Congrats to JP

UrbanSea

I know Jonjo, AP and JP aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I'm delighted for JP.

He puts so much into the game without getting a whole lot in return. He genuinely loves racing and keeps so many trainers' yards ticking over in England and Ireland that otherwise would probably be bare.

It was a disappointing climax no doubt after all the talk of a Long Run v Kauto epic battle, but I don't think anyone can begrudge him this win in his first ever Gold Cup.

Nulty

They're my cup of tea! Absolutely delighted for the team. Jonjo is an absolute legend. Best result in my book. Can't believe they did it really. Looks a terrible gold cup on ratings of the race.

UrbanSea

It's not just the Irish 3 milers who must be poor given that The Giant Bolster was rated 160 and traded 3/1 on in running

Colonel Sanders

McCoy is the king!

I was horrified at the thought of The Giant Bolster winning a Gold Cup coming to climb the hill. O'Leary is surely at home rubbing his hands at the thought of next years Gold Cup. He could have at least 3 major chances

mdwexford

AP and JP definitely deserve it.

Not that big a Jonjo fan.

Im in disbelief, need a stiff drink.

fits

Brilliant ride from AP

RichieLawlor

Delighted for AP and JP and JJ

What has happened to Long run though, where is the horse that won last years King George and Gold cup.

Morgans

Winning a Gold Cup takes a LOT out of a horse. It shows how privilged everyone was to see Kauto Star back competitive year after year.

Colonel Sanders

Bellvano makes it a day to remember for JP

Ride of the century from Carberry too.

d-gal

Delighted for JP.

Very poor Gold Cup tho, if a fit Last Instalment (know not a Gold Cup horse) went into that race he would have troubled the lot of them purely on his jumping ability.

Fair play to AP, no other jockey would have won that race on Synchronised, he bet him over the line, magnificent performance!

ipitydafool

Fair play to JP, great to see him win after all he has put into NH, if it wasnt for him there would be plenty of trainers out of business. It says alot for today's race when both bobs worth and sir des champs are co-favourites for next years race.

meriwether

UrbanSea wrote: »

I know Jonjo, AP and JP aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I'm delighted for JP.

He puts so much into the game without getting a whole lot in return. He genuinely loves racing and keeps so many trainers' yards ticking over in England and Ireland that otherwise would probably be bare.

It was a disappointing climax no doubt after all the talk of a Long Run v Kauto epic battle, but I don't think anyone can begrudge him this win in his first ever Gold Cup.

Anyone who doesn't like the AP cup of tea should stop watching horse racing.

I'm delighted for him, delight tempered with despair for my finances.

Easy come easy go though.

UrbanSea

Joy turns to pain today. I know Synchronized's loss will be particularly hard for JP.


You really have to feel for owners of the horses who are put down, any day but particularly the National.

It must be terrible to have the excitement and the anxiousness of the build up to the race, only to leave the course without their beloved horse.

Tigerandahalf

Very sad. I was only reading a piece this morning about another horse and the same happened after winning the Gold Cup. I can't remember the name.
That fence is very tricky. There is quite a drop when the horse lands.

Da Shins Kelly

I have the utmost respect for JP, Johnjo and Ap, but I really am at a loss as to why they decided to run the horse today. Such a shame.

Morgans

If he had run him here and not in the Gold Cup, no one would have commented.

UrbanSea

That's racing. Had the horse have won no one would be questioning it, nor were many broadcasting that view in the build up. It's easy to say looking back.

Tigerandahalf

To be fair to them if he didn't win the Gold Cup people wouldn't mention it. He is not a high class horse. He won a poor Gold Cup. He is a Welsh national winner.

shy-tall-knight

UrbanSea wrote: »

Joy turns to pain today. I know Synchronized's loss will be particularly hard for JP.


You really have to feel for owners of the horses who are put down, any day but particularly the National.

It must be terrible to have the excitement and the anxiousness of the build up to the race, only to leave the course without their beloved horse.

Particularly hard how? He's seen enough of them come and go at this stage. I feel much more sorry for the young lad's and lass's that work with the horse every day who really develop a bond with the animal.
I'm just disgusted that they ran him, the greed of Jonjo never fails to surprise me, the horse did not look well before hand and the whole debacle going down to the start gave me a seriously uneasy feeling about what was ahead. Horse should have been out in a field enjoying a nice bit of sun on his back, was what he deserved after his achievements this season. Won't be the last time jonjo races one to death

UrbanSea

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Particularly hard how? He's seen enough of them come and go at this stage. I feel much more sorry for the young lad's and lass's that work with the horse every day who really develop a bond with the animal.
I'm just disgusted that they ran him, the greed of Jonjo never fails to surprise me, the horse did not look well before hand and the whole debacle going down to the start gave me a seriously uneasy feeling about what was ahead. Horse should have been out in a field enjoying a nice bit of sun on his back, was what he deserved after his achievements this season. Won't be the last time jonjo races one to death

Because he was his first GC winner and it was obvious that he was the apple of his eye.

''Races one to death''. He didn't break down from exhaustion having been run into the ground.

Morgans

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Particularly hard how? He's seen enough of them come and go at this stage. I feel much more sorry for the young lad's and lass's that work with the horse every day who really develop a bond with the animal.
I'm just disgusted that they ran him, the greed of Jonjo never fails to surprise me, the horse did not look well before hand and the whole debacle going down to the start gave me a seriously uneasy feeling about what was ahead. Horse should have been out in a field enjoying a nice bit of sun on his back, was what he deserved after his achievements this season. Won't be the last time jonjo races one to death

Tripe. The horse jumped four more fences after he fell with McCoy. Horse was fine and happy doing what he did.

Da Shins Kelly

UrbanSea wrote: »

That's racing. Had the horse have won no one would be questioning it, nor were many broadcasting that view in the build up. It's easy to say looking back.

I don't know. I didn't feel good about it from the beginning, and the events before the race started were unnerving.

Bob the Seducer

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Very sad. I was only reading a piece this morning about another horse and the same happened after winning the Gold Cup. I can't remember the name.
That fence is very tricky. There is quite a drop when the horse lands.

I'd say it was Alverton. Jonjo won the Gold Cup as a jockey with him in 79, the horse took a fatal fall in the Grand National the same year with Jonjo on board again.

shy-tall-knight

UrbanSea wrote: »

Because he was his first GC winner and it was obvious that he was the apple of his eye.

''Races one to death''. He didn't break down from exhaustion having been run into the ground.

Doesn't/didn't seem too obvious to me. I'm aware he didn't break down from exhaustion, I was suggesting that the horse should not have been in the race in the first place given the hard race he had just 4 weeks ago. There's a reason horses don't attempt to do a gold cup/national double, it's plain madness. The only reason Golden Miller did it all those years ago was because he had a bonkers owner. Even recent GC winners running in the bowl have dreadful records, Denman was lucky to escape with his life a few years ago here. I think if this horse wasn't with Jonjo then he wouldn't have been racing here today. That's just my opinion of the man.

UrbanSea

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I don't know. I didn't feel good about it from the beginning, and the events before the race started were unnerving.

I can see your point. Though the horse was fine, he hadn't bolted far, and it was clearly shown he was checked by a vet prior to his participation.

We often see horses get worked up at the start, though go on to run well, it isn't necessarily a sign that the horse is wrong. Only yesterday Finian's Rainbow went through a rail before the race. He went on to win, though the majority of the public who will use this argument in Synchronized's case will not know this.

shy-tall-knight

Morgans wrote: »

Tripe. The horse jumped four more fences after he fell with McCoy. Horse was fine and happy doing what he did.

Natural pack instinct of the animal.

UrbanSea

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Doesn't/didn't seem too obvious to me. I'm aware he didn't break down from exhaustion, I was suggesting that the horse should not have been in the race in the first place given the hard race he had just 4 weeks ago. There's a reason horses don't attempt to do a gold cup/national double, it's plain madness. The only reason Golden Miller did it all those years ago was because he had a bonkers owner. Even recent GC winners running in the bowl have dreadful records, Denman was lucky to escape with his life a few years ago here. I think if this horse wasn't with Jonjo then he wouldn't have been racing here today. That's just my opinion of the man.

Plenty of horses run in the GC and then go on to run in the National, it's generally seen as a prep run. Why should you stop a horse who won the gold cup from running and yet let other horses who ran in the same race run? Just because a horse doesn't win doesn't mean it hasn't had a hard race.

Morgans

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Natural pack instinct of the animal.

I understand. I watched a replay of the race there, for my own benefit on Sportinglife. From the RUK coverage you can see Synchronised break down, riderless. One riderless horse refused the fence before and Arbor Supreme almsot refused, unseating his rider. I know its easy to throw blame around these times, but synchonised's death was an unfortunate accident. A sad end.

mdwexford

God some annoying posts here.

Im not Jonjos biggest fan but some of the comments here are ridiculous.

Morgans

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Doesn't/didn't seem too obvious to me. I'm aware he didn't break down from exhaustion, I was suggesting that the horse should not have been in the race in the first place given the hard race he had just 4 weeks ago. There's a reason horses don't attempt to do a gold cup/national double, it's plain madness. The only reason Golden Miller did it all those years ago was because he had a bonkers owner. Even recent GC winners running in the bowl have dreadful records, Denman was lucky to escape with his life a few years ago here. I think if this horse wasn't with Jonjo then he wouldn't have been racing here today. That's just my opinion of the man.

It was nothing to do with the owner. Getting facts straight about these things would be good. When Golden Miller was winning the Gold Cup it was a prep for the National which was the only race worth winning in the NH calendar. The Gold Cup was a good race but in no sense a championship race.

The main reason why Gold Cup horses havent run in the Grand National - which is worth more - is the handicap. Gold Cup winners have top weight.
Because of the clamour of those who want to make the race safer, those at the top of the weights are given a concession to run. It means that the standard of the horses racing is higher and fewer no hopers.

shy-tall-knight

UrbanSea wrote: »

Plenty of horses run in the GC and then go on to run in the National, it's generally seen as a prep run. Why should you stop a horse who won the gold cup from running and yet let other horses who ran in the same race run? Just because a horse doesn't win doesn't mean it hasn't had a hard race.

Well it kind of does. That Cheltenham hill and final couple furlongs even can leave a mark and when a horse is all out to win it, I strongly feel and plenty of recent evidence would suggest this that it leaves a mark. It's different for the likes of Mon mome, midnight club etc beacuse realistically there are unlikely to win and therefore aren't stretched to the maximum, there are, as you say out for a prep and if they run into some place prizemoney then thats a bonus.
However with the recent winners/runners up they have all done pretty poorly due in no small part to the fact that they were being ridden for all they were worth just a few weeks previously. Kauto, Denman Imperial Commander and one of my all time favs, exotic dancer who unfortunately lost his life at Aintree after a tough race in the GC.
Hopefully this illustrates my point better. Also I think it's worth noting that Nicholls has learned his lesson, after Kauto at P'Town last year he's on record as saying it is very unlikely he would run a GC horse of his at Aintree that same year. At least some trainers have morals.

IrishGeordie

To be honest, it was a great day out for everyone. Even banked a couple of quid so all happy!

mdwexford

Hedgehunter and Royal Auclair have both ran crackers in the Gold Cup and National back to back though.

Colonel Sanders

Sunnyhillboy had a hard race in a 3m handicap at the festival yet ran here & nobody is criticising connections for running him.

Syncronised was "well in" after his gold cup run, and I assume working well at home. I'm very confident connections put the horses welfare first. He was working well enjoying what he was bred to do, hence he ran.

I'm sure all connections from owner down to the most junior stable lad in Jonjo's stable are devastated over this. Not to sound calous, but that is unfortunately part & parcel of the NH game.

Da Shins Kelly

The main issue I had with Synchronized running in the race is that he's not the most fluent jumper I've ever seen, and given the nature of the fences in the Grand National, I just had serious doubts about him from the moment it was announced he would run. I just didn't believe for a second that he'd make it around.

ipitydafool

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Well it kind of does. That Cheltenham hill and final couple furlongs even can leave a mark and when a horse is all out to win it, I strongly feel and plenty of recent evidence would suggest this that it leaves a mark. It's different for the likes of Mon mome, midnight club etc beacuse realistically there are unlikely to win and therefore aren't stretched to the maximum, there are, as you say out for a prep and if they run into some place prizemoney then thats a bonus.
However with the recent winners/runners up they have all done pretty poorly due in no small part to the fact that they were being ridden for all they were worth just a few weeks previously. Kauto, Denman Imperial Commander and one of my all time favs, exotic dancer who unfortunately lost his life at Aintree after a tough race in the GC.
Hopefully this illustrates my point better. Also I think it's worth noting that Nicholls has learned his lesson, after Kauto at P'Town last year he's on record as saying it is very unlikely he would run a GC horse of his at Aintree that same year. At least some trainers have morals.

The really sad thing about what happened today is that it brings people like you out of the woodwork claiming all the rubbish you have been saying. Horses have run in the gold cup and then onto the grand national for generations and will continue to do so. As already alluded to, one of the reasons alot of gold cup winners dont go on to race in the national is because of their handicap mark. Given with how the handicapper has started to treat some of the higher rated horses in the race it was seen that synchronised was capable of competing of top weight and you can be absolutely certain the horse would not have been run if it wasnt 100 percent for it. It was a tragic accident but it does happen in NH racing and im glad the horse did not suffer for long. On a day when alot of people who dont follow racing alot tuned in it was even more so unfortunate. Katie walsh winning on seabass could have done so much for the PR of horse racing

Sammo13

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

The main issue I had with Synchronized running in the race is that he's not the most fluent jumper I've ever seen, and given the nature of the fences in the Grand National, I just had serious doubts about him from the moment it was announced he would run. I just didn't believe for a second that he'd make it around.

Totally agree, I was a big fan of the little fella, runs his heart out, backed him in the GC and he kept losing ground at his fences and then finding more on the level. For the world of me I couldn't see him jump the national fences, but I can understand them running him in it, well in at the weights etc..

We gave out about Best Mate being pampered and running 3 times a year and he collapsed and died, now poor Synchronized dies which can only be called an accident... RIP 'you one tough SOB'...

Poor ole Synchronised, such a plucky horse, he had the air of a 5'10 15 stone boxer aiming to be heavy weight champion (he succeeded in that), 'tis sad that he won't see out his days pampered somewhere

pugw

ipitydafool wrote: »

The really sad thing about what happened today is that it brings people like you out of the woodwork claiming all the rubbish you have been saying. Horses have run in the gold cup and then onto the grand national for generations and will continue to do so. As already alluded to, one of the reasons alot of gold cup winners dont go on to race in the national is because of their handicap mark. Given with how the handicapper has started to treat some of the higher rated horses in the race it was seen that synchronised was capable of competing of top weight and you can be absolutely certain the horse would not have been run if it wasnt 100 percent for it. It was a tragic accident but it does happen in NH racing and im glad the horse did not suffer for long. On a day when alot of people who dont follow racing alot tuned in it was even more so unfortunate. Katie walsh winning on seabass could have done so much for the PR of horse racing

+1 Fair play that someone is talking a bit of sense.

"Won't be the last time jonjo races one to death"
"the greed of Jonjo never fails to surprise me"
@ shy-tall-knight, how are things up there on the high moral ground? God your some "expert", if he had won there wouldnt be any sign of you on spouting this crap! You should be ashamed of yourself casting aspersions on Jonjo's character after all he has been through and contributed to racing. The risks associated with the national are well known, by your logic every trainer/owner is being negligent by taking a chance and running their horse in it! Jonjo O'niell would not have raced the horse if he thought he wasnt up to, doing anything else would be shooting himself in the foot. Todays events are bad enough without you talking sh*t!

Juwwi

The thing is tho I did'nt hear or read anywhere that anyone had any concerns about any other horse not being suited to jumping the fences other than Synchronised.

People were saying he was'nt suited even before he became the Gold Cup winner.

hucklebuck

I did not even consider backing him today I was concerned by his jumping and the Gold Cup exersions.

LOL at "he got loose cause he did not want to run" JFK style theory.

Did anyone find it odd when Mc Coy gave him a look at the first and he started backing off? I was worried about him after that.

Juwwi

hucklebuck wrote: »

Did anyone find it odd when Mc Coy gave him a look at the first and he started backing off? I was worried about him after that.

Jasus I saw that aswell.

It was like he was startled by the fence.

He ran on and jumped fences on his own tho when he could of just ran around them.

ArmaniJeanss

Morgans wrote: »

The main reason why Gold Cup horses havent run in the Grand National - which is worth more - is the handicap. Gold Cup winners have top weight.

Small technical point.
Grand National is an early closing race with no weight changes so in theory you can get into it low in the weights even after a Gold Cup win.

Agree with everything else though. and a quite tilting thread.

Morgans

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Small technical point.
Grand National is an early closing race with no weight changes so in theory you can get into it low in the weights even after a Gold Cup win.

Agree with everything else though. and a quite tilting thread.

Few gold cup winners or pretenders are rated lower than 160. I suppose it depends what you mean by low as well. While its possible that something like The Giant Bolster could have gone for the race off a lower weight, he is a huge exception. The more I think about it, connections missed a trick with him.

ArmaniJeanss

Morgans wrote: »

Few gold cup winners or pretenders are rated lower than 160. I suppose it depends what you mean by low as well. While its possible that something like The Giant Bolster could have gone for the race off a lower weight, he is a huge exception. The more I think about it, connections missed a trick with him.

Yep, it would take a fairly exceptional set of circumstances to get in below 11st or anything like that.

mr.jingle

There was a lot of talk about Synchronized and his not so fluent jumping style and it was unfortunate he didn't get round but there was also the same talk about his stablemate Sunnyhillboy having the same problem.

I'd imagine if you changed those horse's around in the race and there finishing positions we wouldn't be questioning anybody about why they were run. It's a loss when any horse dies and it is doubly disappointing for the Gold Cup winner to unfortunately die during the race but that is unfortunately the bad part of NH racing.

The horse was in the form of his life and connections may never have had him in that sort of form again so they were well within there rights to let him have his go. I'm sure a stable like Jonjo's have national fences and they were schooled over them and if they were struggling at home then no chance would they go ahead and let them run in the National.

hucklebuck

Ah ****e, Neptune Collonges was retired :mad:

Love the horse, he gave me many good days and was looking forward to see him run after this win.

shy-tall-knight

Seemed to have rubbed a few people up the wrong way on here, apologies for that. I was feeling quite aggrieved in the aftermath of the race the other day and made some rather unmeasured comments particularly about Jonjo, which I regret. He has of course contributed so much to racing that few will manage to emulate.
That said, I still don't think Synchronised should have been run for reasons that have all already been suggested;proximity to the GC, questionable suitability of his jumping style for Aintree and then one must consider how much schooling over Aintree style fences could he have got in that short intervening period after such a hard race in the GC. Ultimately whether it was right or wrong to run him nobody on here can really say for sure as none of us are privy to the horses prep, you either believe the trainer when he says he's "in the form of his life" or you don't but as a general point I wouldn't go taking what a trainer says to the media(and by this i mean any trainer) as gospel. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter now as what is done is done, but hopefully some lessons can be learned.
Also, I see the point made about the weight being one of the major factors in why GC horses haven't gone for the National and I accept that but would add that it isn't or hasn't been the only reason. Weight hasn't prevented GC standard horses carrying welter burdens in other handicap chases, I think the proximity of the races and the nature and increased risks involved in running a horse in the National compared to a conventional race shouldn't be disregarded as reasons as to why connections of GC winners have tended to swerve it. Obviously it is different for horses using the GC as a pipe opener for the GN, but I don't think that is really comparing like with like.



That's really my 2cents on it, don't think I'll go back into the woodwork just yet, looking forward to Punchestown too much;)

Morgans

shy-tall-knight wrote: »

Also, I see the point made about the weight being one of the major factors in why GC horses haven't gone for the National and I accept that but would add that it isn't or hasn't been the only reason. Weight hasn't prevented GC standard horses carrying welter burdens in other handicap chases, I think the proximity of the races and the nature and increased risks involved in running a horse in the National compared to a conventional race shouldn't be disregarded as reasons as to why connections of GC winners have tended to swerve it. Obviously it is different for horses using the GC as a pipe opener for the GN, but I don't think that is really comparing like with like.

This reads like you want to compare only those examples that suit your argument. Havent actually rebutted anything contrary.

A hint why it was more likely for a Gold Cup runner to run in the Grand National this year. There were four weeks between cheltenham and Aintree.

Of course, McCoy could have ridden the runner-up in the race. Would have had to sweat a pound. You can be assured that Synchronised was ready to run.

Its funny the two most dangerous falls Ive seen over the weekend were over hurdles - Ruby on Zarkandar and Nathan Cook at Ffos Las. I think some people are unwilling to see the opposite arguement.