Can A Guard Drive Your Car?

SupraSonic_26

Im just wondering as seen alot of people ask this but no definate answer or exactly wat the law shows about this. I remember seeing somewhere i think on facebook that a solicitor or some politician i think finding a legal loophool where a guard legally cant drive your car. I know if its not taxed shouldnt be on the road but if it cant be transported like a modified car does it state in the law that a guard is legally covered and can tell you without question give keys over and they drive it are they insured?

seamus

Yes, a Garda is allowed to drive your vehicle in the course of his duties. Although they are still required to comply with the provisions of the RTA in relation to insurance, they are covered by the state to drive practically any vehicle as required by their job.

SupraSonic_26

but where does it fall under in the law printed that you can find this information to the public just owndering thanks?

listermint

Pay your car tax and your car wont get taken off you.


Simples. Its either the guard takes it or it gets put on the back of a tow truck where i assume there are fees associated with that.

Which one would you like ?

SupraSonic_26

listermint wrote: »

Pay your car tax and your car wont get taken off you.


Simples. Its either the guard takes it or it gets put on the back of a tow truck where i assume there are fees associated with that.

Which one would you like ?

did i say anything about my car not being taxed no its a general question i was wondering about about my car is fully road legally, im asking where does it show in the law that in fine print the procedures i.e no tax or nct or bald tyre that a guard can just take your keys off and take your property.Where or what heading in motor vechicle law does this go under?

seamus

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

did i say anything about my car not being taxed no its a general question i was wondering about about my car is fully road legally, im asking where does it show in the law that in fine print the procedures i.e no tax or nct or bald tyre that a guard can just take your keys off and take your property.Where or what heading in motor vechicle law does this go under?

For tax,
Road Traffic Act, Section 41

And SI 89/1995, article 4:

Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that an offence to which section 41 (1) of the Act refers is being or has been committed in respect of the driving or use of a mechanically propelled vehicle, such member may take such steps, including the making of an arrangement with any other person as the member thinks fit, for the detention, removal and storage of the said vehicle.

SupraSonic_26

cheers seamus wonder if that falls under nct or they think if your car is not road worthy aswell.

Mycroft H

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

cheers seamus wonder if that falls under nct or they think if your car is not road worthy aswell.

Well given that an NCT is in the eyes of the law a cetificate of road worthiness akin to the DOE test for commercial vehicles, I would imagine so.

Turner

Gardai can also drive your car/vehicle to test if it is road worthy.

They are full covered under state insurance to drive it.

Don't worry if it is damaged it will be covered.

SupraSonic_26

say you have everything tho guard thinks your tyre is bald should they not give you a chance to change it or again this fall under road worthyness or if they think your car is unsafe i.e too low. The only time you can be charged for a guard taking our car is impond fee of 125 euro?

Anan1

I think the OP is wondering whether a Garda can drive your car against your will?

L-M

listermint wrote: »

Pay your car tax and your car wont get taken off you.


Simples. Its either the guard takes it or it gets put on the back of a tow truck where i assume there are fees associated with that.

Which one would you like ?

Do you really think that your post is of any help to the OP or to this thread?

if you don't have an answer for the OP don't post it.

SupraSonic_26

Anan1 wrote: »

I think the OP is wondering whether a Garda can drive your car against your will?

kind of like that i suppose its so vague im trying find out what outcome each different scenario, you think instead they would accompany you in the car back to impound at least instead eaving you at side of the road say if you have eveyrthing on your car and they dont think its road legal they just take it off you leave you walk home?

Turner

Of course they can drive it against your will.

Try and stop them and you could be arrested and prosecuted for obstruction.

SupraSonic_26

see this what annoys me this states make arrangements with another person on how to move they car still doesnt say that a guard can just jump in your car and drive off:

such member may take such steps, including the making of an arrangement with any other person as the member thinks fit, for the detention, removal and storage of the said vehicle.

Anan1

Turner wrote: »

Of course they can drive it against your will.

Try and stop them and you could be arrested and prosecuted for obstruction.

Source?

jonsnow

It appears that they can if they have sufficient grounds but if they get it wrong then you can get a payday.Obviously very unprofessional to just leave people at the side of the road however.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/tycoon-gets-15000-over-car-seizure-by-gardai-1748809.html

judge has criticised gardai for continuing to contest liability after they seized a Porsche from a millionaire philanthropist, leaving him and his girlfriend stranded at the side of the road.

Retired businessman Sean McCarthy (67) was awarded €15,000 in damages while his Colombian-born partner, Patricia Rodriguez (24), was awarded €4,000 by Judge Jacqueline Linnane in the Circuit Civil Court in Dublin yesterday.

The couple said they will donate the money to the Colombian orphanage where Ms Rodriguez was raised.

The judge said they had been treated appallingly and forced to go through "all this litigation" in which liability had been contested until it could not be contested anymore.

Mr McCarthy had the proper documentation proving his ownership of the Andorran-registered car, valued at €200,000.

Speaking to the Irish Independent last night, the Kerry-born pensioner said the past year had been a "nightmare" and he accused the State of using "every trick in the book" to frustrate their case.

He said he never wanted any money from the State, just an apology.

"To take money from the Irish State is taking it from my fellow brothers and sisters. We just wanted to stop the gardai, who are out of control and treating Irish motorists like this," he said.

The couple, who live in Andorra, were holidaying in Ireland in February last year when they were stopped by gardai on the N3 as they left Blanchardstown Shopping Centre.

Angina

Mr McCarthy claimed he and Ms Rodriguez were told "get out, from here you walk". Mr McCarthy said he suffered an angina attack as he walked up an access ramp.

Garda Gary Quinn from Blanchardstown Station told the court that he and his colleagues, Gardai Grainne Bligh and Donna Walsh, detained the car on suspicion it may have been imported in breach of vehicle registration tax legislation.

Mr McCarthy and Ms Rodriguez claimed damages for negligence, false imprisonment, trespass, defamation, malicious abuse of civil procedures, assault, reckless infliction of emotional suffering and deliberate and conscious abuse of statutory power.

listermint

Limerick man wrote: »

Do you really think that your post is of any help to the OP or to this thread?

if you don't have an answer for the OP don't post it.

I did have an answer, If one pays there car tax and car is roadworthy they get to keep it.

If not YES the Guards can take it and can drive it, Or arrange for it to be taken away by another method.

My post had all the info that others have in theirs.....

djimi

My sister had a crash a few years ago which left her quite shook up, and one of the Gardai who came to the scene drove her home in her car while their colleague followed them back. I assumed that there was no issue with the Garda doing this.

SupraSonic_26

Turner wrote: »

Of course they can drive it against your will.

Try and stop them and you could be arrested and prosecuted for obstruction.

so that mean they can just walk into your house and take stuff when they feel like it, they need a warrent. the statement says that guard must make arrangements to have the car impounded by another perons not just him tak your keys and drive off cos he feels your car is unroad worthy or if your waiting for nct to be done and its out by a day or two.

L-M

listermint wrote: »

I did have an answer, If one pays there car tax and car is roadworthy they get to keep it.

If not YES the Guards can take it and can drive it, Or arrange for it to be taken away by another method.

My post had all the info that others have in theirs.....

The OP mentioned the tax situation, but there are many other situations where a car could be taken off you and the car be fully legal.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

My sister had a crash a few years ago which left her quite shook up, and one of the Gardai who came to the scene drove her home in her car while their colleague followed them back. I assumed that there was no issue with the Garda doing this.

Anyone can drive with the consent of the car owner.;)

djimi

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

so that mean they can just walk into your house and take stuff when they feel like it, they need a warrent. the statement says that guard must make arrangements to have the car impounded by another perons not just him tak your keys and drive off cos he feels your car is unroad worthy or if your waiting for nct to be done and its out by a day or two.

I dont know what the law says but regardless they are not going to impound your car for having the NCT out by a day or two... And if it is genuinely unroadworthy then even they shouldnt be driving it and they would call a truck to pick it up.

And of course they need to have a reason if they want to impound your car; why would you think they would just walk up to you and take the keys from you?

listermint

irregardless, I answered the post. Guards can drive your car. I couldnt have been clearer.

It seems apparent to me the OP is looking for a loophole which would allow them to circumnavigate what an officer of the law is allowed to do, or to challenge an officer of the law against taking a illegally road worthy vehicle (be it tax nct or some other road worthyness)

So i challenge the OP to show what they need this information for as they have not given a good account of why and the situation, which leaves responders unclear as to what they are answering.

SupraSonic_26

Limerick man wrote: »

The OP mentioned the tax situation, but there are many other situations where a car could be taken off you and the car be fully legal.

exactly ive had one guard tried to say my car was too low on standard suspension it wasnt even modified jsut had 19s on it and was miles away form the arch no way would i let him take my car:

if Mr McCarthy and Ms Rodriguez claimed damages for negligence, false imprisonment, trespass, defamation, malicious abuse of civil procedures, assault, reckless infliction of emotional suffering and deliberate and conscious abuse of statutory power

why couldnt i under a guard making an assumtion hes not a mechanic and again goes back to what ive said this falls under very vague:

such member may take such steps, including the making of an arrangement with any other person as the member thinks fit, for the detention, removal and storage of the said vehicle.

still doesnt give him the right just take my keys and drive away in my car.

L-M

listermint wrote: »

Pay your car tax and your car wont get taken off you.


Simples. Its either the guard takes it or it gets put on the back of a tow truck where i assume there are fees associated with that.

Which one would you like ?

The above is not an answer with any facts attached to it, you also state "Where i assume" in your post. That's not an answer. Some people don't want other people driving their cars (Myself included) And if there is a way where the OP can request a tow truck collects a car rather than someone drive it so be it.

You haven't answered the question, and i would suggest you leave it now.

listermint wrote: »

irregardless, I answered the post. Guards can drive your car. I couldnt have been clearer.

It seems apparent to me the OP is looking for a loophole which would allow them to circumnavigate what an officer of the law is allowed to do, or to challenge an officer of the law against taking a illegally road worthy vehicle (be it tax nct or some other road worthyness)

So i challenge the OP to show what they need this information for as they have not given a good account of why and the situation, which leaves responders unclear as to what they are answering.

djimi

On a related note, you see it in the movies where a cop runs up to someone and grabs their car off them so they can go chase after someone. Can that happen in real life? Might be a stupid question but its something Ive genuinely always wondered!!! :pac:

Tefral

Anan1 wrote: »

Anyone can drive with the consent of the car owner.;)

They can drive it but not necessarly legally...

Most of the time peoples insurance covers someone driving a car 3rd party or the car owners own insurance covers drivers who are necessary for the repair or upkeep of the vehicle.. ie a mechanic.


You can force them to take a truck, i have done it a couple of times. Mind you I just "lost the keys". The law is very vague as it usually is in this matter.

Legally though the Gardai can drive your car to test its roadworthiness.. This test might just take it past the impound...

Marty McFly

On the whole you can force them to call a truck to take your car, ive heard differing versions of who foots the bill for the truck?

Tefral

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

why couldnt i under a guard making an assumtion hes not a mechanic and again goes back to what ive said this falls under very vague:


still doesnt give him the right just take my keys and drive away in my car.

But he is allowed

Road traffic act 1961 section 20

Where a member of the Garda Síochána observes a mechanically propelled vehicle or combination of vehicles in a public place and he suspects that there is a defect affecting the vehicle or combination which is such that it is, when in use, a danger to the public or, in the case of a public service vehicle, there is a defect affecting it which is such that either it is a danger to the public or it is rendered unfit for the carriage of passengers, he may inspect and examine the vehicle or combination and, for the purpose of carrying out the inspection and examination, may do all such things and make all such requirements in relation to it as are reasonably necessary.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) of this section and without prejudice to the generality of the powers conferred thereby, a member of the Garda Síochána may—

(a) require the person in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle or combination of vehicles to bring it to a convenient place indicated by the member suitable for the carrying out of an inspection and examination under this section and not more than five miles distant by the shortest available route from the place at which the requisition is made, and to carry the member in the vehicle or combination,

(b) drive a mechanically propelled vehicle or combination of vehicles for a reasonable time and distance,

(c) require the person in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle or combination of vehicles to drive it or cause it to be driven for a reasonable time and distance in such direction and manner and at such speed as the member directs, and to carry the member in it while it is being so driven,

(d) carry out or cause to be carried out such tests as the member considers reasonable.

Anan1

cronin_j wrote: »

Legally though the Gardai can drive your car to test its roadworthiness.. This test might just take it past the impound...

Can they, against your will? Any chance of a link to the relevant law?

SupraSonic_26

listermint wrote: »

irregardless, I answered the post. Guards can drive your car. I couldnt have been clearer.

It seems apparent to me the OP is looking for a loophole which would allow them to circumnavigate what an officer of the law is allowed to do, or to challenge an officer of the law against taking a illegally road worthy vehicle (be it tax nct or some other road worthyness)

So i challenge the OP to show what they need this information for as they have not given a good account of why and the situation, which leaves responders unclear as to what they are answering.

im not looking for a loophole im looking for clear outlined statement that actaully says a gard can jump iny our car and drive your property. im not trying to get out of avoiding not having tax or nct yes the car should be taken but not by a guard when this statement cearly doesnt say this is says the arragnement:

such member may take such steps, including the making of an arrangement with any other person as the member thinks fit, for the detention, removal and storage of the said vehicle

Tefral

Anan1 wrote: »

Can they, against your will? Any chance of a link to the relevant law?

refer to post 30

Tefral

OSI wrote: »

From what I remember every insurance I policy I've had has explicitly excluded cover to members of the motors trade including mechanics.

Every single one ive ever seen includes cover for those that are "neccessary for the upkeep or overhaul of the vehicle" and ive seen lots!!

Anan1

cronin_j wrote: »

refer to post 30

Thanks, don't know how I missed that!

SupraSonic_26

does a guard do a mechanics course tho just because he drives it doesnt mean he can tell if it is ok or not the law is so vague its just crazy.

Tefral

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

does a guard do a mechanics course tho just because he drives it doesnt mean he can tell if it is ok or not the law is so vague its just crazy.

He doesnt need to. Gardai in Templemore receive a degree in policing studies, this requires them to have knowledge of the law they are upholding.

The requirements of the road traffic act and the Construction, equipment and use of vehicles regulations outline exactly what is deemed not roadworthy on a vehicle. If they know this then thats all they need.

Anyway even the most mechanically retarded people I know, know whats safe and dangerous.

SupraSonic_26

I agree if its blantant to see yes never new they did that course in there but does that cover how many inches your car needs to be off the road in what they do. Its just handy knowing these things i suppose.

Kevwoody

Where's CiniO with his endless supply of knowledge when you need him?

Tefral

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

I agree if its blantant to see yes never new they did that course in there but does that cover how many inches your car needs to be off the road in what they do. Its just handy knowing these things i suppose.

Ill refer you to read the Road Traffic "Construction, equipment and use of vehicles" regulations 1963

Tefral

OSI wrote: »

From the Aviva policy Booklet

More often that not if you read your cert its different. The policy booklet is only a general guide, the cert is specific to the individual.

I remember it saying something before about only me being insured,when i read my certificate, it listed 3 types of individuals who could drive under my insurance.

listermint

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

I agree if its blantant to see yes never new they did that course in there but does that cover how many inches your car needs to be off the road in what they do. Its just handy knowing these things i suppose.

What is the explicit issue with your vehicle? Was their heavy modification done to it after NCT, has it passed the NCT with these modifications.

Ive done a hell of alot of driving over my life and been around the block a few times. Ive yet to see a guard take someones car away without due reason be it the vehicle or the way the vehicle has been driven.

As has been posted already here it clearly states in the RTA of 1994 that a member can take your car or arrange for its detention at their discretion subject to other relevant details within the act.

All detailed here

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/si/0460.html


What i am asking is what is the actual issue that has left you to be in a situation where this Act needs to be brought to bear. Specifics?

Tefral

listermint wrote: »

What i am asking is what is the actual issue that has left you to be in a situation where this Act needs to be brought to bear. Specifics?

Ya this would be good to know, in general there is alot of ways out of things using the law

bohsfan

SupraSonic_26 wrote: »

such member may take such steps, including the making of an arrangement with any other person as the member thinks fit, for the detention, removal and storage of the said vehicle

Hiya OP,

You keep making reference to the above piece and saying that it means a Garda cannot drive your car but only some intermediary. I would put it to you that you may have taken that sentence up wrong. If you read it this way:

"such member may take such steps (including the making of an arrangement with any other person as the member thinks fit), for the detention, removal and storage of the said vehicle"

This would mean that the Garda could drive the vehicle in order to detain it themselves, or arrange for someone else to do it. That would be my reading of it anyways.

blackwhite

bohsfan wrote: »

Hiya OP,

You keep making reference to the above piece and saying that it means a Garda cannot drive your car but only some intermediary. I would put it to you that you may have taken that sentence up wrong. If you read it this way:

"such member may take such steps (including the making of an arrangement with any other person as the member thinks fit), for the detention, removal and storage of the said vehicle"

This would mean that the Garda could drive the vehicle in order to detain it themselves, or arrange for someone else to do it. That would be my reading of it anyways.

I think you're right. If the law was intended to prevent the guard from taking the vehicle himself it would state "...may take such steps for the making of an arrangement with any other person..."
The word "including" implies that making arrangements for another person is just one option they may take. As such, an arrangement for the removal of said vehicle would clearly include removing the vehicle themselves is appropriate.