year which took 3 bags of 10.10.20 to acre when setting as growth was exceptional and allowedme to reseed double what i normally do.

reilig

GERMAN ROCKS wrote: »

no i made a mistake. had an extra 53 acres rented last year but the lease was up this year and the price went too high. so it was 48 tonne to 178 acres. this year im back to my own 125 acres so fert will be back. its all dairying and i used to keep and finish all my own bulls but i have all bulls sold now since i dont have the extra land and just concentrating on dairy. i did a lot of reseeding aswell last year which took 3 bags of 10.10.20 to acre when setting as growth was exceptional and allowedme to reseed double what i normally do.

That makes a bit more sense to me. What part of the country are you in? Do you feel that you get enough of a return on that much fert??

bob charles

lads your barometer for fert usage versus acreage is a complete non runner. If i posted my figure some would say its a crazy figure for the acreage but we also grow a couple of thousand tons of forage on the acreage. we would be very heavily stocked and never have surplus grass, just this morning im trying to juggle which fields to burn off for cropping. Im aiming this year along with every year to grow more tons of either grass/forage of a smaller acreage. Last year was a disappointment as the sun just didnt shine.

reilig

bob charles wrote: »

lads your barometer for fert usage versus acreage is a complete non runner. If i posted my figure some would say its a crazy figure for the acreage but we also grow a couple of thousand tons of forage on the acreage. we would be very heavily stocked and never have surplus grass, just this morning im trying to juggle which fields to burn off for cropping. Im aiming this year along with every year to grow more tons of either grass/forage of a smaller acreage. Last year was a disappointment as the sun just didnt shine.

The Op's original post was about suckler farms, pasture and silage ground as opposed to crops and forage so if you compare like with like, I think bags per acre is a fairly good comparison. Although it is difficult to allow for variations in land quality.

BeeDI

reilig wrote: »

The Op's original post was about suckler farms, pasture and silage ground as opposed to crops and forage so if you compare like with like, I think bags per acre is a fairly good comparison. Although it is difficult to allow for variations in land quality.

Probably bags per €1000 of stock sold would be a better way to look at it.
Than again you would have to make allowances for bought in fodder if any, and amount of concentrates used.
I'm sort of thinking I should measure total cost of fertilizer, purchased fodder and concentrates plus diesel as a percentage of stock sales in €.
Diesel being for the most part used in fodder production including grazed grass through fertilizer spreading.

I'm definitely going to try one pen of cows next winter with 30% less silage than heretofore and balance out with ration and minerals. Just need to figure out whats an appropriate and reasonable cost ration.

leg wax

ok thanks for your replies,now lets just say you guys were to double your stocking rate as the ideal farm with justin mcarthy what fert would you guys have to apply.

BeeDI

leg wax wrote: »

ok thanks for your replies,now lets just say you guys were to double your stocking rate as the ideal farm with justin mcarthy what fert would you guys have to apply.

I'd get Justin out, stick a fork in one hand, and a shovel in the other, and tell him report back in one year, with twice the number of cattle on the land as yiu gave him day one:cool: All alive:P