Honest question to seasoned golfers.

MyKeyG

Went for a round yesterday with two friends. Two of us are only playing 6 months but the other is playing years and claims to have a handicap of 12. Now fair enough he shot 80 on a 69 course which is a great score but in the past few months I've painstakingly studied and practised the swing. I was watching yer mans swing yesterday and it seemed completely off. He had a short back swing on every shot and appeared to lash at the ball with very little follow through. His distances were atrocious, I out drove him on most holes. Now I'm no-one to judge but you often hear people say a golfer will only get so far on his own swing. He'll get proficient but that's it and it got me to thinking about the psychology of it all.

Honest question, how many of you would say 'yes I know my swing is poor but I play off a 9 and I'm happy with that, sure tis only a bit a craic'?

Russman

I think people should be more focused on a swing being "repeatable" as opposed to "good" or "pretty".

Very few of the great players had so-called textbook swings. eg you certainly wouldn't teach anyone to swing like Trevino. In the modern game look at Tommy Gainey, ok he's not a "great" player, but he's making a damn good living on the PGA Tour. Even Woods in his heyday wasn't textbook with that massive drop of the head.

It'd be great if we could all swing like McIlroy or Els, but different sizes, shapes, physiology, talent, even ambitions etc etc play a huge role. Everyone swings differently and while fundamentals are obviously important, repeatability is arguably more so.

Plently of good amateurs have iffy swings but find a way to make it work for them.

My tuppence worth anyway

Webbs

too many people get caught up in the whole swing mechanics and basically outthink themselves. Getting the basics right is obvious but from then on dont do a Harrington and analyse absolutely everything fiddling here and there.

A lot of single figure guys will have an Ok swing, some will have a swing of beauty and others a right dogs dinner of a swing. But from 100 in I bet all are pretty damn neat and tidy in getting up and down.

I really dont get your 'yes I know my swing is poor but I play off a 9 and I'm happy with that, sure tis only a bit a craic'? question, are you saying that unless you constantly fiddle with your swing to try and make it perfect tehn your not really a serious golfer?

Its all about how many not how pretty.

bustercherry

MyKeyG wrote: »

Went for a round yesterday with two friends. Two of us are only playing 6 months but the other is playing years and claims to have a handicap of 12. Now fair enough he shot 80 on a 69 course which is a great score but in the past few months I've painstakingly studied and practised the swing. I was watching yer mans swing yesterday and it seemed completely off. He had a short back swing on every shot and appeared to lash at the ball with very little follow through. His distances were atrocious, I out drove him on most holes. Now I'm no-one to judge but you often hear people say a golfer will only get so far on his own swing. He'll get proficient but that's it and it got me to thinking about the psychology of it all.

Honest question, how many of you would say 'yes I know my swing is poor but I play off a 9 and I'm happy with that, sure tis only a bit a craic'?

Interested to know what you shot? Or is it you out drove him on most holes where you didn't put it out of bounds or lose a ball first?

Dr_Colossus

Not me, the beauty of golf is that no matter how good you are you can always improve therefore if it's your swing which is the biggest limiting factor it's what I'd be working on to improve. If I got to 9 I wouldn't be content at stopping there, I'd be trying to get as low as possible and even if physically limited in terms of flexibility and swing speed you can always improve on your short game and save those valuable shots.
In the case of your friend he may have a terrible looking swing but still have plenty of room to improve in terms of distance and consistency. You only have to look at the likes of Furyk and Darcy to see how it's not the aesthetics of the swing which is the key ingredient.
As someone new to the game you appear to have the right frame of mind in terms of learning the basics and developing strong fundamentals which in turn will make progression faster and easier. This in turn will hopefully lead to sub 80 scores in the future.

harpsman

Most amateur golfers havent the time or inclination to go through the hardship of complete swing changes. Im sure theyve all had the lessons anyway and for various reasons have ended up with their own swing. If I was off 9 I wouldnt care what anyone thought of my swing!

MyKeyG

bustercherry wrote: »

Interested to know what you shot? Or is it you out drove him on most holes where you didn't put it out of bounds or lose a ball first?

Yes sorry I meant to say that.

MyKeyG

Dr_Colossus wrote: »

Not me, the beauty of golf is that no matter how good you are you can always improve therefore if it's your swing which is the biggest limiting factor it's what I'd be working on to improve. If I got to 9 I wouldn't be content at stopping there, I'd be trying to get as low as possible and even if physically limited in terms of flexibility and swing speed you can always improve on your short game and save those valuable shots.
In the case of your friend he may have a terrible looking swing but still have plenty of room to improve in terms of distance and consistency. You only have to look at the likes of Furyk and Darcy to see how it's not the aesthetics of the swing which is the key ingredient.
As someone new to the game you appear to have the right frame of mind in terms of learning the basics and developing strong fundamentals which in turn will make progression faster and easier. This in turn will hopefully lead to sub 80 scores in the future.

That pretty much sums up my attitude. I understand what people are saying but when I was watching this guy it wasn't a case that he had a few quirks he seemed to be completely off what I was told in my lessons. He had almost zero lower body movement. His drives were very short and he was taking most of his second shots with a wood even on the par fours. Like I said he plays off a 12 but he's literally at the game 30 years. He used to be in societies and all that sort of thing. I just can't imagine playing 30 years and hanging around the 12 mark.

In all honesty only he can tell you what exactly he's doing and I wasn't going to question him with my 95, it just didn't look to me as if he had any of the fundamentals included.

Kid Charlemagne

Youl find with a lot of guys in the game 30 years that they just dont have the flexibility.
I played with an oul lad in his 70s that could barely clear the ladies teebox - didnt stop him having 8 pars and a birdy though! Invariably where he missed par he walked away with the bogey. He fair schooled us lads that were blasting our drives 100 yards past him!

opinionated3

look at Jim Furyk....possibly one of the most ugliest swings on the circuit imo. Still doesn't stop him being world class. Whatever works for you I guess...

Seves Three Iron

Eamonn Darcy.

Keano

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Youl find with a lot of guys in the game 30 years that they just dont have the flexibility.
I played with an oul lad in his 70s that could barely clear the ladies teebox - didnt stop him having 8 pars and a birdy though! Invariably where he missed par he walked away with the bogey. He fair schooled us lads that were blasting our drives 100 yards past him!

Yup play with a few old lads and they barely hit the ball but it goes straight every time and they are putting for par/bogey and I'm out the back of the green :pac:

charlieIRL

Kid Charlemagne wrote: »

Youl find with a lot of guys in the game 30 years that they just dont have the flexibility.
I played with an oul lad in his 70s that could barely clear the ladies teebox - didnt stop him having 8 pars and a birdy though! Invariably where he missed par he walked away with the bogey. He fair schooled us lads that were blasting our drives 100 yards past him!

had a few identical rounds there last summer, anyone who plays Moate will know PJ, man well into his 70's who lives close to the course. Arrives in his own buggy and ready to play. He only hits the ball about 150 yards due to an old shoulder injury but he hits every single fairway. Putts from off the green and if he doesn't par the hole he'll bogey it!! Par 5's get him though.

PRAF

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be happy with a dodgy looking swing no matter what my handicap. But the game of golf is about scoring, not aesthetics. More power to the 12 handicapper with the dodgy swing. He must have a good short game!

Keano

PRAF wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be happy with a dodgy looking swing no matter what my handicap. But the game of golf is about scoring, not aesthetics. More power to the 12 handicapper with the dodgy swing. He must have a good short game!

This.

Jul3s

Only playing the game 6 months and you're already looking down your nose at others.
Congratulations, I know people playing all their lifes and have yet to achieve this.
Seriously though why would you even care, you can only control your own swing and it's of no importance to you or anyone else what others think of your swing, horses for courses and all that woot woot.

hades

Speaking of playing round with the older generation, i went up to my local course last summer and there was an elderly gentleman (turns out he was 84) in the car park getting ready to go out, i asked him if he wanted to play a few holes and he said he'd love to.

On the first he tee'd off, didn't look like much of a swing but the ball was out the middle. I tee'd off with a nice drive, we both walked up to our balls and he's a good 30m ahead of me. He's next shot he stuck it to the pin, and so the schooling began. I've never played with anyone as good. Turns out to be a 3 handicap at the age of 84, massive distance, deft touch around the greens with a swing that wasn't the prettiest.

Lesson is, never just a player on their age or swing style, this guys broke both stereotypes. Really nice guy aswell, he taught me a lot about the mental aspect of the game that day.

foxyboxer

One name springs immediately to mind.

Moe Norman.

His swing was anything but textbook but he was considered one of the best ball strikers in the game.

Hacker111

Jul3s wrote: »

Only playing the game 6 months and you're already looking down your nose at others.
Congratulations, I know people playing all their lifes and have yet to achieve this.
Seriously though why would you even care, you can only control your own swing and it's of no importance to you or anyone else what others think of your swing, horses for courses and all that woot woot.

give him a break and stop being such a smart ass..... it is a valid question raised and I see the merits in it..... his not looking down anything.....

I play with loads of guys in their 50s and 60s who have played for years but yes OP they have ingrained a semi workable swing after never having a lesson and get limited/restricted results..... most (not all) of these guys cannot and will not ever get lower than the 11/12 mark as they simply don't have the technique to do it......

Good thread;)

FixdePitchmark

I have a bit of a dodgy swing that lacks repeatability, I hope to break 80 soon , but am aware that to improve anymore I would need a big change and about 15 to 20 hours a week at golf. I've made slight changes myself and by recommendations, but I don't think it is worth that extra time. I view it like riding a bike. I'd like to have a level of golf that I can stay around 85 and never go over 90 for most of my life. But, most golfer at this level will break 90 on a bad day. For me to get to and stay in single figures would take a bit of the joy out of golf, as for me it is hard hard work at that level. I have a job, I love golf, I don't need two jobs.

A friend of mine looks great over the ball , but he has been at 18 for 20 years.

A view of mine is that the real time to go all out and change is from 12 to 30 years of age. After that life is too complex to go off doing a Paddy , it means when you turn up to the course you will play crap and not enjoy it for years. Not too many at that age have years to play around with a swing. Perhaps another time is when the kids are well gone or you are single. But , if you are single go into Temple Bar and get yourself a woman .

Anyway , each to their own once you are happy with your lot.

FixdePitchmark

MyKeyG wrote: »

That pretty much sums up my attitude. I understand what people are saying but when I was watching this guy it wasn't a case that he had a few quirks he seemed to be completely off what I was told in my lessons. He had almost zero lower body movement. His drives were very short and he was taking most of his second shots with a wood even on the par fours. Like I said he plays off a 12 but he's literally at the game 30 years. He used to be in societies and all that sort of thing. I just can't imagine playing 30 years and hanging around the 12 mark.

In all honesty only he can tell you what exactly he's doing and I wasn't going to question him with my 95, it just didn't look to me as if he had any of the fundamentals included.

Well, I'll give you a little tip ,

From 95 to break 90 will be hard
From 90 to break 88 will be harder
From 88 to break 86 will be pain and tears
from 86 to break 84 will be like death
from 84 to break 83 will cause you to go back to 86
from 82 to break 81 will be a big break from golf
from 81 to break 80 will always be in your mind
To break 80 could never happen for you.


Best of luck, but if you think you would not be happy at 12 for 30 years , you could be in for a big shock when you get there.

MyKeyG

opinionated3 wrote: »

look at Jim Furyk....possibly one of the most ugliest swings on the circuit imo. Still doesn't stop him being world class. Whatever works for you I guess...

Yes but Jim Furyk (I love his swing by the way) includes the fundamentals to a fairly big extent. Back swing, body, shoulders, follow through etc. My lad just appeared to hack the ball. That's the best way I could describe it.

MyKeyG

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well, I'll give you a little tip ,

From 95 to break 90 will be hard
From 90 to break 88 will be harder
From 88 to break 86 will be pain and tears
from 86 to break 84 will be like death
from 84 to break 83 will cause you to go back to 86
from 82 to break 81 will be a big break from golf
from 81 to break 80 will always be in your mind
To break 80 could never happen for you.


Best of luck, but if you think you would not be happy at 12 for 30 years , you could be in for a big shock when you get there.

No you misunderstand. If in 30 years time I'm still playing at 12 then it won't be for want of a fundamentally sound swing. If 12 is the best I get after that then so be it.

blue note

I think I have a fairly decent swing most of the time. That's not as good as the same dodgy swing all of the time.

To take two examples in the club - I know one guy who's off about 16, same as myself. He has the wierdest looking swing and slices every ball. So he aims left and usually ends up on the fairway or at least near it. I'd hit the ball much longer (usually) and straighter (less usually). We'd arrive at the same score in very different ways, so we're about the same level.

The second example is a guy who plays off 3 or 4. He really doesn't strike the ball that well. But he's consistent in what he does and excellent around the greens.

So to the OP, you can go a long way with a flawed swing. Particularly if you can repeat it.

k.p.h

It's not the swing, it the result.

Well that's the way I would view it, I would never change my swing or worry how it looks if I could hit the ball reasonably accurately, but I can't so I guess I will have to keep changing it until I find something that works.

Would happily take Darcy's swing if I could take his talent too ..

Corkblowin

I've played a lot of inter club golf and always knew what kind of day I was going to have watching my opponents opening tee shot. I would much rather play a guy off 5 with a good looking swing than an older fella with an unorthodox motion but playing off 7/8.

To have gotten to that level means they have confidence that they'll do the same thing over and over, have a good short game, rarely make the big error and, usually, are very determined. Give me a 20 year old hot shot over an old codger any day!!

Trampas