Ryanairs new seat reservations policy

homerjay2005

first off, im one of ryanairs biggest fans and i normally defend them to the hills on here, i used them about 60 times a year.

however, their recent venture to pre book the emergency exit seats, concerns me. twice in the last 4 weeks, ive been on flights that have been 95% full, but the emergency seats were the ones not used. surely this is a safety concern and the exit rows should be filled first, once they know they have not been pre booked?

i normally wait until the queue is gone to board the plane, meaning im one of the last onto the plane and recently, despite their not being seats available for my group to sit together, weve been refused to sit in these seats, leaving them empty for the flight. one one occasion, the stewards told us "get out of there" in a very rude manner, which we have since complained about, so obviously they are under strict instructions not to allow people to sit there, unless the have paid for it or the flight is 100% full

so, in the event of an emergency, who will open the doors? are they ensuring that the people who sit in the seats immediately next to the doors are not children/mobility impared so that there are no delays to open the doors. are they telling those people, how to open the doors?

surely this practice is not allowed?

Xpro

same happend to me, we boarded and the emergency seats were empty. After we took off i asked if i could move the seats to emergency.
No Sir you havent paid the reservation for those seats. a bit over the top if you ask me. Aerlingus has pretty much the same policy, but they have no problem you sitting there if the seats are unoccupied

scudzilla

All seems a bit ridiculous to me. In the event of a crash it's always been said that seconds saves lives, as in the quicker the doors open the more lives saved. If nobody is sitting in these seats then that could well cost peoples lives in the event of a crash.

CricketDude

Take photos and send them to them to whichever safety regulation authority they fall under. eg caa or iaa

Maybe take a video on your phone of the next incident and send it to the media as well as the regulators.

It wont be long until these airlines are doing things like increasing the intervals between maintenance services on the planes either. Its a race to the bottom - at 500mph.

highlydebased

Apparently they are already being investigated because of it http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/9155324/Ryanair-investigated-over-10-charge-for-exit-seats.html

lord lucan

Not sure how much truth there is to it but I was told in work that the IAA are looking into this

Edit :looks like it's true so.

sbsquarepants

When did this come in? I usually get the priority boarding to avoid the que and then make a beeline for the emergency seats! I haven't flown since January though, there was no problem then. How much does it cost?

I'm also generally a big fan of ryanair, i always find it amazing the way people complain about how badly they treat their customers, all the while forgetting that before they came about, aer lingus and co, treated theirs fantastically by charging £300+ to fly to bloody England! But that was fine cos they gave you a sandwich and a cup of tea!
If you buy the sambo and the tea off ryanair, you're still 200 quid better off, do you still think aer lingus gave it to you for free!!:)

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It is a safety risk and as mentioned the IAA are "apparently ??" looking into this.

Briefing people sitting in the rows forward or aft of the emergency exits seats on how to operate the door is not good enough in my opinion, especially as these people may not the able bodied.

Cop on Ryanair!

COYW

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I usually get the priority boarding to avoid the que and then make a beeline for the emergency seats!

Was just thinking the same thing the other week when I last flew Ryanair. I don't think you can access the emergency rows with priority boarding. So is it more cost effective to buy the seat as opposed to priority boarding?

Zyox

COYW wrote: »

Was just thinking the same thing the other week when I last flew Ryanair. I don't think you can access the emergency rows with priority boarding. So is it more cost effective to buy the seat as opposed to priority boarding?

I'm pretty sure buying the seat gives you priority boarding included.
Even if it doesn't what's the rush? Board last and walk to your seat.

Apart from that I don't like this "no-one in the emergency seats unless paid for" nonsense one bit. Should be like Aer Lingus. If they're empty a passenger should be moved there to operate the exit in case of emergency. That's just common sense.

eagerv

Flew with Air Asia last week and they operate the same system as Ryanair. ie, you only sit at an emergency exit if you have paid extra, albeit a lot less than Ryanair. They call them red seats, because of their colour. All these seats were empty on my two flights, something I did not feel comfortable with.

Otherwise Air Asia was a very pleasant experience, a fellow passenger was celebrating his birthday and was called up to front and given present, cake etc!

Neworder79

Where can you book seats on Ryanair site, I see reference to it in their rules pages but no way to actually book them?

thebiglad

Neworder79 wrote: »

Where can you book seats on Ryanair site, I see reference to it in their rules pages but no way to actually book them?

Certain routes only presently but no doubt will be rolled out. If they are an option be sure that Ryanair will ensure you have to deslect these too:p

APM

thebiglad wrote: »

Certain routes only presently but no doubt will be rolled out. If they are an option be sure that Ryanair will ensure you have to deslect these too:p

Its all routes now, done when buying your ticket or added as a manage my booking

mp22

Is it possible when you are on the flight to hand over the tenner and sit in the seat?

sunnysoutheast

Xpro wrote: »

same happend to me, we boarded and the emergency seats were empty. After we took off i asked if i could move the seats to emergency.
No Sir you havent paid the reservation for those seats. a bit over the top if you ask me. Aerlingus has pretty much the same policy, but they have no problem you sitting there if the seats are unoccupied

Every Aer Lingus flight I've been on which has had an empty exit row has had the cabin crew offer the seat next to the exit to passengers to ensure it has an occupant. It is his or her job to open the exit if it's safe to do so there is no ambiguity. If there's nobody sitting there then you can easily imagine everyone piling in to the row and nobody being able to open it.

I wouldn't like to fly on an aircraft that had an unattended exit row. When I used to fly a lot to Sweden I often used to get a late-night flight which was basically a positioning flight for the morning, SAS were very insistent on having all exits "manned" and there was often only about 20 people on the 737.

This practice could come back to bite somebody.

SSE

L1011

The IAA gave out an Operations memo in January that was very obviously directed at this practice.

APM

mp22 wrote: »

Is it possible when you are on the flight to hand over the tenner and sit in the seat?

No. As some of the time the crew do not have info on if the seats are sold or not until the last passenger boards and hasn't got a boarding card with a reserved seat

bk

Flew to Eindhoven and back via Ryanair this weekend.

Not only were the emergency seats not occupied, but I was seated aisle side directly behind the middle emergency row and no one was asked if they would be comfortable operating the emergency doors, nor was anyone instructed in how to operate the emergency doors :eek:

Actually on the way back, the cabin crew seemed to be very rushed, they rushed through the safety briefing haphazardly (one even stopped to talk to a passenger mid way through!!) and it was barely audible!!

To be honest I found the whole experience to be quiet unsettling.

Also the system in Dublin Airport seemed crazy. Was near the front of the queue for boarding so ended up on the first bus which was very crowded. The first bus arrived at the plane, but didn't leave everyone out, instead we were made to wait there 15 minutes until the second and third buses came (much less packed) and they left out all the passengers off the second and third buses before leaving us board!!

Seems crazy, I can't think of any operational reason why they would do this or anyway that it saves or makes them money. Actually the opposite, in future I certainly won't rush to board, instead sit and wait till the end. If everyone starts doing the same, then surely it will increase their boarding times and thus reduce their efficiency.

Is this a normal practice at DAA now or just a once off?

IngazZagni

Buses will be the exception rather than the norm but apparently it is a good bit cheaper for Ryanair to park at stands requiring buses than using the regular stands that don't.

I used the buses once, they took the priority passengers on the first bus and then squashed everyone else into the rest but it was in order though.

Kapellmeister

I also noticed this on my latest Ryanair flights. Although, more worryingly, on my last return flight, each of the 3 tables were left extended to prevent people sitting in the seats, and were left like this for the entire duration of the flight. I thought this was even worse than not allowing people to sit in them. The people immediately infront of, and behind, the emergency rows were informed that they were the nearest people to the exits before takeoff.

cml387

Can an expert on here state whether emergency exits are required to be occupied?
I had a quick look at FAA FAR regs but couldn't find anything specific.

IngazZagni

Kapellmeister wrote: »

I also noticed this on my latest Ryanair flights. Although, more worryingly, on my last return flight, each of the 3 tables were left extended to prevent people sitting in the seats, and were left like this for the entire duration of the flight. I thought this was even worse than not allowing people to sit in them. The people immediately infront of, and behind, the emergency rows were informed that they were the nearest people to the exits before takeoff.

The emergency exit rows don't have tray tables on the back of the seats so that wouldn't be the case. Sometimes the forward and aft rows are blocked off using the tray tables to stop people sitting there but that is for weight and balance reasons.

cml387 wrote: »

Can an expert on here state whether emergency exits are required to be occupied?
I had a quick look at FAA FAR regs but couldn't find anything specific.

There is no regulation that requires people to sit at these seats however the people sitting closest to them need to be informed and questioned if they are willing to operate the exit doors in the event of an emergency. An investigation was started recently by the IAA to see whether or not this could be a safety concern.

Kapellmeister

The emergency exit rows don't have tray tables on the back of the seats so that wouldn't be the case. Sometimes the forward and aft rows are blocked off using the tray tables to stop people sitting there but that is for weight and balance reasons.

Thanks for clarifying. No. What I meant was that the armrest trays were deployed to stop people sitting in these seats (over-wing exits). I know it does not block the path but it surely further restricts movement in an already restricted space.

Tenger

Kapellmeister wrote: »

............. Although, more worryingly, on my last return flight, each of the 3 tables were left extended to prevent people sitting in the seats, and were left like this for the entire duration of the flight. I thought this was even worse than not allowing people to sit in them.......

I would think that this was very very bad practise......... a call to the IAA with dates and flight numbers might be in order.

coylemj

IngazZagni wrote: »

The emergency exit rows don't have tray tables on the back of the seats so that wouldn't be the case.

Are you referring specifically to Ryanair? Last time I sat in an emergency exit row with someone other than Ryanair, there were tables in the back of the seats but there was a subtle difference to the release catch - instead of being capable of being swivelled clockwise or anticlockwise, there was a screw inserted on one side which prevented the catch from releasing the table caused by an exiting passenger brushing against the catch heading to the emergency exit.

So on the port (left) row, the catch holding the table in position couldn't be swung clockwise meaning that if the catch was struck by someone's right elbow, it wouldn't move and therefore wouldn't cause the table to drop and impair the flow of people exiting.

I can't remember which airline or aircraft type it was, most likely an Aer Lingus Airbus, haven't flown Ryanair for a few years.

IngazZagni

coylemj wrote: »

Are you referring specifically to Ryanair? Last time I sat in an emergency exit row with someone other than Ryanair, there were tables in the back of the seats but there was a subtle difference to the release catch - instead of being capable of being swivelled clockwise or anticlockwise, there was a screw inserted on one side which prevented the catch from releasing the table caused by an exiting passenger brushing against the catch heading to the emergency exit.

So on the port (left) row, the catch holding the table in position couldn't be swung clockwise meaning that if the catch was struck by someone's right elbow, it wouldn't move and therefore wouldn't cause the table to drop and impair the flow of people exiting.

I can't remember which airline or aircraft type it was, most likely an Aer Lingus Airbus, haven't flown Ryanair for a few years.

Yes I'm referring specifically to Ryanair. Other airlines have slightly different tables like what you mention. Ryanair has a table stored in the armrest which doesn't bulge out in front of the seat so in theory it shouldn't block anyone's exit should it be extended during an emergency although it wouldn't be ideal.

Tenger wrote: »

I would think that this was very very bad practise......... a call to the IAA with dates and flight numbers might be in order.

And this is would be the IAA's reaction on getting such an email/letter as is everything else they get.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/071/874/notasingle.jpg

triggermortis

yet another reason not to fly Ryanair as far as I'm concerened

dowlingm

Folks, I'm not saying pix or it didn't happen but it is important that this sort of thing be documented or else FR will just keep on doing it so keep the camera phones (data service and flash turned off obv) handy.

bkehoe

Interesting to see that there's an article in next Tuesdays 'Flight International' magazine about this practice from Ryanair.

In summary it says that the IAA are investigating whether passengers are re-seated to be adjacent to the emergency exits for taxi, take-off and landing or not as this is required for safety.

So if anybody flys Ryanair take a picture of the exit rows if they're kept empty and send it to the IAA.

Thoie

I think if I was asked on a flight if I was willing to man the exits I'd just say "No, not unless I'm sitting there for the entire duration of the flight to allow myself to become familiar with their operation".

If everyone said that, they'd be a bit screwed and would end up having to move *someone* (not necessarily me) into those seats.

AfterDusk

Ryanair can't bring out these new policies and procedures without contacting the IAA and getting their approval in the first place. You can't just invent rules & practices all on your own & just implement them whenever you want. The IAA have to approve it all first. They wouldn't be doing it if it was against safety rules & regs.

L1011

neil2304 wrote: »

Ryanair can't bring out these new policies and procedures without contacting the IAA and getting their approval in the first place. You can't just invent rules & practices all on your own & just implement them whenever you want. The IAA have to approve it all first. They wouldn't be doing it if it was against safety rules & regs.

I think the IAA investigation shows us that Ryanair did not contact the IAA; and that it is against their rules. You may want to read the whole thread.

And as I mentioned earlier, the IAA issued a reminder notice of the regulations 7 weeks ago:

http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=93&n=97&a=225&pp=470&nn=283&lID=948

scudzilla

From the IAA report

3.2.1 It is IAA policy that passenger seats immediately adjacent to self help emergency exits are occupied during taxi, take-off and landing. This will ensure a speedy and efficient response should a situation arise which warrants an emergency evacuation of the aeroplane. Operations Manual procedures shall take into account the suitability criteria and any restrictions for certain categories of passengers.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Ryanair asked someone to sit in the seats for just taxi, take off & landing, but told them to move back to there own seats during the flight!

bkehoe

I'm wondering though if "IAA Policy" is legally defined as a regulation or if its a 'best operating practice' or something similar that while requested by them doesn't have a legal basis and is thus the reason Ryanair claim they're complying with all safety regulations?

bk

Yes, the Ryanair flight I was on also had the tables deployed at these seats, to block passengers from using them.

Also, again, despite me sitting at the aisle directly behind the empty emergency exit row, I wasn't asked or instructed in how to use the emergency exit doors, nor was anyone else.

I will report this to the IAA. I travel Ryanair often, but for the first time I really did feel unsafe traveling with them.

cson

This unfortunately is probably the kind of thing that will only be taken care of once an incident happens. Same as the seatbelts on the buses thing.

coylemj

The last time I sat right beside the exit door, one of the cabin crew came up to me and my travelling companions before takeoff and asked me if I was ok to open the door in an emergency. I took it that the request was made for a number of reasons...

1. That she had some interaction with me to make sure that I wasn't p**ed drunk

2. That from the brief conversation I appeared intelligent enough to read the instructions on the panel and carry them out

3. To assess that I was physically able to lift the panel and push it out if needed i.e. that I wasn't physically disabled or carrying an injury like my arm in a sling

Leaving the row of seats empty clearly means that there is no knowing who is going to get to the emergency door first and if there is any smoke, even a physically able person might have a problem reading the instructions, something which could delay the evacuation and ultimately costs lives.

What I'm thinking of is that someone who is the worse for drink ends up first at the emergency exit, can't figure out how to open it without a handle to turn and causes a pileup in the panic.

cml387

Having an manned exit does not guarantee a speedy exit.
In the Manchester air disaster,one of the passengers was seen attempting to open an overwing exit by trying to pull on the "EXIT" light above the door.
When it was finally opened by another passenger it fell back onto her,trapping her temporarily underneath and causing more delay.

There is a case for only having strapping six foot men trained in opening and throwing out the door in case of emergency,but of course we never expect an accident to happen,do we?

coylemj

cml387 wrote: »

Having an manned exit does not guarantee a speedy exit.
In the Manchester air disaster,one of the passengers was seen attempting to open an overwing exit by trying to pull on the "EXIT" light above the door.
When it was finally opened by another passenger it fell back onto her,trapping her temporarily underneath and causing more delay.

Neither of which would happen nowadays provided that someone was seated beside the emergency exit during the flight in which case they woud have time to study the pictorial instructions showing how the panel is removed and then chucked out.

If there is nobody seated beside the exit during the flight then there is a major risk that precisely what you described happened in Munich could happen again, especially if there is smoke in the cabin when the passengers need to exit and some poor soul has to try to read the instructions with panicking people behind him.

APM

cml387 wrote: »

Having an manned exit does not guarantee a speedy exit.
In the Manchester air disaster,one of the passengers was seen attempting to open an overwing exit by trying to pull on the "EXIT" light above the door.
When it was finally opened by another passenger it fell back onto her,trapping her temporarily underneath and causing more delay.

There is a case for only having strapping six foot men trained in opening and throwing out the door in case of emergency,but of course we never expect an accident to happen,do we?

On the 737-800 you do not need any great strength to open the overwing exit, and it opens outward and upward away from the passengers, self contained to the aircraft. So it does not need to be thrown away etc

LLU

I see they've now been ordered to fill those seats :

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ryanair-told-to-fill-unpaidfor-seats-at-emergency-exits-3112300.html

RYANAIR has been told that passengers must sit beside emergency exits -- even if they haven't paid the €10 charged by the airline for the seats, which have more leg room.
The Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) says the seats must have a passenger sitting in them at all times to open the safety doors in case of an emergency.
Having nobody beside the exits could result in an "inadequate level of safety" and "hinder or delay" evacuation, the air safety chiefs said.
Ryanair and other airlines charge passengers extra to sit on these seats, but the IAA was worried the budget airline was leaving the seats vacant if no customers paid the charge.
It has now directed the airline to change its policy.
"They have to make sure the seats are occupied, whether they are paid for or not," an IAA spokeswoman said.
A letter from IAA, sent to other European airline regulators and the European Commission, says it has no objection to the extra €10 -- but does not want the seats left empty.
And it has now directed Ryanair to have people in the emergency aisles at all times, meaning some passengers could get a more comfortable seat without forking out €10, if the seats haven't already been taken.
The letter, seen by the Irish Independent, says: "An Irish air operator introduced a procedure which does not permit passengers to occupy certain seats if an extra charge is not paid".
Not allowing people in the seats "resulted on occasions in seats at overwing emergency exits (self help) being left unmanned for taxi, take off and landing. The authority has identified this as a problem resulting in an inadequate level of safety that can hinder or delay the passenger evacuation process in the event of an emergency."
Emergency exit seats are usually in the first four rows and in the middle of a plane. The seats are popular because they offer more leg room. Because of the IAA's ruling, Ryanair said it will change its rules. Stephen McNamara, the airline's spokesman, said: "We are revising our boarding procedures and briefing our crews at all bases to comply with this requirement from June 1, 2012".
- Fiach Kelly Political Correspondent

IngazZagni

An absolutely correct decision by the IAA I think. The new IAA directive states that at least one passenger must be seated at each of the 4 overwing exit rows.

Su Campu

Ryanair really are a pack of chancers, and will try anything if they can get away with it. And why wait until June 1st to implement it? Do it NOW!

Just something I noticed. The briefing is to determine the passengers' suitability to assist in an emergency. So imagine Joe has paid his money to sit there but they deem him not suitable? Do you really think they're going to ask him to vacate it and have to reimburse him the 10 quid he paid for the seat? Nope. That's money in their pocket, so they'll leave him where he is and hope he isn't called into action. Cutting corners for safety's sake. Luckily they've been found out.

Prior to the commencement of taxi, an operator shall ensure that cabin crew conduct an appropriate awareness briefing for those passengers seated immediately adjacent to self help emergency exits. This abbreviated briefing shall determine the passengers’ suitability to occupy the seats and seek their consent to assist in an emergency evacuation should the need arise. The passengers shall be advised to read and understand the operating instructions for the self help emergency exits, which are located on the exit placards and the passenger safety briefing cards.
It shall be made clear to the passengers in the briefing that such exits are designated as “self help emergency exits” and there will be no cabin crewmember presence at them.

On a more general note, I really don't see why people are so hung up on what seat they get anyway, unless they're traveling with young kids, etc. People willingly pay extra for "Priority" boarding, yet complain about other charges they have to pay. If you're at the end of the priority queue then you could have just instead gotten to the front of the "Other Pax" queue and you'd save yourself a few quid!

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So imagine Joe has paid his money to sit there but they deem him not suitable? Do you really think they're going to ask him to vacate it and have to reimburse him the 10 quid he paid for the seat? Nope.

Actually saw this happen yesterday. Lets say a large gentleman had booked an emergency exit seat. The CC asked him to move for takeoff and landing to another seat due to his size. He had no problem with it and she mentioned he could return to his seat after takeoff which he didn't bother doing.

Point is when you book an emergency exit seat it states you must be an able bodied passenger. He clearly wasn't so its his fault.