The IRFU and NIQ Players

Clegg

Does anyone else think this result plays into the hands of the IRFU?

We know that they weren't happy with the way we went out to Wales in the WC. After todays demolition job will the IRFU push ahead with their misguided idea to change the implementation of NIQs?

We need prop forwards desperately and our reliance on NIQ props is a worry imo. But on the other hand we wouldn't be getting into the latter stages of the HEC without them. This would be detrimental to Irish rugby as our younger players would not benefit from the experience of a high profile knockout game.

Leinster have 2 quality Irish props in Healy and Ross and are able to call upon VDM as a back up. Munster obviously have the 2 NIQ props as starters and Ulster have Afoa as their starting tighthead.

We need a solution to the prop conundrum but the IRFU method isn't the answer. We would lose our competitiveness in the HEC which would set back Irish rugby. Right now I fear that this result may have given them all the ammumition they need to make their changes.

It mightn't be the answer but I'd like people to suggest alternatives. The bottom line is we need IQ players in key positions like tight head (particularly).

For what its worth I'd go for a compromise type solution for a few seasons until we broaden our base of players. My proposal would be that Irish Qualified player in each province has to start at least 15+ senior games for their provincial senior team and get over 1000 minutes during the season, needs to be more thought out than that but I think a stance has to be made in terms of IQ players getting developed and getting game time. Ok its muscling in on team selection to some extent but it still gives the provinces latitude to play the likes of Botha, Afoa etc. in key matches and start to bring through IQ alternatives.

The provinces will keep picking players to get results as they should but there is no need for the likes of Botha / Afoa / White etc. playing against the likes of Treviso / Dragons especially if Du Preez / Van de Merwe etc. is on the other side.

Also there should be a ban on players like Botha playing provincial A matches (as happened against Connacht A last October) with Marcus Horan and Damien Varley completing the front row. :rolleyes:

its_phil

Clegg wrote: »

We need a solution to the prop conundrum but the IRFU method isn't the answer. We would lose our competitiveness in the HEC which would set back Irish rugby. Right now I fear that this result may have given them all the ammumition they need to make their changes.

I think they should change the policy they are looking to implement with the one per position rule but I do agree with what they are trying to do. I'd like to see a reduction in max amount of NIQ players.

Not sure about the setting back Irish rugby bit because Wales won a grand slam with abysmal HC form.

People need to remember too, this HC success won't last forever. We may have got 4 of last 6 but it could easily happen we dont win one for a few years. It's that fickle a competition. The Heineken Cup is a great tournament and I love it, but it's not the be all and end all when it comes to success for our national team. It helps absolutely with top quality opposition and raising the provinces profile in the European game but I don't think there will be a link between a trophy-less Irish team and HC-less,even semi-final, province in the same way there isn't one between a HC winning team and a 3rd placed Ireland.

The panel on RTE summed it all up for me today post-game, they were spot on in nearly everything they said, although I'm sure I forgot something stupid said.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'd like to see a situation where a province cannot have more than one NIQ per unit trialed for a few years. IE no more than one foreign player in each of front row/lock/backrow/halfback/center/back three and no more than four foreign players total.

I think Leinster could live with that, for next season they have only Nacewa and Strauss contracted and Strauss wouldn't count because he qualifies for Ireland early in the season. They would be able to fill their needs by signing a second row and ambipropsterous front row forward who could compete with McGrath/Hagan.

Ulster too could live with it but may struggle with just 4 NIQs, Afoa, Muller, Pienaar Payne which would mean that the out of contract Wannenberg would have to move on.

Munster may struggle since both starting props are NIQ and there isn't an IQ option that is really feasible. However they would manage ok with the only 4 NIQs part of the rule.

Clegg

its_phil wrote: »

I think they should change the policy they are looking to implement with the one per position rule but I do agree with what they are trying to do. I'd like to see a reduction in max amount of NIQ players.

Not sure about the setting back Irish rugby bit because Wales won a grand slam with abysmal HC form.

People need to remember too, this HC success won't last forever. We may have got 4 of last 6 but it could easily happen we dont win one for a few years. It's that fickle a competition. The Heineken Cup is a great tournament and I love it, but it's not the be all and end all when it comes to success for our national team. It helps absolutely with top quality opposition and raising the provinces profile in the European game but I don't think there will be a link between a trophy-less Irish team and HC-less,even semi-final, province in the same way there isn't one between a HC winning team and a 3rd placed Ireland.

The panel on RTE summed it all up for me today post-game, they were spot on in nearly everything they said, although I'm sure I forgot something stupid said.

I agree that the HEC isn't the be all, end all but we have a problem in Irish Rugby that we base national selection on how players go in the HEC. If we begin to struggle in the HEC then I fear that our head coach(whoever it may be) will stick with tried and tested players rather than giving youth a chance.

irishbucsfan

I've always been in favour of the IRFUs recommendations. I would definitely change some things but the underlying idea is to have a higher proportion of Irish Qualified players, which is a great thing.

I have no issue with putting strict restrictions on NIQ. I just wish they were allowed sign more than one contract, as some great NIQs have contributed so much to Irish provinces off the field. Look at Johann Muller right now. That is the only thing I would change.

Leinster are almost IQ + Nacewa. And behind Nacewa there's Dave Kearney, Andrew Conway and more. Ulster look like they could get there with all the players they're producing all the time. Munster would be utterly screwed without WDP and Botha, but apart from their props they look to be doing well (why sign an NIQ ahead of Earls though I've no idea).